Astar Pilots March again, ABX pilots???

[shooter]

Writing a letter to the CEO or board of directors explaining your concern is one thing, but picketing a competing company's HQ is quite another. In public and in front of the media, you are attacking UPS for destroying thousands of jobs and tarnishing their brand/image. UPS employs about 440,000 worldwide. Every worker in the US, whether part-time or full, receives full medical care. The drivers, pilots, mechanics, and dispatchers are among the highest paid in the nation within their fields of expertise. UPS is a good corporate citizen with a large charitable arm. Your attack upon UPS is misdirected.

Most in management have worked their way up the ranks through decades of dedicated service and intermittent hardship. They are passionate about Brown's success. They bleed Brown. This is NOT a company led by a string of highly compensated outside CEO's. Thousands have poured their lives into this organization and many will take this attack personally. This is the Brown corporate culture.

As for working for Brown... I have my gripes from time to time... but in general, show up, fly your trip safely and you won't hear a peep from them till your annual recurrent date rolls around. I'm a simple man Shooter, so it's a good fit for me.

BBB

PS Hvy... I understand YOU have chosen to not seek employment with UPS in the future. The problem is that this little stunt will most likely prevent ALL of you from ever receiving employment from Brown. The aviation world is relatively small and you just eliminated one of the better fish, IMO. YMMV.

I have no problem with UPS, I know it is all DHL's doing and destruction. I will agree they are making a business move. But hvy is right when he points out that UPS spokesman Mr.Black did make a point that they have no intention of hiring displaced DHL workers. That puts a personal touch on a business decision and shows complete lack of even a shred of compassion for what all these people are going through. And if Mr.Black is the public voice of UPS, then UPS should be prepared for the reaction to those words because they contradict the Brown culture you know.

And if the management would hold every individual within the two groups responsible because a few would have a public showing of displeasure (which I feel they have every right to in this case) seems like a management group no person should have to work under. You have actual experience that says it is not that bad and I believe you. But like I said earlier, Mr. Black has publicly stated he has absolutely no compassion for DHL workers. He must just like pouring salt in open wounds. OH WAIT....he could be BTTB.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

BBB, since UPS has stated that they have no intention of hiring any AAC/ABX pilots, I really don't think there is any hope for any of our guys there. I further think that our guys realize that. Like I've said before, there is no need to get excited about a handful of job offers, when 1100 pilots are getting their pink slips.

I read the quote I think you are referring to from Black. One could infer that he was simply clarifying that no Astar/ABX pilots would be hired [IMMEDIATELY] as part of this deal... that the two were not connected. I really do not know what he meant. At any rate, with emotions running high, I sure wouldn't let that one statement by a corporate spokesman on day one of the announced deal deter me from obtaining employment at Brown if that is where I'd really like to hang my hat.

Hvy... you have repeatedly dismissed UPS as only offering a small number of pilot jobs. While that may be accurate in the short term, over the next 20 years the number of new hire pilots at Brown "could" be substantial. Perhaps some in your ranks are young enough for that time frame after seeking interim employment elsewhere? I was taught never to burn bridges or choose hastily in such situations.

In any case, I wish you the best.

BBB

 

[Big Beer Belly]

And if the management would hold every individual within the two groups responsible because a few would have a public showing of displeasure (which I feel they have every right to in this case) seems like a management group no person should have to work under.

Shooter,

I've read a number of your posts and all I can say is that we have very different views of the world. Specifically, corporations do not exist, NOR SHOULD THEY, to provide jobs. Corporations exist to create, through product or service, wealth. You can choose to participate in that wealth creation by seeking employment from that corporation or investing in it and hoping for a return on your "at-risk" capital.

This notion that you shouldn't have to work for a "mean management" is silly. UPS is a HUGE company with many employees. More often than not, there is no forethought to slight a worker. It's simply a byproduct of such a large, impersonal organization. Once you understand this, and can handle the impersonal aspect, working for a behemoth is a piece of cake. It sounds as if your personality would find greater satisfaction in a small company where your inputs are considered and valued. I say this with all sincerity.

Also, best wishes to you.

BBB

 

[shooter]

Shooter,

I've read a number of your posts and all I can say is that we have very different views of the world. Specifically, corporations do not exist, NOR SHOULD THEY, to provide jobs. Corporations exist to create, through product or service, wealth. You can choose to participate in that wealth creation by seeking employment from that corporation or investing in it and hoping for a return on your "at-risk" capital.

