ASA training dept. rumor

[ASA_Aviator]

When the dust finally settles, I think many of you will find the Skywest/ASA management team to be very acceptable. All management teams encounter operational and organizational challenges. When evaluated honestly and objectively , using profitability and viabilty as metrics, their performance is quite good in this difficult environment. Attempting to beat them down with ill placed, tired rhetoric will not achieve much of anything. By all means we must negotiate for fair QOL and compensation, but don't expect them to give away the farm; particularly when the farm isn't producing much in the current drought conditions. I encourage anyone who has questions about operational issues to simply ask SH or BH for clarification. They have answered every question I have ever asked.

Wow. Someone gets it...

 

[Thebadcat1313]

When the dust finally settles, I think many of you will find the Skywest/ASA management team to be very acceptable. All management teams encounter operational and organizational challenges. When evaluated honestly and objectively , using profitability and viabilty as metrics, their performance is quite good in this difficult environment. Attempting to beat them down with ill placed, tired rhetoric will not achieve much of anything. By all means we must negotiate for fair QOL and compensation, but don't expect them to give away the farm; particularly when the farm isn't producing much in the current drought conditions. I encourage anyone who has questions about operational issues to simply ask SH or BH for clarification. They have answered every question I have ever asked.

Nice to see an adult comment vs. all the kids.

 

[ratherbeflyen]

1. The XJT side doesn't want the ASA PBS system. ASA does. That is causing a lot of the conflict.

2. The XJT side seems to really want to fight just for the sake of fighting. The XJT side doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that we do have to remain competitive. The ASA side isn't advocating paycuts, but is setting it's sites a little lower.

3. The instructor section list integration didn't go well between the two sides.

I checked with my in the know crowd about what happened last week. I can't comment about this week. It sounds like most of it is being blow out of proportion on here.

1. I'll concede that the vast majority will NOT take the ASA pbs as it stands, including myself even though it would get me off reserve. The only way I'd agree to pbs is if the minimum days per month went up and vacation touch/drop still applied.

2. I haven't heard anything on this subject and can't comment either way.

3. As far as I'm concerned the only way any pilot should be able to go hold a long term off line position is to resign their seniority number. Do you want to be a pilot or do you want to be an accountant? Go pick ONE. I also think that every flight instructor should have to fly a minimum of 10-20 hours per month. I really don't know how your supposed to be an expert instructor on an airplane that you turned 60 before the thing was invented. Having said that, I am absolutely positive that there are instructors that are only instructors because of their discontent for the line and will fight anyone and everyone to keep the status quo and their current pay.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I checked with my in the know crowd about what happened last week. I can't comment about this week. It sounds like most of it is being blow out of proportion on here.

1. I'll concede that the vast majority will NOT take the ASA pbs as it stands, including myself even though it would get me off reserve. The only way I'd agree to pbs is if the minimum days per month went up and vacation touch/drop still applied.

2. I haven't heard anything on this subject and can't comment either way.

3. As far as I'm concerned the only way any pilot should be able to go hold a long term off line position is to resign their seniority number. Do you want to be a pilot or do you want to be an accountant? Go pick ONE. I also think that every flight instructor should have to fly a minimum of 10-20 hours per month. I really don't know how your supposed to be an expert instructor on an airplane that you turned 60 before the thing was invented. Having said that, I am absolutely positive that there are instructors that are only instructors because of their discontent for the line and will fight anyone and everyone to keep the status quo and their current pay.

Do you have guys working as accountants and keeping seniority? That's a little odd. Within the company, or external?

I think our instructors have a month of line flying per year at ASA.

 

[Data]

When the dust finally settles, I think many of you will find the Skywest/ASA management team to be very acceptable. All management teams encounter operational and organizational challenges. When evaluated honestly and objectively , using profitability and viabilty as metrics, their performance is quite good in this difficult environment. Attempting to beat them down with ill placed, tired rhetoric will not achieve much of anything. By all means we must negotiate for fair QOL and compensation, but don't expect them to give away the farm; particularly when the farm isn't producing much in the current drought conditions. I encourage anyone who has questions about operational issues to simply ask SH or BH for clarification. They have answered every question I have ever asked.

