At least NetJets has money to sponsor yacht races

[FAcFriend]

El,

I thought the strike might happen this summer. If you guys are released on May 20th- 30 days later you can strike. When does the strike vote come out?

Am I wrong?

 

[El Chupacabra]

Yes we can strike 30 days later... but I would think everything in the book would be tried before that.

Also I been trying to Christmas off for years.... This may be only chance. Ho Ho Ho.

been told not to expect a release... but who knows...

 

[G4dude]

Before about 2 weeks ago, I considered a strike a remote possibility. Now I see a trainwreck. A strike followed by everybody getting fired.

I agree. What an ugly situation,

 

[FracCapt]

To walk away on a strike means that one is prepared mentally and financially to say, "I can walk away from this job". It means more to the individual to stand for better condidtions than to continue on the same path with sub-standard conditions.

Maybe mentally....but how many of the pilots do you really believe are financially secure enough to weather a strike more than a few days? The pay isn't good enough for most guys with families in their first few years to put much money away each month. These are the people I really feel sorry for in the event of a strike. The ones that can't provide for their families without working, and can't work(for NJA at least) without becoming a scab. They'll be faced with some tough choices, but hopefully they're able to find another job(flying or not) to hold them over in the short term.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Maybe mentally....but how many of the pilots do you really believe are financially secure enough to weather a strike more than a few days? The pay isn't good enough for most guys with families in their first few years to put much money away each month. These are the people I really feel sorry for in the event of a strike. The ones that can't provide for their families without working, and can't work(for NJA at least) without becoming a scab. They'll be faced with some tough choices, but hopefully they're able to find another job(flying or not) to hold them over in the short term.

Thank God for Strike Pay from the Teamsters then. Most I have talked to are fed up with aviation in general. Strike Pay will pay for a good chunk of the bills... that coupled with other funds saved from various sources and you're looking at an extended withdrawal of services. The group is a bit more prepared than you give them credit.

"If this job folds, it folds" is what I hear quite frequently on the line. In fact, Boisture himself told a pilot just that "if this company fails, it fails" not too terribly long ago.

There seems to be no rush to find some other crap job to fill the void. The pay is just that bad here that most NJA pilots would rather find a non-flying job that allowed them to remain closer to home than start the cycle over again.

 

[h25b]

One last thing. I have no problem with you, (Gulstream 200) or any other 135 pilots. If you don't support us, that's fine. It is very tiring listening to guys like h25b b!tch about fractional operators while at the same time having no problems flying sell-off trips for them.

One more time, so read this slow since you can't think as fast as you whine.

I don't fly NetJets sell-offs. I think it's due to the fact that other aircraft on the certificate are types that NetJets operates (i.e. Hawker 800, Beechjet 400A, etc..) But I still can't understand why anyone SHOULD have a problem flying a sell-off. It's business man, company needs extra lift on jet airplane, company calls charter operator and charters aircraft... It has worked this way forever, nothing new. The only thing new here is the idiots like yourself coming along with scab-listing threats.

Which brings me to my next question. Isn't this practice allowed for under your current labor agreement ? YES OR NO (and don't give me the old, "well we allowed for it as a good faith gesture to the company"). Well the answer is yes and if your union didn't see it as a potential area for abuse by your company I really can't feel sorry for you now. Fact is that your union's short-sightedness is biting you in the rear and it's not the 135 charter outfit's responsibility to bail you out of it now.

 

[FAcFriend]

The only thing new here is the idiots like yourself coming along with scab-listing threats.

In defense of the individual pilots at NJA, the whole scab issue seems to be bigger than this union local. The teamsters, headed by Jimmy Hoffa Jr., is the one making this scab call. He has set the standard, the NJ guys are just following the teamsters ruling.

We all know what a honorable family Jimmy comes from and I am sure his intentions are the best for everyone in the industry

 

[h25b]

The only thing new here is the idiots like yourself coming along with scab-listing threats.

In defense of the individual pilots at NJA, the whole scab issue seems to be bigger than this union local. The teamsters, headed by Jimmy Hoffa Jr., is the one making this scab call. He has set the standard, the NJ guys are just following the teamsters ruling.

We all know what a honorable family Jimmy comes from and I am sure his intentions are the best for everyone in the industry

I'll take that statement assuming it's laced with sarcasm... That's probably one of the more ridiculous claims made on these boards yet. "Don't shoot the messenger!" Talk about following your friends off a cliff !!!

 

[El Chupacabra]

The only thing new here is the idiots like yourself coming along with scab-listing threats.

In defense of the individual pilots at NJA, the whole scab issue seems to be bigger than this union local. The teamsters, headed by Jimmy Hoffa Jr., is the one making this scab call. He has set the standard, the NJ guys are just following the teamsters ruling.

We all know what a honorable family Jimmy comes from and I am sure his intentions are the best for everyone in the industry

I think you have information that I do not have access to. I assumed there was something to it because so many people are posting this stuff about 135 vendors. But the information sent to me by the union does not say this. It says not to provoke the vendor pilots because we have to understand they have no union protections. It says these calls we be made appropriate to the situation.

It does not say what I have been reading. And it does say NOT to do what I have been reading some of our folks doing which is why I have been hinting to STFU. You are causing a mass hysteria.

I get the same emails everybody else gets... What did I miss?



