Astar Pilots March again, ABX pilots???

[flyinboxes]

I can find no fault in what UPS is doing...it's simply called business. When UPS bought Menlo, did you Astar boys go picket for them?

I lay the blame squarely at the feet of DHL alone. I also seem to remember many Astar people vigourously defending DHL and saying things like "that's how DHL has always done it, ABX should just get in step...etc". That worked pretty well, huh?

I don't think they (emery) ever had a picket to go to. If they had, we would have gone.
Anyway, what in the world are you boys doing over there? To go out so quietly must be sickening.

 

[ABXbooger]

laying the blame at ABX's feet now, huh?

pathetic

If you guys had never come to town, Airborne would still be here, and you would still be on the street.

 

[hvydriver]

laying the blame at ABX's feet now, huh?

pathetic

If you guys had never come to town, Airborne would still be here, and you would still be on the street.

Perhaps I worded it poorly, booger. What I should have said is if Joe and his BOD had elected to accept Astar's offer, perhaps this would have turned out differently. It seems the drum DPWN likes to beat is the "two airline" problem they have. Of course we know that's not their real problem. As to you guys being here and us not if the merger of DHL and ABF hadn't happened, I'd say there is a 50/50 shot that either of us would have been here. Most likely, we'd still be a small airline flying international product out of CVG. We'll never know that now. Believe me, we didn't want the DHL/ABF deal any more than you guys did. I just don't get why Joe is still in charge at ATSG. Do the stockholders have no power at all? If my stock had gone from 8 bucks to .90, I'd be pretty ticked about it.

 

[fob727]

Booger....what a dumba$$ statement!

 

[ABXbooger]

What's so dumb about it?

Joe accepts Astars offer and all that would have changed is ABX shareholders get a little wealthier (which I wouldn't have minded) and we would all be looking for work.

Plain and simple: DHL had no business trying to run a "express" sort, as they have proved. If they had simply restickered everything that said Airborne Express to DHL and left it alone, at least for a while they would still be in business, and thriving. But as we all know, they didn't and they aren't.

FOB, sad to say it, but short of DHL simply not having done anything at all, "your" company (DHL) cannot compete here in the US. They would have done some sort of the same thing eventually.

Again, why blame UPS? DHL evaporated a couple companies worth of market share. Not ABX, not Astar, DHL.

 

[penguin22]

What I should have said is if Joe and his BOD had elected to accept Astar's offer, perhaps this would have turned out differently. It seems the drum DPWN likes to beat is the "two airline" problem they have.

I don't buy it. That's just their excuse for going to UPS. If having one airline would've 'solved' their problem, they could've simply dumped ABX's contract when Dasburg's 'offer' didn't work. Then put all their money into Astar and make it their one airline.
I don't think that's what the Germans wanted.

I just don't get why Joe is still in charge at ATSG. Do the stockholders have no power at all? If my stock had gone from 8 bucks to .90, I'd be pretty ticked about it.

There I'll agree with you. The Board of Directors have fiduciary responsibility to the stockholders. They are the ones who can fire him. Joe of course stacked the BOD with his own lackeys. But at some point the BOD will be forced to something.

 

[fob727]

Writing a letter to the CEO or board of directors explaining your concern is one thing, but picketing a competing company's HQ is quite another. In public and in front of the media, you are attacking UPS for destroying thousands of jobs and tarnishing their brand/image. UPS employs about 440,000 worldwide. Every worker in the US, whether part-time or full, receives full medical care. The drivers, pilots, mechanics, and dispatchers are among the highest paid in the nation within their fields of expertise. UPS is a good corporate citizen with a large charitable arm. Your attack upon UPS is misdirected.

BBB-As one who was involved in the picketing, that is exactly what we were trying to do....tarnish.

Let's see....within the past few years, UPS has been involved in the loss of around 13,000 jobs in Ohio.(DHL and Emery)

Real charitable!

 

[Big Beer Belly]

BBB-As one who was involved in the picketing, that is exactly what we were trying to do....tarnish.

Let's see....within the past few years, UPS has been involved in the loss of around 13,000 jobs in Ohio.(DHL and Emery)

Real charitable!

fob... it's called CAPITALISM. The company that builds a better mouse trap grows and employs more worker bees to build more traps and improve the design.

Companies are not welfare agencies. They do not exist to provide you employment. You and your other picket-toting buddies apparently do not understand the free market.

Perhaps this is why most airlines prefer college educated pilots?


BBB


PS If you've ever run a small business, or been in a management position at a small business, you'd be exceedingly familiar with these very basic principles of free market and capitalism.

 

[fob727]

Perhaps this is why most airlines prefer college educated pilots?

Oh, Mr. UPS pilot, I'm sorry! Did I and my "picket-toting buddies" hit a nerve?

Let me look again....I believe I have 2 degrees and neither one says basket weaving.

I guess your form of CAPITALISM is different from mine because I include social responsibility- less we all become crack dealers. My form of CAPITALISM creates jobs or there is no one to buy the "better mouse trap".

Do you think the "charitable arm" of UPS will donate any of the $10bil. to the ILN school district, No, I doubt it.

As I said....real charitable.

 

[hvydriver]

I don't buy it. That's just their excuse for going to UPS. If having one airline would've 'solved' their problem, they could've simply dumped ABX's contract when Dasburg's 'offer' didn't work. Then put all their money into Astar and make it their one airline.
I don't think that's what the Germans wanted.
There I'll agree with you. The Board of Directors have fiduciary responsibility to the stockholders. They are the ones who can fire him. Joe of course stacked the BOD with his own lackeys. But at some point the BOD will be forced to something.