Hey, this is FI, logical, well written posts do not belong here. Let's get back to mindless dolts bemoaning how evil Scott and Charlie are, those guys are much more entertaining!

 

[ratherbeflyen]

Do you have guys working as accountants and keeping seniority? That's a little odd. Within the company, or external?

I think our instructors have a month of line flying per year at ASA.

Accountants may have been a little facetious, but there are pilots in company management positions holding a seniority number. Doesn't the CEO have a line pilot number?

 

[CFI2766]

When the dust finally settles, I think many of you will find the Skywest/ASA management team to be very acceptable. All management teams encounter operational and organizational challenges. When evaluated honestly and objectively , using profitability and viabilty as metrics, their performance is quite good in this difficult environment. Attempting to beat them down with ill placed, tired rhetoric will not achieve much of anything. By all means we must negotiate for fair QOL and compensation, but don't expect them to give away the farm; particularly when the farm isn't producing much in the current drought conditions. I encourage anyone who has questions about operational issues to simply ask SH or BH for clarification. They have answered every question I have ever asked.

Two points:

1. Most sane people agree with this statement. However, most sane people also disagree strongly that the only 'metrics' that matter are profitability and viability.

By this logic, why not enact an immediate reduction in benefits in the name of 'profitability' and 'viability'? Why not enact an immediate increase in productivity by decreasing the amount of time employees are given for a vacation? This too would enhance 'profitability' and 'viability', right? Why not select the bid runs every month that produce the best numbers on the management summary, regardless of the quality of life for the pilots that the resultant schedules would produce? This too would enhance 'profitability'...


2. From one ASA pilot's viewpoint, the current management team is clearly head and shoulders above anything that has previously existed in the past at ASA, especially when evaluated in a 'rate-reset' environment. However, we've now encountered two consecutive summers where pilot staffing was grossly inadequate. There are numerous stories of aircraft that are simply not receiving the maintenance attention that they require. Though there is an ostensibly friendly slant to the internal communications (with the blatant exception of '...It doesn't matter how we got here..'), we've received far too many 'Thank You For All That You Do' statements and far too few resources to accomplish the mission of reliably moving people and cargo in a scheduled airline environment.

The lesson that is seemingly not being learned here is that there needs to be a genuine focus on what needs to happen out on the flight line to get the job done. The realities of the last two years indicate that the current management team is all too content to view things through the distantly-removed prism of repeated name changes, superfluous Acepaloozas, and uniform changes that are a 'top priority.'

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Two points:
Though there is an ostensibly friendly slant to the internal communications (with the blatant exception of '...It doesn't matter how we got here..'),

Since I know that you know Scott personally, I'm going to throw the BS flag on this one. While it was certainly a not thought through statement, it was not blatantly unfriendly. I get that people like to harp on that phrase, and it's a good populist motivating sound bite, but don't go inflaming it saying it was unfriendly. It was just a quick, desperate sentence intending to accept responsibility, and motivate people to look past the blame to cover the flying for the weekend. (Admittedly, the opposite result happened...)

There's enough ammunition out there that you don't have to go misrepresenting things.

 

[CFI2766]

Since I know that you know Scott personally, I'm going to throw the BS flag on this one. While it was certainly a not thought through statement, it was not blatantly unfriendly. I get that people like to harp on that phrase, and it's a good populist motivating sound bite, but don't go inflaming it saying it was unfriendly. It was just a quick, desperate sentence intending to accept responsibility, and motivate people to look past the blame to cover the flying for the weekend. (Admittedly, the opposite result happened...)

There's enough ammunition out there that you don't have to go misrepresenting things.

Disappointing...I know Scott about as personally as you do: He's my boss's boss. Let's not 'misrepresent' that he and I share a special bond, or, alternatively, that I do not respect him for the work he does at our airline. Scott has his role to play at ASA; he is very good at what he does.

