Asa Ta No Way

[No Delay]

Originally Posted by scarlet
They will have to build trips around 24 hours a week or hire about 300 more pilots. Which means you will have an average of 15-16 days off.

Can you explain that statement? Last bid, I went through about 12-15 lines (4 days). Almost everyone of them a rig would have never came into play. The lines that would trigger a rig would only add 15 mins at the most. I think we will see 4 day trips, 7 or 8 hours of duty, 4-5 hours of flying...that would keep you right at the edge of a rig without triggering and it would be exactly what SH has been wanting all along.

Does anyone think differently?

 

[John Pennekamp]

If you're doing ANY type of training because its more money, YOU'RE DOING IT FOR THE WRONG REASONS ANYWAY!!!!! Please do all of us a favor and go back to the line....

AMEN!!!

 

[PositionandHold]

Everyone who thinks these Duty Rigs are huge doesn't realize that they are based on scheduled time.

The TA in reality sucks, especially considering it took 5 years. Send it back and let them tweak it. You never accept management's 1st offer.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Everyone who thinks these Duty Rigs are huge doesn't realize that they are based on scheduled time.

The TA in reality sucks, especially considering it took 5 years. Send it back and let them tweak it. You never accept management's 1st offer.

"This TA in reality sucks"? Is it better overall than what we currently have or worse? Tell me how good our current duty rigs are... wait, we don't have any!

Stop making ignorant statements which demonstrate a lack of understanding of the process. If we send it back, it will not be a "tweak", it will be a year minimum under an 8 year old contract, while heading into an economic recession. Smarten up!

Oh, and kindly enlighten us with how long you've been here and how many airlines you've worked for. I'd like to gauge your credibility, because I'm suspecting you're another Generation Y "I want my entitlement" pilot. Tell us how we "never accept management's 1st offer"? What a stupid statement.

 

[scarlet]

if you send it back--FINE it will be almost two years! The NMB told Airtran see you in 7-9 months from sep. so that is when they could meet again...

CAN you say goodbye 50s and skywest hello 70s

 

[WWEfan]

I voted "in favor" today.

 

[wms]

From Oh Please

If you're doing ANY type of training because its more money, YOU'RE DOING IT FOR THE WRONG REASONS ANYWAY!!!!! Please do all of us a favor and go back to the line....

AMEN!!!

If I said "If you're doing ANY type of flying for the money, YOU'RE DOING IT FOR THE WRONG REASON, do us all a favor and quit flying", I'd be lynched.
Funny, If pilots are willing to fly for less money, they're scabs. If Pilots have SJS because they're just happy to have a job, they're losers. If pilots are willing to cave for growth because they love to fly, they're a disgrace to the profession. Pilots shouldn't be willing to compromise to do what they love.

But your own co-workers are getting a raw deal and you don't care. In fact you tell them they should be ashamed for not wanting to take a pay cut. I love to do what I do. But the fact is, between the maintenance flights; flying with pilots who have never been above 10000', above 250kts, in class B airspace or have never flown a turbine aircraft, a check airman has more liability against his certificate than other pilots. And in the new contract it's even more so.

I'll vote no along with most other FSPs, and the contract will pass overwhelmingly. But I love what I do and will still do it, even with a pay cut. But I'm not happy about it. So much for no pilot left behind.

Hypocrites.

 

[JoeMerchant]

So much for no pilot left behind.

Some of us knew that was just a campaign slogan... There is no such thing in this business.....

People don't want to hear the truth.... they like empty campaign slogans much more....

 

[rightseatjocky]

you Can't Handle The Truth !!!!!
HEHE

 

[CFIT]

You guys may want to reconsider the provisio of the profit share language. What you guys have now is somewhat worse than the initial offer made to SkyWest pilots around two years ago, and as stated will only give ASA eligables less than half of what is in the books for the SkyWest pilots. And I'm not trying to start a fight but ASA margin has been running lower, generally than SkyWest.

You guys may want to reconsider.......

 

[Tarzan]

CFIT, I highly doubt you are trying to avoid an argument as you have demonstrated in the past, to always be seeking on out.

The regional carriers turned in the strongest results, with only Mesa Air Group (MESA:Mesa Air Group IncMESA 4.26, +0.07, +1.7%) taking a loss in the first quarter. Atlantic Southeast and American Eagle turned in operating profit margins of 12.9% and 11.2%, respectively.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...x?guid={E69C98B4-EAC2-4F30-A612-6479FABF6E87}

I generally fail to see SkyWest Airlines mentioned in the Highest Profit Margin articles while ASA is mentioned consistently.