Penguin, read my post again. On the two airline thing, I said "Of course we know that's not their problem." It's just their excuse. That's why I wonder if there's more to this "customer/vendor" relationship than meets the eye.

 

[erichartmann]

Penguin, read my post again. On the two airline thing, I said "Of course we know that's not their problem." It's just their excuse. That's why I wonder if there's more to this "customer/vendor" relationship than meets the eye.

And that being the case hvy, I personally think we would all be facing more or less the same prospects we now face had Hete accepted Astar's "informal expression of interest", with a single exception. That exception is that ATSG (& ABX) may survive and some few jobs may be "saved". They won't be what they once were, but they will be better than being unemployed IMHO.

I think Hete recognized very early on that DHL & DPWN had no earthly idea what they were doing here in the US. That being the case his subsequent moves make some sense. They represent an effort, albeit desperate, to distance ABX (and himself) from the clearly impending disaster represented by DHL. I think the run up in fuel prices accelerated the inevitable, may have spoiled Hete's timetable, and jepardized his survival plan, but that doesn't make it foolish for him to have tried.

 

[hvydriver]

And that being the case hvy, I personally think we would all be facing more or less the same prospects we now face had Hete accepted Astar's "informal expression of interest", with a single exception. That exception is that ATSG (& ABX) may survive and some few jobs may be "saved". They won't be what they once were, but they will be better than being unemployed IMHO.

I think Hete recognized very early on that DHL & DPWN had no earthly idea what they were doing here in the US. That being the case his subsequent moves make some sense. They represent an effort, albeit desperate, to distance ABX (and himself) from the clearly impending disaster represented by DHL. I think the run up in fuel prices accelerated the inevitable, may have spoiled Hete's timetable, and jepardized his survival plan, but that doesn't make it foolish for him to have tried.

Could be Eric. Hard to say now though. If that USPS deal comes through for you guys, (rumor mill, I know.) that should go a long way toward keeping jobs for ya'll.

 

[Box-Hauler]

What's so dumb about it?

Joe accepts Astars offer and all that would have changed is ABX shareholders get a little wealthier (which I wouldn't have minded)

Remind me again, WHAT OFFER. There was a B.S. letter written, but I do not remember any offer being presented. An offer would have required a vote. No offer, no vote. It was a red herring, or a white flag, or some type of sham but it was not an offer to buy ABX Air.

Lets all get this straight once and for all, no offer was ever made, only a letter of intent. That letter and 4 quarters will get you a soda out of the machine....

 

[hvydriver]

Remind me again, WHAT OFFER. There was a B.S. letter written, but I do not remember any offer being presented. An offer would have required a vote. No offer, no vote. It was a red herring, or a white flag, or some type of sham but it was not an offer to buy ABX Air.

Lets all get this straight once and for all, no offer was ever made, only a letter of intent. That letter and 4 quarters will get you a soda out of the machine....

Dasburg had been talking with Hete since Jan of that year trying to get him to sell ABXA. That didn't work, so he went public with that "Letter of Interest" or whatever, to try to put pressure on him. Didn't work, got turned down flat, with no counter.

 

[DC8CRIVER]

Remind me again, WHAT OFFER. There was a B.S. letter written, but I do not remember any offer being presented. An offer would have required a vote. No offer, no vote. It was a red herring, or a white flag, or some type of sham but it was not an offer to buy ABX Air.

Lets all get this straight once and for all, no offer was ever made, only a letter of intent. That letter and 4 quarters will get you a soda out of the machine....

Let me get this straight Box; It's your position that Daz and DHL would not have followed through on the "letter of interest" had Hete negotiated a deal with them? I don't think that the ABX board or the ABX shareholders felt that this was a "B.S. letter". These guys don't screw around. you're fooling yourself if you think the letter was a bluff or there was no intent to follow through with this plan.

Moot point now, but we would all be in a very different place if Hete had played ball with Daz. It was the plan that Zumi had come up with to turn the U.S. ops around financially. When Hete insulted them with his response, they went to plan "B".

8

 

[bukakke]

Wait, did Zumi go to jail before or after the offer? Zumi never had a plan except to see how much he and D could syphon off before getting caught........

 

[hvydriver]

He went way after the LOI was made public. Joe had to pick up the 2+ million he paid to the analysts. I'd love to know the reasoning behind their decision to recommend not only no, but we're not even interested in proposing a counter offer. That strikes me as unusual behavior for a public company.

 

[penguin22]

I'd love to know the reasoning behind their decision to recommend not only no, but we're not even interested in proposing a counter offer.

Goldman Sachs is top drawer. Smart and savvy. Lots of inside knowledge of whats really going on in the corporate world.
Maybe they knew something. Maybe they knew that DPWN had plans with UPS all along. Maybe they told Joe if he wants ABX to survive, DON'T get tangled up with DPWN.

 

[hvydriver]

Could all be so P. I agree Goldman Sachs has a good reputation. I just find it strange that there was no explanation to the shareholders for the turn down at the next meeting. Of course, it could be nothing. After working for DHL/Astar/whatever is next, I'm a believer in black helicopters.

 

[penguin22]

But there was an explanation to shareholders. The explanation was that their Wall Street hired help advised against it.

Granted, I'm just speculating here. But If Goldman knew of DPWN's plans, they certainly aren't going to share it with ABX. But ABX can still benefit from that knowledge when they fork out the big bucks to get Goldman's recommendation on Dasburg's "offer".

Hete probably didn't know why Goldman recommended turning it down, but he's smart enough to know not to bet against Goldman Sachs