No inflamation necessary: It was a terrible way for a supervisor to address an employee group. It was counter-productive and likely served to decrease the productivity of the pilot group. He is aware of my, and many other pilots', feelings on this matter.

It's telling that this is the point that you chose to address. Nothing more substantive in my post that you care to respond to?

 

[Freebrd]

And notice that SH hasn't been sending out too many memos lately, instead CT has. Me thinks SH got his pee pee whacked for that negative memo. But hey it doesn't matter how WE got here......

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Disappointing...I know Scott about as personally as you do: He's my boss's boss. Let's not 'misrepresent' that he and I share a special bond, or, alternatively, that I do not respect him for the work he does at our airline. Scott has his role to play at ASA; he is very good at what he does.

No inflamation necessary: It was a terrible way for a supervisor to address an employee group. It was counter-productive and likely served to decrease the productivity of the pilot group. He is aware of my, and many other pilots', feelings on this matter.

It's telling that this is the point that you chose to address. Nothing more substantive in my post that you care to respond to?

I apologize. It's not worth an argument.

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

When the dust finally settles, I think many of you will find the Skywest/ASA management team to be very acceptable. All management teams encounter operational and organizational challenges. When evaluated honestly and objectively , using profitability and viabilty as metrics, their performance is quite good in this difficult environment. Attempting to beat them down with ill placed, tired rhetoric will not achieve much of anything. By all means we must negotiate for fair QOL and compensation, but don't expect them to give away the farm; particularly when the farm isn't producing much in the current drought conditions. I encourage anyone who has questions about operational issues to simply ask SH or BH for clarification. They have answered every question I have ever asked.

What do you think your doing mister, coming on here and bringing light to these whining idiots!
Back to the clueless rants and raves immediately, I say!!!

 

[Nevets]

I was on ASA's negotiating committee for contract '98. I attended the George Meany negotiating training. What experience do you have besides buying cars and such?

Typical that you resort ad hominem arguments rather than respond to my point.

Since I helped negotiate contract '98, the net profit margin of ASA has gone from around 15% to near 0. Since then, the economics of the 50 seater have gone from good to nobody can get rid of them fast enough. I don't need a lecture from you. You don't even want ASA/XJT to really survive. You think if we go away, mainline will take over all this flying and you will magically become a "real pilot"....I hate to break it to you, but if we go away, it won't be mainline that takes over our flying..

You couldn't be farther from the truth. Yes, I do want brand scope. But if it means I'm out of a job because of it, so be it. In any case, I'm not married to this career. If I lose my job, I'll be just fine either way. I certainly don't lose sleep over any of this.

 

[maxcackel]

I was on ASA's negotiating committee for contract '98. I attended the George Meany negotiating training. What experience do you have besides buying cars and such?




Since I helped negotiate contract '98, the net profit margin of ASA has gone from around 15% to near 0. Since then, the economics of the 50 seater have gone from good to nobody can get rid of them fast enough. I don't need a lecture from you. You don't even want ASA/XJT to really survive. You think if we go away, mainline will take over all this flying and you will magically become a "real pilot"....I hate to break it to you, but if we go away, it won't be mainline that takes over our flying..

What type of management team negotiates a near 0 profit margin. If Delta want's the cheapest scumbag bidder no matter what then ASA can not survive.

 

[79%N1]

The problem was Delta's insistance that ASA be the "second lowest cost" airline among DCI carriers. That is a level of insanity that I cannot comprehend, but it was real. Now the rates have been reset to that level, and ASA cannot profit! It will probably be the end of ASA in the medium to long term unless things change.

My difficulty with this stipulation is that it makes no sense. If ASA was slated to be the second lowest cost, then who was told they had to maintain the lowest costs, the third lowest, the fourth lowest, fifth lowest and who gets to be the 'highest cost' carrier??? Can you imagine? 'Hey, we demand that your costs are highest among all our partners'? Yeah, right. What a farce. The whole thing reeks of extortion, but here we are, and it doesn't matter how we got here!

