Asiana 777 crashed on landing at SFO

[dicko]

. I just flew with a guy who didn't want to fly into a short strip because the HUD was deferred. So I did it.

He's going to a stroke out when he sees Key West.

 

[Capn Butthead]

Juan....that's funny! Let me pick myself up off of the floor.

No I'm not saying that. I'm saying he did not like having a HUD...if you're used to having something it sucks when you don't have it. I'm fat and out of shape so I'm used to having a hamburger...if I can't get it, I'm not going to work. I've never used a HUD in my life so it's more my norm than what others are used to. We have to stick with what we are comfortable with...but I think as pilots that's where we get trapped. We are creatures of habit...I know that I am...but that's my point and Gutshots point...we need to mix it up and keep ourselves fresh.

 

[gutshotdraw]

My little corner of the aviation world offers a bit more operational flexibility than many airlines. Even though we have the largest fleet in the corporate/fractional world, for the most part our management doesn't legislate technique (so far, thankfully). That is a luxury many airline pilots do not have.

That means a lot more hand flying (the FUN part of this job) and the right to ignore the magic box, the x-ray vision HUD/EVS, and the other Captain Billy Whizbang gadgetry if it doesn't make sense at the time.

Our greatest challenge is being prepared for 7000 different airports from Aspen to Aruba to Angor Wat. That is also our greatest blessing because it helps prevent the inevitable complacency that can creep into some cockpits.

I do worry about some of the international products of ab initio programs and a single-minded focus on nothing but SOPs, airline operations, and slavish devotion to the magenta line.

Combine that style of training with a steep authority gradient of some foreign cultures and relative lack of "out there on your own in the sky" experience and it becomes apparent how something like this could happen.

Worse yet, there is no easy solution.

 

[Flopgut]

You've got to be able to fly the airplane. You've got to be able to fly the airplane. You've got to be able to fly the airplane. It can not be stressed enough. However, an airport like SFO should have a functioning ILS. On a global level, perhaps it's time we all insist that pilots get ALL the tools we need to do the job. I'm talking correct pitot tubes, functioning ILS approaches, investment in ATC systems, etc. I think we are starting to drift away from some safety issues we used to understand better.

 

[Flyer1015]

The whole reason the glidepaths were OTS was to accomdate a displaced threshold to add a runway safety area as mandated by the FAA.

 

[Flopgut]

The whole reason the glidepaths were OTS was to accomdate a displaced threshold to add a runway safety area as mandated by the FAA.

I hear you. Might make sense to have a runway safety area. Except when you might contribute to an accident in the process of building it.

Time to take a good look at how the FAA, airports, ATC etc are doing business. When your airport CFR runs over a survivor, you need to look at the big picture.

 

[Flyer1015]

I hear you. Might make sense to have a runway safety area. Except when you might contribute to an accident in the process of building it.

Time to take a good look at how the FAA, airports, ATC etc are doing business. When your airport CFR runs over a survivor, you need to look at the big picture.

Agreed. Could you imagine surviving an airplane crash only to be run over to death by a CFR truck? If that's not a 'Final Destination' type death, I don't know what is.

 

[redflyer65]

I hear you. Might make sense to have a runway safety area. Except when you might contribute to an accident in the process of building it.

Time to take a good look at how the FAA, airports, ATC etc are doing business. When your airport CFR runs over a survivor, you need to look at the big picture.

Flop,

You are exactly right. No oversight for actual safety.

 

[Old School 737]

Absolutely pathetic if they came up short with the displaced threshold give me a break the runways plenty long even with the Displacement... No need to land on brick number 1 .., I'm sure Fatigue is going to be huge issue.. As it is training and the ability to actually fly the airplane !! 30knots slow !!!!give me a break..,. It's 2 bad ... Feel bad for the hurt... And deaths ..

 

[Whine Lover]

Just had an event where the Heading Knob jammed up....No big deal, right?

Yup.

Try having the autopilot intercept an ILS when you cant select the Heading.

You wind up with F/D OFF, or erroneous Lateral Nav information which you must ignore, and a lot of hand flying into NYC airspace at a critical time.....after an Atlantic Crossing and a 12-16 hour Duty Day.

It happens. It sucks. It isn't pretty.

BUT, it's "Do-Able" if you hand fly now and then....Or, better yet, spent the first 20 years of your Career doing so.

Ab Initio, Push Button "Pilots" might have some trouble with this....I know I did after the last 10 years of automated Boeings.

Thank God for the first 20 years of having to "Do It For Real".




YKW

 

[Whine Lover]

My little corner of the aviation world offers a bit more operational flexibility than many airlines. Even though we have the largest fleet in the corporate/fractional world, for the most part our management doesn't legislate technique (so far, thankfully). That is a luxury many airline pilots do not have.

That means a lot more hand flying (the FUN part of this job) and the right to ignore the magic box, the x-ray vision HUD/EVS, and the other Captain Billy Whizbang gadgetry if it doesn't make sense at the time.

Our greatest challenge is being prepared for 7000 different airports from Aspen to Aruba to Angor Wat. That is also our greatest blessing because it helps prevent the inevitable complacency that can creep into some cockpits.

I do worry about some of the international products of ab initio programs and a single-minded focus on nothing but SOPs, airline operations, and slavish devotion to the magenta line.

Combine that style of training with a steep authority gradient of some foreign cultures and relative lack of "out there on your own in the sky" experience and it becomes apparent how something like this could happen.

Worse yet, there is no easy solution.

Perfectly well said.

YKW

 

[jetstream]

When I'm giving OE to a new pilot its common to see them punching buttons like crazy on the Flight Control Panel trying to make the auto pilot fly a visual approach for them. I give it a minute and then say "Turn that ******************** off. Look out the window, fly the airplane over there to the runway and land it". If you can't do that, we have a problem we need to fix.

 

[Whine Lover]

When I'm giving OE to a new pilot its common to see them punching buttons like crazy on the Flight Control Panel trying to make the auto pilot fly a visual approach for them. I give it a minute and then say "Turn that ******************** off. Look out the window, fly the airplane over there to the runway and land it". If you can't do that, we have a problem we need to fix.

PERFECT.

What a CONCEPT!

PILOTS....Should be ABLE to FLY....AIRPLANES.

WWOT?

YKW

 

[labatt]

Not saying this had anything to do with the accident.

That being said, this is quite possibly the best aviation video I have ever seen. If you have a spare 25 minutes, it is must see.

"Children of Magenta".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3kREPMzMLk

 

[texman]

He's going to a stroke out when he sees Key West.

F-16 guy. LOL