ASA Screw Scheduling

[ohplease!]

I don't see what the complaining is about. He answered his phone on a off day. You are told in BI and during your training, dont answer the phone on a off day. I guess you learned it the hard way, get over it and take the pay, if not quit and get a job you can be home with your kids.

re -read the post

 

[Willy21]

I make sure my times are up to date at the time of the next duty in. I also still call in my out times so they're right and I don't have to wait 3-5 days for them to correct themselves off the paper work. We should all still call in the times.

It is not the on and in times they are changing. They are changing the flight plan times from what is published in the bid packet. (ie MSP - SLC is less block than SLC - MSP by 30 minutes) By doing that they think that they can create a legal extension or jr man schedule.

 

[Blucher]

re -read the post

Hate to admit it, but I finally agree with something Ohplease said. Jockey, please re-read the post.

-Blucher:erm:

 

[sweptback]

It is not the on and in times they are changing. They are changing the flight plan times from what is published in the bid packet. (ie MSP - SLC is less block than SLC - MSP by 30 minutes) By doing that they think that they can create a legal extension or jr man schedule.

I am not entirely positive on this, but I believe it is allowed for them to change the block times, provided that the release has been generated and realistic taxi times are included. Technically these would be "more accurate" since it would account for current winds, not a historical average, however I've never seen it go in favor of the pilot.

I would definitely double check the times vs. the release and the realistic taxi times though.

 

[ohplease!]

Hate to admit it, but I finally agree with something Ohplease said. -Blucher:erm:

now see? that didn't hurt so bad did it?

 

[AuburnRedneck9]

Excuse me, I was speaking of our semi managment puke, Oh Please. The tool has a friend in scheduling which is why they don't treat him like everyone else. I love it when scheduling calls it's like sport to see what kind of idiotic plan they have for you and how many different ways that it is illegal.

 

[Turkey Shoot]

See why it pays to drop pizzas off with scheduling when you're on reserve? some people call it sucking up, I prefer watching out for one's self ecspecialy when you're scheduling's biotch.

 

[ohplease!]

Excuse me, I was speaking of our semi managment puke, Oh Please. The tool has a friend in scheduling which is why they don't treat him like everyone else. I love it when scheduling calls it's like sport to see what kind of idiotic plan they have for you and how many different ways that it is illegal.

funny how anyone who doesn't agree with you guys is management. Just how many management pilots do you think ASA can have?... tool? why the name calling? not able to leave your middle school years? time to grow up and stop name calling when someone doesn't agree with what you're saying. maybe, just maybe, you're not as smart as you think. I know the older I get the smarter I was. I was the smartest human alive when I was in middle school. You'll see how it works once you grow up.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Willy, I understand what you meant by changing the times. I have had them do that for me so they can get a flight out on my block time. Per flica, I have gone over 100 2 times this month. They have to drop you back down to 97.30 and then they can do what they want. Again, to fit the trips in they want, yes they will manipulate the times to fit it in so someone can do it. I have had it done and when they do that for lets say jr man. I keep very good track of what I have flown in the month and for that trip I will still get over block and submit it in the pay form that way. When they do something like that, I just fly at .74 and I will make money that way, when they try to take off 30 minutes. It works both ways.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I am not entirely positive on this, but I believe it is allowed for them to change the block times, provided that the release has been generated and realistic taxi times are included. Technically these would be "more accurate" since it would account for current winds, not a historical average, however I've never seen it go in favor of the pilot.

I would definitely double check the times vs. the release and the realistic taxi times though.

Sweptback is correct. They routinely scheduled me with 2 minute taxi outs in Atlanta. They have also insisted on using CR7 block times for the ATR. The thing is that they know you are rushing like heck just to get your 8 hour block (9:55) actual of flying done so you can go home, eat, get some sleep, or whatever you do during the 332 hours left in the month after your 340 hours Time Away From Base.

Yes, you can call them on it. You will argue with them until you are "disconnected," then you call your dispatcher for the "real times," you call crew scheduling back, but they don't recognise what the dispatcher told you, the flight control manager and some assistant chief pilot get involved. In the mean time you could have flown a round trip to CYUL.....

After going through this a couple of times a pilot learns just to do the stupid MCN turn (after all, crew scheduling promises you will be off when you get back to ATL). The weather gets bad, there are ground holds and you end up back in ATL after 15:55 of duty. Crew scheduling then reminds you that you have 9 hours reduced in domicile because of "operational delay." But they are nice enough to tell you at 02:50 your duty in is now 11:50 for a 12:10 departure - "see you in the morning, I mean, umn, later today, he he he...."

It infuriates me that "operatonal delay" is "legal" because you could not fly an CR7 day line in an ATR with scheduled 2 minute taxi times.

You just have to get to the point where you tell the Bastards, "NO."

Crew scheduling might have been nice once, but when people are bailing out of ASA because of the lack of any future opportunity (to make the current sacrifice worth enduring) and the weather goes down - watch out. All they want is a butt in a seat, they don't care if their actions results in incidents, or accidents, that is your problem.