 

[Tarzan]

Additionally, all the number I have looked up have ASA bringing just a little bit more dough than SKW. There are roughly twice the airplanes at SKW over ASA. With my limited knowledge of financial junk, I believe our airframes make twice what your's do.

Less money invest means less risk and greater return on your capital makes it a sweet investment vehicle. It still looks like Mr. Atkin bought himself a gold mine on which he has already had a full turn on the $330 million in cash invested. I guess there needs to be another year for the stock options and whatever else was used to facilitate the buy out of ASA, to get a full return.

 

[Tarzan]

Not to be starting an argument. And the contract will pass with 75% of those voting, voting yes.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Don't you think it would be best to keep our personal feelings and discussions about the TA on the ALPA discussion board? Some matters are best kept in the family.

HaHaHa
HaHaHa
HaHaHa
HaHaHa
HaHaHa
HaHaHa
HaHaHa

Thats some funny Sh!t there!

 

[USCtrojan]

Additionally, all the number I have looked up have ASA bringing just a little bit more dough than SKW. There are roughly twice the airplanes at SKW over ASA. With my limited knowledge of financial junk, I believe our airframes make twice what your's do.

Less money invest means less risk and greater return on your capital makes it a sweet investment vehicle. It still looks like Mr. Atkin bought himself a gold mine on which he has already had a full turn on the $330 million in cash invested. I guess there needs to be another year for the stock options and whatever else was used to facilitate the buy out of ASA, to get a full return.

Dammit Tarzan,

There you go using facts again. They tend to get in the way of a good argument. Just ask skyWhore.

Trojan

 

[wickedpilot]

"This TA in reality sucks"? Is it better overall than what we currently have or worse? Tell me how good our current duty rigs are... wait, we don't have any!

Stop making ignorant statements which demonstrate a lack of understanding of the process. If we send it back, it will not be a "tweak", it will be a year minimum under an 8 year old contract, while heading into an economic recession. Smarten up!

Oh, and kindly enlighten us with how long you've been here and how many airlines you've worked for. I'd like to gauge your credibility, because I'm suspecting you're another Generation Y "I want my entitlement" pilot. Tell us how we "never accept management's 1st offer"? What a stupid statement.

Ohhhh SNAP! Nice rebuttal, John.

Although, I have to admit, initially I wasn't impressed after reading the TA. I thought that surely we could produce better after 5 years. There are sections that I'm still not thrilled about it, but after reading the entire TA, attending the road shows and much evaluation I'll be voting in favor. The negotiating committee has reinforced that this is the best they can do. Voting no and going back to the table is only going to worsen morale, bring more stress and heartache, and keep us working under our current contract, like John said, at least another year.

There are sections that have room for improvement (CR7 pay, scheduled vs actual, commuter policy etc.) but we have to be realistic about ASA's current situation, the industry and know that negotiating is about balance.

 

[asayankee]

• Pay cuts for new hires before they get to IOE
• Pay cuts for instructors
• Pay cuts for everybody in vacation months if your under guarantee that month (which is most people!!!Read the MMG section CLOSELY)
• No real raise for 700 pilots
• A scheduling section that offers NO assurances to any QOL improvements (except days off)....everything is at the companies discretion
• Rigs that don't protect you for reschedules
• Only $13.5million for 5 years....Skywest has over $800 million in CASH and there's no more money than that?
• Worthless scope
• Payrates that don't protect 700 pilots for reconfiguring to 59 seats with a first class (it's coming...making us all 50 seat pay!)
• 1 hr of pay for 2.5 hrs of home/self-training...why did we take a cut from the 1:2 standard?

I voted NO

 

[John Pennekamp]

• Pay cuts for new hires before they get to IOE
• Pay cuts for instructors
• Pay cuts for everybody in vacation months if your under guarantee that month (which is most people!!!Read the MMG section CLOSELY)
• No real raise for 700 pilots
• A scheduling section that offers NO assurances to any QOL improvements (except days off)....everything is at the companies discretion
• Rigs that don't protect you for reschedules
• Only $13.5million for 5 years....Skywest has over $800 million in CASH and there's no more money than that?
• Worthless scope
• Payrates that don't protect 700 pilots for reconfiguring to 59 seats with a first class (it's coming...making us all 50 seat pay!)

I voted NO

Answer this VERY SIMPLE question:

Will YOUR net pay check go up or down?

 

[asayankee]

This month I would get about 1.5 hrs from the rigs...plus my 1% raise. It will go up.....slightly. Roughly $80 gross. I will easily lose more than that in vacation months though.

 

[John Pennekamp]

This month I would get about 1.5 hrs from the rigs...plus my 1% raise. It will go up.....slightly. Roughly $80 gross. I will easily lose more than that in vacation months though.

So you admit you'll make more money, yet you vote no.