 

[Plainsman]

That is what Skywest and Delta agreed upon when the deal was done. There was, no we have to be the second lowest. It was going to be regardless of how cheap we would try to be. How could we be cheaper than Pinnacle or Mesa. Remember they came into the fold after the deal was done. Were we supposed to compete with that crap. People are stuck right now it will get better though. Mr. Joe, I hate to call a spade a spade, but you are a self-centered sellout. No difference in you and a senior Delta dude giving up scope, just different places in life.

 

[enuffalready]

That is what Skywest and Delta agreed upon when the deal was done. There was, no we have to be the second lowest. It was going to be regardless of how cheap we would try to be. How could we be cheaper than Pinnacle or Mesa. Remember they came into the fold after the deal was done. Were we supposed to compete with that crap. People are stuck right now it will get better though. Mr. Joe, I hate to call a spade a spade, but you are a self-centered sellout. No difference in you and a senior Delta dude giving up scope, just different places in life.

not sure how he is a self centered sell out? he didn't negotiate this retarded 2nd lowest bidder nonsense.

where it gets frustrating is that somehow its the pilots fault for all these rise in costs.... the only thing we can do is show up and attempt to fly broken airplanes on time... that's it. The UTAH palace knew full well that merging a full 50 seat operation of different aircraft and a fairly militant group of expressjet pilots was going to be very expensive. That is one of the reasons they put it on ASA instead of skywest. now they can poo poo all this as ASA fault and ASA needs to get their act together, then when it is all said and done, skywest gets the credit while ASA takes it in the nutz

 

[PBRstreetgang]

When the dust finally settles, I think many of you will find the Skywest/ASA management team to be very acceptable. All management teams encounter operational and organizational challenges. When evaluated honestly and objectively , using profitability and viabilty as metrics, their performance is quite good in this difficult environment. Attempting to beat them down with ill placed, tired rhetoric will not achieve much of anything. By all means we must negotiate for fair QOL and compensation, but don't expect them to give away the farm; particularly when the farm isn't producing much in the current drought conditions. I encourage anyone who has questions about operational issues to simply ask SH or BH for clarification. They have answered every question I have ever asked.

You sir are too dumb for air. This deferral process, scheduling nonsense is coming from on high, SGU directs this crap from Mecca. While you try so hard in your limited Labrador intellect to "understand" this process logically SGU pulls the sweater over your head and kicks you in the junk, just like they have been doing to SKYW Airlines pilots for the last 10 years. You are run and managed by bean counters, it they will make/keep money coming in by canceling a flight vs running the entire A/C line late they will do so, they have a different picture than we do, they will do anything to keep the cash flow in place. It isn't about flying planes, or moving passengers its about money. DAL cares about moving pax, pilots care about flying planes and INC cares about money, all 3 have different concerns and priorities. You keep worrying about the company, then you will be in the same leaky rowboat as the SKYW Airlines pilots.
PBR

 

[sunlitpath]

You sir are too dumb for air. This deferral process, scheduling nonsense is coming from on high, SGU directs this crap from Mecca. While you try so hard in your limited Labrador intellect to "understand" this process logically SGU pulls the sweater over your head and kicks you in the junk, just like they have been doing to SKYW Airlines pilots for the last 10 years. You are run and managed by bean counters, it they will make/keep money coming in by canceling a flight vs running the entire A/C line late they will do so, they have a different picture than we do, they will do anything to keep the cash flow in place. It isn't about flying planes, or moving passengers its about money. DAL cares about moving pax, pilots care about flying planes and INC cares about money, all 3 have different concerns and priorities. You keep worrying about the company, then you will be in the same leaky rowboat as the SKYW Airlines pilots.
PBR

I suppose your silly little insults would bother me if I repected you or your opinions, but since I don't respect you in any way, I will disregard your stupid ramblings. On a side note, your post is really idiotic. I am convinced that you know absolutely nothing about market based economies, professional management, or the basic realites of life on planet earth. Your viewpoint is polluted with anger, which prevents an objective analysis of anything. Furthermore, you can kiss my ass. You are a cowardly little bitch...

 

[COOPERVANE]

Are there REAL cherries in McDonalds cherry shake or is it artificial?