Crew Schedulers don't have Certificates, you do. Be careful.

Look up the definition of a slave:

Slavery is the social and legal designation of specific persons as property, for the purpose of providing labor and services for the owner without the right of the slave to refuse.

That is why I want to restrict involuntary junior maning in this next contract. I currently have 4 ocurrences, 3 of these were on my scheduled time off. If they want to fire me for refusing extensions when I'm fatigued, let them try.

Dave, Shelia and Rochelle need to be recognized as the true "Award of Excellence" winners they are.

 

[scarlet]

COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN--Alot of places are hiring LEAVE!!!!

 

[ATTCS]

The way they argue I think some of these folks are married......

 

[Turkey Shoot]

COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN--Alot of places are hiring LEAVE!!!!

Go away GoJet tool.

 

[Tomct]

Oh Please, you are so full of the Kool Aid it makes me want to uke:!! No one cares about what you THINK....you have been WAAAAAAAAY under the mgmnt tools desk for FAR to LOOOOOONG!!!

 

[Plug]

Every place is the same. Everyone is short and all reserves get the crap flown out of them. I hit 30 in 7, and then some with Int'l, every week. It is how the schedulers and managers deal with the situation. ASA has a long standing tradition of putting out only part of the fire. They are changing block times to make folks legal hoping nobody will catch them. I bet you didn't know you could go from KMCI to KDFW 30 minutes block to block. Anytime you see something this ridiculous on a pairing you should ask scheduling then a CP. If it smells funny and could get you violated then call your rep.

 

[asapilot]

Willy, I understand what you meant by changing the times. I have had them do that for me so they can get a flight out on my block time. Per flica, I have gone over 100 2 times this month. They have to drop you back down to 97.30 and then they can do what they want. Again, to fit the trips in they want, yes they will manipulate the times to fit it in so someone can do it. I have had it done and when they do that for lets say jr man. I keep very good track of what I have flown in the month and for that trip I will still get over block and submit it in the pay form that way. When they do something like that, I just fly at .74 and I will make money that way, when they try to take off 30 minutes. It works both ways.

Guys, you should know the kind of person this is coming from. This is coming from a guy who doesn't care about you or how scheduling treats you as long as he gets his money. This is a guy who didn't bother to enter a strike vote because he "..don't care since I'm going to Skywest anyway." Or, if you read his other posts on here, he voted no because he's been here 4 years and he should be a Captain by now. McCoy, why are you allowing yourself to be the company's b**ch? If they legally JM you, fine. But you're doing a great disservice to others by letting the company get away with illegal block/taxi modifications. I guess it doesn't matter since you're going to Skywest anyway. How's that going by the way? Let me know when you make Captain over there so I can tell my parents it's not safe to fly on Skywest anymore.

Normally I wouln't say anything about you, but you run your mouth too much in the crew lounge and it's time you realized this isn't all about you. We all pay the price when you bend over for the company.

 

[Palerider957]

COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN--Alot of places are hiring LEAVE!!!!

S-U-M-A-T!

 

[Blucher]

See why it pays to drop pizzas off with scheduling when you're on reserve? some people call it sucking up, I prefer watching out for one's self ecspecialy when you're scheduling's biotch.

Actually it's selling yourself and all your fellow pilots out. It's a complete lack of integrity and it's exactly the mentality that enables managements to divide and conquer with whipsaw tactics. If you stand back a bit, you might notice there's a bigger picture than just your need to get to a BBQ.

-Blucher:bomb:

 

[rjcap]

S-U-M-A-T!

So are you missing this place at all ????

 

[Palerider957]

That would be like missing herpes........check your PM's bro.

 

[737 Pylt]

ah ha! now you may be onto something here. PERCEPTION vs. REALITY.

Perception= You think you're cool
Reality= You are an ASS!
737

 

[Bizjet]

Willy, I understand what you meant by changing the times. I have had them do that for me so they can get a flight out on my block time. Per flica, I have gone over 100 2 times this month. They have to drop you back down to 97.30 and then they can do what they want. Again, to fit the trips in they want, yes they will manipulate the times to fit it in so someone can do it. I have had it done and when they do that for lets say jr man. I keep very good track of what I have flown in the month and for that trip I will still get over block and submit it in the pay form that way. When they do something like that, I just fly at .74 and I will make money that way, when they try to take off 30 minutes. It works both ways.

Your post states that have had them do that for your so they can get a flight out on your block time. So it's all about making the money and helping yourself? I was going to suggest you read the ASA PWA Chapter 13 Scheduling, Section L. Junior Assignment, Paragraphs 1-3, it appears you already know Paragraphs 4 & 5 verbatim. You should be enforcing the contract not encouraging others on how to give it away. FLIGHT TIMES can only be changed if the times are adjusted both on the outbound and inbound legs of a roundtrip if they are trying to extend you or Junior Man you. This according to the FAA usually is a wash and doesn't benefit the company to do so. Even then the company has to make reasonable assumptions to comply with the FAA's ruling on this. For those who don't want to assist the company in violating the contract and FAR's call the scheduling hotline, Pete Davis @ 928-899-8900. Also log the number of times you are Junior Assigned because ASA will not tell you the contracts protections. They will run out of pilots to DRAFT very quickly and then be unable to abuse you for DRAFT for the remainder of the year.

