ASA training dept. rumor

[PUCK]

............

 

[JoeMerchant]

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[Nevets]

Again, since ASA is 1/2 part of Skywest, Inc.....and Skywest Inc bought XJT, it is safe to draw the logical parallel and say "we" when inferring the buying of XJT. Man, you guys are so damm touchy about that. Semantics.......

It is not safe to draw that illogical conclusion. "We" is just some of you guys trying to have an attitude that is not helpful to the combined pilot group. Once you can get past the "we bought you" mentality, then you will see us not be "touchy" about what we should strive for in negotiations and not settle for anything that is concessionary for either pilot group. Otherwise its some of you guys using that as an excuse to leverage yourselves over us in contract negotiations. We should be on the same side against the management team who bought both of us instead of trying to create artificial walls between us by continuing to throw out useless terms like "we bought you."

I don't think ASA was ever one half of Skywest Inc anyways.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

http://daycalc.appspot.com/12/13/2012

Can we attempt to not burn this place to the ground until then? Management, this means you too.

 

[dojetdriver]

I can tell you why I am angry. I think your guys are trying to dictate how things will be to our group.

That's funny, because XJT pilot could also cry foul that "you guys are trying to dictate how things will be to our pilot group blah blah blah......"

Sorry, but we bought you. You were in trouble. You want to screw the ASA instructors. Also you don't want PBS. Our guys do. We do have to compete. We have been whipsawed much longer than you guys.

Nevets was much more eloquent, but "you" didn't buy anybody. Inc has three separate airlines under it's umbrella.

 

[79%N1]

And we are part of Inc., so our company (Inc) i.e "we" bought your company.

 

[BigPappa]

Express you got bought, now quit crying. At least now you have a future, and welcome to the game where "no pilot is a winner". Not saying that you have to settle, but to walk in chest thumping and screaming, me, me, me... will also not get the desired results in combining the two. HINT: Work these issues out together and not on your own!

BTW. The snobbish thing I observe from some Express people is beyond this world. 1. You still are a regional pilot. 2. When I got to ASA it was a much better place to work for then it was to work for at Express. That is why I picked ASA. The express jet contract has only been better for the last few years. All since ASA got sold by Delta.

 

[Nevets]

And we are part of Inc., so our company (Inc) i.e "we" bought your company.

"We" is just some of you guys trying to have an attitude that is not helpful to the combined pilot group. Once you can get past the "we bought you" mentality, then you will see us not be "touchy" about what we should strive for in negotiations and not settle for anything that is concessionary for either pilot group. Otherwise its some of you guys using that as an excuse to leverage yourselves over us in contract negotiations. We should be on the same side against the management team who bought both of us instead of trying to create artificial walls between us by continuing to throw out useless terms like "we bought you."

Express you got bought, now quit crying. At least now you have a future, and welcome to the game where "no pilot is a winner". Not saying that you have to settle, but to walk in chest thumping and screaming, me, me, me... will also not get the desired results in combining the two. HINT: Work these issues out together and not on your own!

BTW. The snobbish thing I observe from some Express people is beyond this world. 1. You still are a regional pilot. 2. When I got to ASA it was a much better place to work for then it was to work for at Express. That is why I picked ASA. The express jet contract has only been better for the last few years. All since ASA got sold by Delta.

Keep in mind that the reason why supposedly we didn't have a future is because "you" undercut our CPA with CAL. Thanks for that future. "You" broke it, "you" buy it. Now quit crying about crying.

Sorry, I guess XJT has only been better for the past 7 years.

 

[BigPappa]

"We" is just some of you guys trying to have an attitude that is not helpful to the combined pilot group. Once you can get past the "we bought you" mentality, then you will see us not be "touchy" about what we should strive for in negotiations and not settle for anything that is concessionary for either pilot group. Otherwise its some of you guys using that as an excuse to leverage yourselves over us in contract negotiations. We should be on the same side against the management team who bought both of us instead of trying to create artificial walls between us by continuing to throw out useless terms like "we bought you."



Keep in mind that the reason why supposedly we didn't have a future is because "you" undercut our CPA with CAL. Thanks for that future. "You" broke it, "you" buy it. Now quit crying about crying.

Sorry, I guess XJT has only been better for the past 7 years.

Fact is you slid your own throat with CAL, you underestimated Skywest and lost sight of what could/was about to happen. That is when Skywest threw their left hook. Not to say that there was anything that you could've done, actually yes you could have.......but you did not!
Seven years? You must not be aware when they bought us.

 

[Nevets]

Fact is you slid your own throat with CAL, you underestimated Skywest and lost sight of what could/was about to happen. That is when Skywest threw their left hook. Not to say that there was anything that you could've done, actually yes you could have.......but you did not!
Seven years? You must not be aware when they bought us.

Fact is you don't have your facts straight. Or maybe you care to show us by telling me specifically 1)how we slit our own throat, 2)how we under estimated SKW, 3)what could/was about to happen, 4)what left hook, and 5)what we could've done?

They bought ASA in 2005. XJT's contract was ratified almost 7 years ago though.

 

[BigPappa]

Fact is you don't have your facts straight. Or maybe you care to show us by telling me specifically 1)how we slit our own throat, 2)how we under estimated SKW, 3)what could/was about to happen, 4)what left hook, and 5)what we could've done?