This notion that you shouldn't have to work for a "mean management" is silly. UPS is a HUGE company with many employees. More often than not, there is no forethought to slight a worker. It's simply a byproduct of such a large, impersonal organization. Once you understand this, and can handle the impersonal aspect, working for a behemoth is a piece of cake. It sounds as if your personality would find greater satisfaction in a small company where your inputs are considered and valued. I say this with all sincerity.

Also, best wishes to you.

BBB

LOL, thats funny. I never said "mean management", but I have studied management of people and I believe that is what makes a company. Maybe you are right that I would fit into a small organization better than a large one. But I also know of many large ones that value their employees and know they come first. That without the people, they would not be where they are. Not that I am staying in aviation but Southwest comes to mind. Herb knows the value of the employee. Google, a GREAT example of their people first. A couple others are American Express and P&G. So I will not be alone putting people first. And you know what, I like putting people first.

I plan on opening my own business out of this DHL disaster. I hope it will be a success and need to hire. When I do, I will chose select people and treat them as I would like to be treated. I do not think I owe them a job as you suggest. I just know to treat them well and not send their jobs to India where my customers complain.

Happy workers are productive workers.
Happy workers make happy customers.
Happy customers are repeat customers.
Repeat customers are GOLD.

 

[767pilot]

Oh, it starts with a bottle of water...

The DHL pilots should consider themselves lucky to get such largess from UPS. UPS stresses to the rampers how important it is to drink water, and then cut out the free water that they used to supply

 

[767pilot]

Hvy... you have repeatedly dismissed UPS as only offering a small number of pilot jobs. While that may be accurate in the short term, over the next 20 years the number of new hire pilots at Brown "could" be substantial.

Even if it is a small number, perhaps the father of 7-year-old Cameron and 7-month-old Jack would like to be considered for one. The IPA will do what it can to help out, hvydrvr shouldn't get in the way of those actually wanting a job here. Recovering just a few of those "lost american jobs" will be a victory.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

BBB, since UPS has stated that they have no intention of hiring any AAC/ABX pilots, I really don't think there is any hope for any of our guys there.

A few former Astar pilots have already gone to UPS, and I believe there are a couple more "in the pool" but are keeping quiet about it out of respect for their co-workers during these difficult times.

Those who were hired were offered jobs based on merit, not because they marched on UPS' headquarters.

I believe that Mr. Black's comments were meant to convey the fact that Astar/ABX pilots would not be hired "en masse," nor given preferential treatment during any part of the hiring process. No matter what any HR person or union president tells you, that's pretty much how it works in every business...the company fills vacancies with the best candidates available at the time.

I hope that any Astar/ABX guys who "fit the profile" won't be discouraged from applying at UPS when the window opens up.

 

[ABXbooger]

I can find no fault in what UPS is doing...it's simply called business. When UPS bought Menlo, did you Astar boys go picket for them?

I lay the blame squarely at the feet of DHL alone. I also seem to remember many Astar people vigourously defending DHL and saying things like "that's how DHL has always done it, ABX should just get in step...etc". That worked pretty well, huh?

 

[hvydriver]

I can find no fault in what UPS is doing...it's simply called business. When UPS bought Menlo, did you Astar boys go picket for them?

I lay the blame squarely at the feet of DHL alone. I also seem to remember many Astar people vigourously defending DHL and saying things like "that's how DHL has always done it, ABX should just get in step...etc". That worked pretty well, huh?

It would have if you did, but ya didn't. Water under the bridge now, and no longer relevant.

 

[hvydriver]

Even if it is a small number, perhaps the father of 7-year-old Cameron and 7-month-old Jack would like to be considered for one. The IPA will do what it can to help out, hvydrvr shouldn't get in the way of those actually wanting a job here. Recovering just a few of those "lost american jobs" will be a victory.

Thanks for giving me more credit than I deserve. I don't think I'm "getting in anyones way". The odds of getting on with UPS would be akin to hitting powerball for the father of Cameron, who's a friend of mine. We're a small carrier. We all know each other. While I and everyone appreciates Miller asking for preferential interviews for ABX/Astar types, as many of your own have stated, the IPA/UPS relationship isn't exactly wine and roses.