Asa Ta No Way

[Erlanger]

Do you think that the SAPA negotiated pay and work rules for Skywest pilots are better then this ALPA negotiated piece of sh!t TA?

 

[79%N1]

This month I would get about 1.5 hrs from the rigs...plus my 1% raise. It will go up.....slightly. Roughly $80 gross. I will easily lose more than that in vacation months though.

Not sure how that is possible, (not saying it isn't true). My last 3 day the rigs would have paid 3.4, and my last 4 day would have paid 4.5 extra! That is 7.9 extra pay in two trips! With rigs and pay raise, my pay would be $960 greater this month under the new rules.

 

[asayankee]

Well....those are your trips and not mine. What's your point exactly???

 

[OCP]

Also, the CNC's "strategy" of taking good notes during negotiations and hoping that they win grievance cases in order to protect out QOL is CRAP! And when you ask where that came from it was from one of the roadshows (I went to 2) directly from Mankamyer.

Why is this crap? It keeps someone from the neg. comity from moving over to mgt. and "reinterpreting the intent" of what they agreed upon at the start. i.e. naps.
So what is the crap part?

 

[JoeMerchant]

This whole contract was previously promoted on the great merits of the "Crown Jewel," Section 13 Scheduling section! How many of you remember that at the RGT lunches and in Negotiator's Notepad?

This Section 13 is concessionary like most of the rest of this contract! Many of us wanted something to vote on! Here's your chance!

VOTE NO, Hell No! Don't get sucked in by your signing bonus--even it could be better!

VOTE NO!

This is too funny..... one of the ALPA cheerleaders is now pi$$ed..... Don't worry, you weren't "left behind"....

This is a good agreement and the best we can hope for.... even if the scope section sucks.....

Those of you who are pi$$ed at this deal need to fight to fix ALPA..... we need to stop competing with each other and we need "brand scope".....

 

[asayankee]

Why is this crap? It keeps someone from the neg. comity from moving over to mgt. and "reinterpreting the intent" of what they agreed upon at the start. i.e. naps.
So what is the crap part?

But it also lets some third party arbitrator decide what the actual intent was...taking both parties out of the picture. Just because they take good notes doesn't mean they will agree with you. If they secured the intent in the original language it wouldn't be necessary. Instead we have the same vagueness we're struggling with now.

 

[Smacktard]

• Payrates that don't protect 700 pilots for reconfiguring to 59 seats with a first class (it's coming...making us all 50 seat pay!)

I voted NO

Actually, they will be 66 seaters, so does that take it down to 50 seat pay?

 

[79%N1]

Well....those are your trips and not mine. What's your point exactly???

My point, exactly, is the rigs will have value, even if this one trip you have didn't apply. How can you claim the rigs have no value, and you won't make any more money and when I show you another view....you ask whats my point?

 

[OCP]

But it also lets some third party arbitrator decide what the actual intent was...taking both parties out of the picture. Just because they take good notes doesn't mean they will agree with you. If they secured the intent in the original language it wouldn't be necessary. Instead we have the same vagueness we're struggling with now.

And this is different from what happens now, how? Now we have a document that describes the intent of the original agreement. Again this is crap why?

 

[scarlet]

So vote No =Go ask Airtran how long they will wait to meet with the NMB? 6-8 months just to sit down again and talk.

Comair took big paycuts on the 70, I believe we would be the number 2 airline behind Horizon pay on the 70.

WHat do you want to make on the 70? Jetblue and Dl pay less for a 90 seater? DO some research!!!

GAS prices Soar/Economy going down quickly.

Skywest can save money on trading in 50s for 70s, and guess who will get them?=Instant paycut

 

[scarlet]

Pay cuts for new hires before they get to IOE
Pay cuts for instructors
Pay cuts for everybody in vacation months if your under guarantee that month (which is most people!!!Read the MMG section CLOSELY)
No real raise for 700 pilots
A scheduling section that offers NO assurances to any QOL improvements (except days off)....everything is at the companies discretion
Rigs that don't protect you for reschedules
Only $13.5million for 5 years....Skywest has over $800 million in CASH and there's no more money than that?
Worthless scope
Payrates that don't protect 700 pilots for reconfiguring to 59 seats with a first class (it's coming...making us all 50 seat pay!)
1 hr of pay for 2.5 hrs of home/self-training...why did we take a cut from the 1:2 standard?


