Astar Pilots March again, ABX pilots???

[767pilot]

Hvy... you have repeatedly dismissed UPS as only offering a small number of pilot jobs. While that may be accurate in the short term, over the next 20 years the number of new hire pilots at Brown "could" be substantial.

Even if it is a small number, perhaps the father of 7-year-old Cameron and 7-month-old Jack would like to be considered for one. The IPA will do what it can to help out, hvydrvr shouldn't get in the way of those actually wanting a job here. Recovering just a few of those "lost american jobs" will be a victory.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

BBB, since UPS has stated that they have no intention of hiring any AAC/ABX pilots, I really don't think there is any hope for any of our guys there.

A few former Astar pilots have already gone to UPS, and I believe there are a couple more "in the pool" but are keeping quiet about it out of respect for their co-workers during these difficult times.

Those who were hired were offered jobs based on merit, not because they marched on UPS' headquarters.

I believe that Mr. Black's comments were meant to convey the fact that Astar/ABX pilots would not be hired "en masse," nor given preferential treatment during any part of the hiring process. No matter what any HR person or union president tells you, that's pretty much how it works in every business...the company fills vacancies with the best candidates available at the time.

I hope that any Astar/ABX guys who "fit the profile" won't be discouraged from applying at UPS when the window opens up.

 

[ABXbooger]

I can find no fault in what UPS is doing...it's simply called business. When UPS bought Menlo, did you Astar boys go picket for them?

I lay the blame squarely at the feet of DHL alone. I also seem to remember many Astar people vigourously defending DHL and saying things like "that's how DHL has always done it, ABX should just get in step...etc". That worked pretty well, huh?

 

[hvydriver]

I can find no fault in what UPS is doing...it's simply called business. When UPS bought Menlo, did you Astar boys go picket for them?

I lay the blame squarely at the feet of DHL alone. I also seem to remember many Astar people vigourously defending DHL and saying things like "that's how DHL has always done it, ABX should just get in step...etc". That worked pretty well, huh?

It would have if you did, but ya didn't. Water under the bridge now, and no longer relevant.

 

[hvydriver]

Even if it is a small number, perhaps the father of 7-year-old Cameron and 7-month-old Jack would like to be considered for one. The IPA will do what it can to help out, hvydrvr shouldn't get in the way of those actually wanting a job here. Recovering just a few of those "lost american jobs" will be a victory.

Thanks for giving me more credit than I deserve. I don't think I'm "getting in anyones way". The odds of getting on with UPS would be akin to hitting powerball for the father of Cameron, who's a friend of mine. We're a small carrier. We all know each other. While I and everyone appreciates Miller asking for preferential interviews for ABX/Astar types, as many of your own have stated, the IPA/UPS relationship isn't exactly wine and roses.

 

[flyinboxes]

I can find no fault in what UPS is doing...it's simply called business. When UPS bought Menlo, did you Astar boys go picket for them?

I lay the blame squarely at the feet of DHL alone. I also seem to remember many Astar people vigourously defending DHL and saying things like "that's how DHL has always done it, ABX should just get in step...etc". That worked pretty well, huh?

I don't think they (emery) ever had a picket to go to. If they had, we would have gone.
Anyway, what in the world are you boys doing over there? To go out so quietly must be sickening.

 

[ABXbooger]

laying the blame at ABX's feet now, huh?

pathetic

If you guys had never come to town, Airborne would still be here, and you would still be on the street.

 

[hvydriver]

laying the blame at ABX's feet now, huh?

pathetic

If you guys had never come to town, Airborne would still be here, and you would still be on the street.

Perhaps I worded it poorly, booger. What I should have said is if Joe and his BOD had elected to accept Astar's offer, perhaps this would have turned out differently. It seems the drum DPWN likes to beat is the "two airline" problem they have. Of course we know that's not their real problem. As to you guys being here and us not if the merger of DHL and ABF hadn't happened, I'd say there is a 50/50 shot that either of us would have been here. Most likely, we'd still be a small airline flying international product out of CVG. We'll never know that now. Believe me, we didn't want the DHL/ABF deal any more than you guys did. I just don't get why Joe is still in charge at ATSG. Do the stockholders have no power at all? If my stock had gone from 8 bucks to .90, I'd be pretty ticked about it.