You "lose" more in vacation months? Do tell...

 

[asayankee]

Extend your vacations and you MMG is adjusted on a percentage basis instead of just straight block hours. Doesn't affect you if you're over guarantee...but if your under, you get hosed.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Extend your vacations and you MMG is adjusted on a percentage basis instead of just straight block hours. Doesn't affect you if you're over guarantee...but if your under, you get hosed.

Oh, I see. So you're upset that the loophole in the current contract which allows you to extend your vacation for free (at their discretion) has been closed up. You're upset that you only get the vacation time you earned, not all the extra days you're "entitled" to. You're going to vote no because the sweetheart deal you've gotten the last few years is going (and three years ago they docked us for it, but that's ok).

Yeah, guess you better vote no, because unless ASA agrees to let you work two day trips with 20 days off a month for $150 an hour you won't be satisfied. Let us live in the age of entitlement, where companies exist solely for the purpose of giving us jobs and money to buy music at iTunes.

 

[difete]

When is this vote suppose to happen?

 

[Freebrd]

When is this vote suppose to happen?

where the hell have u been :smash:

 

[USCtrojan]

When is this vote suppose to happen?

It's going on right now, until November 20th.

Trojan

 

[asayankee]

Oh, I see. So you're upset that the loophole in the current contract which allows you to extend your vacation for free (at their discretion) has been closed up. You're upset that you only get the vacation time you earned, not all the extra days you're "entitled" to. You're going to vote no because the sweetheart deal you've gotten the last few years is going (and three years ago they docked us for it, but that's ok).

Yeah, guess you better vote no, because unless ASA agrees to let you work two day trips with 20 days off a month for $150 an hour you won't be satisfied. Let us live in the age of entitlement, where companies exist solely for the purpose of giving us jobs and money to buy music at iTunes.

Settle down Sparky.I work more than probably 90% of this company.....the way it works now though if I drop 20 hrs to extend my vacation outside my vacation footprint, I'm only docked 20 hours. I BOUGHT those days off they are not free. Now, I will buy those same 20 hrs off for MUCH more money. If I have 60 hrs on my final schedule those same 20 hrs cost me 25 hrs....ie PAYCUT. So I either make less money or have less vacation. Along with the other things I mentioned, I really don't think they accomplished much in 5 years. Also, the CNC's "strategy" of taking good notes during negotiations and hoping that they win grievance cases in order to protect out QOL is CRAP! And when you ask where that came from it was from one of the roadshows (I went to 2) directly from Mankamyer.

 

[Speedtape]

Settle down Sparky.I work more than probably 90% of this company.....the way it works now though if I drop 20 hrs to extend my vacation outside my vacation footprint, I'm only docked 20 hours. I BOUGHT those days off they are not free. Now, I will buy those same 20 hrs off for MUCH more money. If I have 60 hrs on my final schedule those same 20 hrs cost me 25 hrs....ie PAYCUT. So I either make less money or have less vacation. Along with the other things I mentioned, I really don't think they accomplished much in 5 years. Also, the CNC's "strategy" of taking good notes during negotiations and hoping that they win grievance cases in order to protect out QOL is CRAP! And when you ask where that came from it was from one of the roadshows (I went to 2) directly from Mankamyer.

Then you need to step your YankeeArse up to the plate and lead! But, first, vote NO! Do you know the process for doing that? Get to the Polls--they close a week from next Monday!

 

[Speedtape]

Extend your vacations and you MMG is adjusted on a percentage basis instead of just straight block hours. Doesn't affect you if you're over guarantee...but if your under, you get hosed.

The Norwegian brought you that piece of reindeer dung!

 

[Speedtape]

This whole contract was previously promoted on the great merits of the "Crown Jewel," Section 13 Scheduling section! How many of you remember that at the RGT lunches and in Negotiator's Notepad?

This Section 13 is concessionary like most of the rest of this contract! Many of us wanted something to vote on! Here's your chance!

VOTE NO, Hell No! Don't get sucked in by your signing bonus--even it could be better!

VOTE NO!

 

[BCpilot81]

Not saying which way to vote, even DN and JR both said at last Friday's roadshow @ the end they "know it could be better". Reportedly outside pressure almost forced it on us and the company. But before you vote NO; remember the inhumane process most of you have gone through for the past 8 yrs. This NMB, and it's agenda, would more than likely not entertain the idea of getting right back to the table. I agree there are huge flaws, but seniority and equip. out of the picture (because that is what creates bias, and rightfully so) it has to be admitted that it is better than we have now. Pray that the process is not repeated the next time around. I realize that I am very green in this entire process, and there is a good chance that I do not know what I am talking about, but I am just trying to extrude as much fact as I can from all of this.