Ten items and most will not affect you, and you want to vote the whole thing down.

I am now convinced that pilots are NEVER happy! paycut for new hire, pay cut for instructor because he signed up for that job because he loves instructing=yeah RIGHT!! I know alot of days you are at FS about 4-6 hours and sometimes less than that! WE work 12-13 hours most days on a 4 day trip and not home everynight so there!

I voted yes, ALOT better than any other regional out there !!!!

 

[Speedtape]

This is too funny..... one of the ALPA cheerleaders is now pi$$ed..... Don't worry, you weren't "left behind"....

Yes, I support ALPA--not your RJDC! We are only left behind at this point, if, through Pilot Ratification, we vote in a contract that is deficient! The responsibility falls in our laps--not ALPA or the Negotiating Committee! The power is in the hands of the ASA Pilot group! That point is one to which even you should be able to understand and agree. It is not in the hands of National ALPA! We have the power to determine whether or not we get left behind! I will have to live with the result of this vote--just like you! I am not a QUITTER and will never shirk my responsibilities. How about YOU?

This is a good agreement and the best we can hope for.... even if the scope section sucks.....

Actually, the scope section may be one of the bright spots. However, overall, this is not a good agreement and not the best we should hope for! It is concessionary in many areas.

Those of you who are pi$$ed at this deal need to fight to fix ALPA..... we need to stop competing with each other and we need "brand scope".....

This is wrong logic pal! You are the one who likes to criticize National ALPA for not acting in the best interest of the pilots. ASA pilots, alone, have the control in this situation to determine the quality of the ASA working agreement. That should make you happy! At this point, we need to fight to fix this contract!

 

[scarlet]

FIX this contract? There may not be another? If the 50s are going away and trading them in for 700-900 and to whom would they go to.

We would have a no Furlough clause in this TA?

No TA and the new planes go to union free Skywest.
There goes your upgrade, there goes your future contract...why would Skywest INC want to settle our contract? Do tell?

 

[wms]

nevermind.

 

[doh]

It is never wrong to vote NO. Sometimes it is wrong to vote yes.:beer: Your TA will pass with about 2/3 yes.

 

[601Pilot]

Not sure how that is possible, (not saying it isn't true). My last 3 day the rigs would have paid 3.4, and my last 4 day would have paid 4.5 extra! That is 7.9 extra pay in two trips! With rigs and pay raise, my pay would be $960 greater this month under the new rules.

I wouldn't bank on getting this money under the new TA. My guess is that the trips will be modified to make the rigs worthless as far as extra money goes. The whole intent of the rigs was to force the company to make more efficient trips. At least we should have more time off on the overnights or maybe some extra days off. We'll have to wait and see how their software handles the rigs.

 

[hindsight2020]

kool-aid is out. Talked to a new hire dead set he's gonna clear 30K first year and credit 120 hrs cause of the "sweet rigs of the new contract". At least he took some advice and moved to ATL instead of commuting. He did say his parents are "gonna help him out a little on the first year pay". I told him I'd see him later (I had to walk away).

 

[JoeMerchant]

This is wrong logic pal! You are the one who likes to criticize National ALPA for not acting in the best interest of the pilots. ASA pilots, alone, have the control in this situation to determine the quality of the ASA working agreement. That should make you happy! At this point, we need to fight to fix this contract!

Once again, you have misread my points..... ALPA national, mainline MEC's, apathetic regional pilots, and an extremely competitive environment, have all come together in a perfect storm.... This agreement is as good as it gets..... If you vote it down, it will be close to a year before you get another one to vote on, and it will be very similar to this one....

This isn't 1998, and ALPA has lost much of it's leverage due to the competition within a brand.... There are things I don't like about this agreement, but it is time to move and and fix the real reason we continue to fall behind..... This agreement isn't the problem.....

 

[scarlet]

Lets see a 3 year contract or wait at least another year or two for something different but not all that different???

There are ways to keep a little extra money from the bonus.

 

[dooork]

Sounds like ASA sucks!