 

[fob727]

Booger....what a dumba$$ statement!

 

[ABXbooger]

What's so dumb about it?

Joe accepts Astars offer and all that would have changed is ABX shareholders get a little wealthier (which I wouldn't have minded) and we would all be looking for work.

Plain and simple: DHL had no business trying to run a "express" sort, as they have proved. If they had simply restickered everything that said Airborne Express to DHL and left it alone, at least for a while they would still be in business, and thriving. But as we all know, they didn't and they aren't.

FOB, sad to say it, but short of DHL simply not having done anything at all, "your" company (DHL) cannot compete here in the US. They would have done some sort of the same thing eventually.

Again, why blame UPS? DHL evaporated a couple companies worth of market share. Not ABX, not Astar, DHL.

 

[penguin22]

What I should have said is if Joe and his BOD had elected to accept Astar's offer, perhaps this would have turned out differently. It seems the drum DPWN likes to beat is the "two airline" problem they have.

I don't buy it. That's just their excuse for going to UPS. If having one airline would've 'solved' their problem, they could've simply dumped ABX's contract when Dasburg's 'offer' didn't work. Then put all their money into Astar and make it their one airline.
I don't think that's what the Germans wanted.

I just don't get why Joe is still in charge at ATSG. Do the stockholders have no power at all? If my stock had gone from 8 bucks to .90, I'd be pretty ticked about it.

There I'll agree with you. The Board of Directors have fiduciary responsibility to the stockholders. They are the ones who can fire him. Joe of course stacked the BOD with his own lackeys. But at some point the BOD will be forced to something.

 

[fob727]

Writing a letter to the CEO or board of directors explaining your concern is one thing, but picketing a competing company's HQ is quite another. In public and in front of the media, you are attacking UPS for destroying thousands of jobs and tarnishing their brand/image. UPS employs about 440,000 worldwide. Every worker in the US, whether part-time or full, receives full medical care. The drivers, pilots, mechanics, and dispatchers are among the highest paid in the nation within their fields of expertise. UPS is a good corporate citizen with a large charitable arm. Your attack upon UPS is misdirected.

BBB-As one who was involved in the picketing, that is exactly what we were trying to do....tarnish.

Let's see....within the past few years, UPS has been involved in the loss of around 13,000 jobs in Ohio.(DHL and Emery)

Real charitable!

 

[Big Beer Belly]

BBB-As one who was involved in the picketing, that is exactly what we were trying to do....tarnish.

Let's see....within the past few years, UPS has been involved in the loss of around 13,000 jobs in Ohio.(DHL and Emery)

Real charitable!

fob... it's called CAPITALISM. The company that builds a better mouse trap grows and employs more worker bees to build more traps and improve the design.

Companies are not welfare agencies. They do not exist to provide you employment. You and your other picket-toting buddies apparently do not understand the free market.

Perhaps this is why most airlines prefer college educated pilots?


BBB


PS If you've ever run a small business, or been in a management position at a small business, you'd be exceedingly familiar with these very basic principles of free market and capitalism.

 

[fob727]

Perhaps this is why most airlines prefer college educated pilots?

Oh, Mr. UPS pilot, I'm sorry! Did I and my "picket-toting buddies" hit a nerve?

Let me look again....I believe I have 2 degrees and neither one says basket weaving.

I guess your form of CAPITALISM is different from mine because I include social responsibility- less we all become crack dealers. My form of CAPITALISM creates jobs or there is no one to buy the "better mouse trap".

Do you think the "charitable arm" of UPS will donate any of the $10bil. to the ILN school district, No, I doubt it.

As I said....real charitable.

 

[hvydriver]

I don't buy it. That's just their excuse for going to UPS. If having one airline would've 'solved' their problem, they could've simply dumped ABX's contract when Dasburg's 'offer' didn't work. Then put all their money into Astar and make it their one airline.
I don't think that's what the Germans wanted.
There I'll agree with you. The Board of Directors have fiduciary responsibility to the stockholders. They are the ones who can fire him. Joe of course stacked the BOD with his own lackeys. But at some point the BOD will be forced to something.

Penguin, read my post again. On the two airline thing, I said "Of course we know that's not their problem." It's just their excuse. That's why I wonder if there's more to this "customer/vendor" relationship than meets the eye.