They bought ASA in 2005. XJT's contract was ratified almost 7 years ago though.

fact is your facts are wrong! They bought us in 2008.

 

[twott driver]

Big P. Hate to break it to you mate, but they bought us in '05, right before BigD declared ch11. With any luck all of us...well, maybe not Joe.... will be long gone from this place before the contracts resolved

 

[eee]

Which one was bought by Skywest Inc.? Which one is a regional? Which one is better? Same answer for each question.

 

[BoilerUP]

Ah yes, "Acquired, not hired" - this time on the regional level.

Pilots can be so stupid sometimes...

 

[JumpersAway]

Legally, there is NO leverage to being bought, purchased, aquired, etc. It simply doesn't matter, and there is no benefit to who bought who at all, for any reason. Aquisitions simply merge, and don't provide any leverage. Everything must be negotiated, and it must be done on agreeable terms, or done through arbitration. Frankly, I think arbitration is where this is headed. Management knows this, and that is why they are dragging their feet. They also know that the industry average will be used to formulate our new merged pay scales if this happens, and we are already leading the pack in many regards.

SkyWest Inc. went after the contracts for CAL, not the throat of XJet. It's a free market, and INC. took advantage of it when CAL solicited for cheaper feed. Don't hate the player, hate the game! Whipsaw is the ONLY reason the regionals exist- sooner you realize this the better. Don't want the whip saw? Get rid of the regionals. Think doing this will force flying to the majors where you will get a job?? WRONG- just forces some clown to start a new airline with lower costs due to newer pilots and lower pay. See Go-Jets, Compass, or Mid-Atlantic for the proof. The only way to prevent this is through "Brand Scope", which is what JoeMerchant preaches. This is the reality. Falling on the sword accomplishes absolutely nothing that benefits the long term prospects of this industry for the above reasons. The only way we will make it through this alright is to work togeather.......for a REASONABLE contract that pays us, and still (brace for it)......allows our combined company to actually make a profit. That's why it exists- isn't a job charity.

 

[princeton]

Again, since ASA is 1/2 part of Skywest, Inc.....and Skywest Inc bought XJT, it is safe to draw the logical parallel and say "we" when inferring the buying of XJT. Man, you guys are so damm touchy about that. Semantics.......

It's not semantics, we've heard "ASA bought XJT so you'll do what we want" so often that as soon as anyone says "we bought you" we assume that is what's coming.

Skywest Inc. bought ASA, they also bought XJT so we're in the same boat. Why cause division where none is needed? It's the two of us (ASA+XJT) against THEM (Inc.) in the contract negotiation.

 

[dojetdriver]

Ah yes, "Acquired, not hired" - this time on the regional level.

Pilots can be so stupid sometimes...

Yep, sad and pathetic. Whether it's DALqeda vs. NRDS, SW vs. the Trannies, or the Momo empire vs. Another Sh1tty Airline/ExpressMess.

 

[Nevets]

fact is your facts are wrong! They bought us in 2008.

I don't think so. Can you provide a reference? Also, can you answer the five other questions I posed to you?

Everything must be negotiated, and it must be done on agreeable terms, or done through arbitration. Frankly, I think arbitration is where this is headed. Management knows this, and that is why they are dragging their feet. They also know that the industry average will be used to formulate our new merged pay scales if this happens, and we are already leading the pack in many regards.

Well, good thing the transition and process agreement doesn't allow the contract negotiations to go to arbitration. I hear ASA people say this all the time and can't understand why they keep saying this. The only thing I can guess is that they heard it before from their MEC or management as a scare tactic.

The only way we will make it through this alright is to work togeather.......for a REASONABLE contract that pays us, and still (brace for it)......allows our combined company to actually make a profit. That's why it exists- isn't a job charity.

Let management do their job. Let's not do it for them by guessing on what they might think its reasonable. That is NOT the way you would negotiate for a car or house so it shouldn't be how you negotiate for your compensation, work rules, and benefits. This is business and they know that. They will take advantage of our reasonableness if they can because they should. Like you said, its not a charity and they wont give us more than what we ask for if we don't ask for it.

This is thee biggest culture difference between our MECs and pilots.

 

[BigPappa]

I don't think so. Can you provide a reference? Also, can you answer the five other questions I posed to you?



Well, good thing the transition and process agreement doesn't allow the contract negotiations to go to arbitration. I hear ASA people say this all the time and can't understand why they keep saying this. The only thing I can guess is that they heard it before from their MEC or management as a scare tactic.



Let management do their job. Let's not do it for them by guessing on what they might think its reasonable. That is NOT the way you would negotiate for a car or house so it shouldn't be how you negotiate for your compensation, work rules, and benefits. This is business and they know that. They will take advantage of our reasonableness if they can because they should. Like you said, its not a charity and they wont give us more than what we ask for if we don't ask for it.

This is thee biggest culture difference between our MECs and pilots.

I stand corrected, 2005 it is. Time seems to fly. As far as the other questions: Express could have gone on strike if they wanted to.

 

[Nevets]

As far as the other questions: Express could have gone on strike if they wanted to.

This is not a serious statement is it?