Oh btw. I voted for Jimmy twice. I think this is a case of "You listen to Jimmi, but you don't hear Jimmi"

 

[FAcFriend]

The only thing new here is the idiots like yourself coming along with scab-listing threats.

i did not say this. I am not the type to call people idiots.

check your pm's

 

[h25b]

The only thing new here is the idiots like yourself coming along with scab-listing threats.

i did not say this. I am not the type to call people idiots.

check your pm's

Didn't mean you, referring to the likes of people like "starman" and a few others... And yes, I am the type... Although rarely when I feel it's appropriate.

 

[Lrjet55]

Let me tell you a little story about NetJets and sponsoring the yatch races.

A pilot I met this week while at recurrent is actually really good. He has his own boat, made several magazines and has won many prestigious races. He put together a very nice proposal and submitted to NJA. He was not so courteously informed that NJA was not interested.

Now, NJA is in the boat sponsoring business provided it is not one of their own pilots who, in case you havent heard, are money hungry, tyring to shut the company down people.

Typical

 

[FLYLOW22]

Which brings me to my next question. Isn't this practice allowed for under your current labor agreement ? YES OR NO (and don't give me the old, "well we allowed for it as a good faith gesture to the company").

Outside of a strike, YES. The use of ATCO vendors is authorized by the CBA during non-strike ("during extremely busy periods") times so long as it does not reduce the number of NJA pilot jobs etc. With some days exceeding 35% sell offs, the contract section is being abused.

During a strike there is a line drawn in the sand. Those who will cross that line (NJA pilots or otherwise) will be delt with on a case-by-case basis acording to the SCAB policy.

This type of scenario has been researched and several examples have been found to illustrate the NJA Teamsters SCAB policy.

Ask a UPS pilot about contract freight pilots moving UPS freight (which is also allowed on a regulated basis outside of a strike) during a UPS Pilot strike. Those pilots flying UPS frieght during a UPS pilot strike are SCABS.

 

[h25b]

Outside of a strike, YES. The use of ATCO vendors is authorized by the CBA during non-strike ("during extremely busy periods") times so long as it does not reduce the number of NJA pilot jobs etc. With some days exceeding 35% sell offs, the contract section is being abused.

Thanks... So to paraphrase your union screwed-up and specifically allowed sell-offs. Now on other threads your pilots are saying how stupid management has over sold these Marquis Cards dramatically increasing a/c utilization whereby supposedly upsetting the "owners". Doesn't this qualify as an "extremely busy" situation ?

Bottom line the union sold you down the river on this one and didn't see it as a problem and now it's time for you to screw the 135 guys (who you obviously had no problem with before).. Makes a lot of sense to me ???

During a strike there is a line drawn in the sand. Those who will cross that line (NJA pilots or otherwise) will be delt with on a case-by-case basis acording to the SCAB policy.

NOONE cares about being "delt with" ... Lots of luck to you, you're going to need it with that attitude. Cooler (smarter) minds in your membership are already trying to separate themselves from people like yourself. Just what you need going in to a labor dispute, division amongst your ranks... Now if I may refer you to just one of those (smarter/cooler) pilots... See below...

We expect all flight departments to recognize our strike but the SCAB label is reserved for those select few that decide to fly a QS tail during a strike. It is also reserved for any NetJet pilot flying any NetJet trip under ANY tail number during a strike, regardless of WHEN he/she finds out it is a NetJets trip.


I do not know who is started this but as far as I can tell it is just NOT TRUE. The above is the last word I ever got on the issue and I get allthe same emails everybody else gets... its about two weeks old. To me this means only NJ pilots flying vendor trips would qualify.

Now someone will probably pm me because I am not suppose to post stuff from ASAP emails... but somebody has to put a stop to this.

If I am not correct then its in something I never heard or saw except on this message board.

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You guys better get it together soon, you can't even figure out who to threaten, pathetic (not to mention VERY unTeamster-like)... Where's "netjetwife" when you need her ? Someone must have muzzled her ... Where are you girl ??? Again, see below...

May 11, 2005 @ 1821

The timing of your question is good, as far as getting the latest information to come from the leadership of the NJ pilots. Just today, a clarification was made to settle the issue of mixed messages coming from the pilot group. The problem is that the discussion...probably in response to a question like yours....took on momentum before the IBT had given Local 1108 an official policy position. The first posts (from a few weeks ago?) on the subject were the right answer. As hard as it is to hear ( it isn't easy to post, either), if charter pilots fly NJ owners/px in a trip ARRANGED BY NJA then they are considered to be flying struck work, and will be viewed as Scabs. This will apply to ANY pilot flying a NJ transaction during the strike. The ONLY EXCEPTION is for those cases in which the OWNER has made personal/separate arrangements not involving NJA.

Recognizing that these are tough times for ALL involved,
Netjetwife

 

[FLYLOW22]

Thanks... So to paraphrase your union screwed-up and specifically allowed sell-offs.

No. Please don't paraphrase. The language is quite clear in the CBA. "Extremely busy situations" (short term need) is the verbage used followed by "not to be used to reduce jobs of NJA pilots" (long term effect). Sell offs were not as commonplace until Boisture arrived. 35% daily sell-off rates are excessive and not in compliance with the CBA.

The policy is what it is. El Chupacabra's version is not correct. The SCAB policy definition does include any pilot flying a NetJets transaction during a NetJets Pilot strike. Period. I'm typing this in a very calm manner.

I do have my own feelings on the matter but I have not shared those. There will most likely be more information on the policy through official channels in the future.

It really doesn't matter who or how the policy is debated at this point. It is what it is... and it's in place.

Let's hope it doesn't become a policy needed. Not fun for anyone.


P.S. The "cooler, smarter minds" comment above is union busting language meant to divide and concour if I ever heard it. It's Friday... go to happy hour and leave Bridgeway for the weekend.