Rightseatjockey, I hope you are trying to leave ASA and are successful in the near future. Your selfserving attitude should make you high up on the Chief Pilots list if you stay.:angryfire uke:

 

[Bizjet]

Crew scheduling then reminds you that you have 9 hours reduced in domicile because of "operational delay." But they are nice enough to tell you at 02:50 your duty in is now 11:50 for a 12:10 departure - "see you in the morning, I mean, umn, later today, he he he...."

Don't forget the side letter provides you 1 hour from duty in in domicile before your first scheduled departure time. We won an arbitration on this and the company was directed to change the departure time to provide that one hour. That prevents being pushed to get the flight out on time and forces them to schedule the delay into your line. Make them comply!!

Look up the definition of a slave:

Slavery is the social and legal designation of specific persons as property, for the purpose of providing labor and services for the owner without the right of the slave to refuse.

Rumor has it that when the company terminates a pilot they give him/her a Copy of the Emancipation Proclamation because slaves can't be terminated only set free!

That is why I want to restrict involuntary junior maning in this next contract. I currently have 4 ocurrences, 3 of these were on my scheduled time off. If they want to fire me for refusing extensions when I'm fatigued, let them try.

Dave, Shelia and Rochelle need to be recognized as the true "Award of Excellence" winners they are.

We already have limits on the number of times you can be Junior Assigned in Chapter 13. Scheduling, Section L. Paragraphs 1-3.

 

[Tomct]

Perception= You think you're cool
Reality= You are an ASS!
737

:laugh:That is so true and yet one of the funniest things I have ever heard you say!! You hit the nail right on the head 73 pilot! Nicely Done!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Don't forget ...

Thanks Bizjet. Everyone should be familiar with those sections of the contract.

The problems are that our contract still provides nearly no relief in the area of involuntary extensions, junior manning.

What really helps is (1) Finally holding a schedule (2) Having the right attitude

 

[hoover]

My very first airline job was as a Crew Scheduler. I remember having to cover a Captain's entire month of flying because the company suspended him. Why, you ask? Because the moron taxied away from the gate with the cabin door open!

I remember having to cancel another flight because the idiot captain misread his schedule and didn't show up for his trip. He was at home, in another state.

I recall cancelling yet another flight because the Flight Attendant called in sick. She was sick, yet for some reason she had been seen out partying until the wee hours the night before.

My point here is that, half the reason you guys get drafted and extended so much, is because your fellow crewmember is doing something stupid or irresponsible. The other half are for reasons beyond the control of the Crew Scheduler.

They have a job to do, just like you. Yet you dont' see them on here bitching about those a$$hole crew members (well, except for this)

 

[Palerider957]

My very first airline job was as a Crew Scheduler. I remember having to cover a Captain's entire month of flying because the company suspended him. Why, you ask? Because the moron taxied away from the gate with the cabin door open!

I remember having to cancel another flight because the idiot captain misread his schedule and didn't show up for his trip. He was at home, in another state.

I recall cancelling yet another flight because the Flight Attendant called in sick. She was sick, yet for some reason she had been seen out partying until the wee hours the night before.

My point here is that, half the reason you guys get drafted and extended so much, is because your fellow crewmember is doing something stupid or irresponsible. The other half are for reasons beyond the control of the Crew Scheduler.

They have a job to do, just like you. Yet you dont' see them on here bitching about those a$$hole crew members (well, except for this)

That excuses some of the short-calls and extensions. ASA's Crew Sched department has many, many deeper and darker issues. There is a systemic attitude of "meat in the seat." They simply don't care about the contract, FAR's or common sense...abuse of flight crew is a sport, and an institution.

For every one of your "stupid crew" stories, I could give you a dozen "stupid/mean/jealous/vindictive scheduler" stories.

There have been some decent, and compassionate schedulers at ASA from time to time, but they didn't last long.

Lastly, you don't see them here bitching, because they don't have the courage. There is simply no excuse for some of the things they have done, and I think deep down most of them know it.

 

[Bizjet]

My very first airline job was as a Crew Scheduler. I remember having to cover a Captain's entire month of flying because the company suspended him. Why, you ask? Because the moron taxied away from the gate with the cabin door open!

I remember having to cancel another flight because the idiot captain misread his schedule and didn't show up for his trip. He was at home, in another state.

I recall cancelling yet another flight because the Flight Attendant called in sick. She was sick, yet for some reason she had been seen out partying until the wee hours the night before.

My point here is that, half the reason you guys get drafted and extended so much, is because your fellow crewmember is doing something stupid or irresponsible. The other half are for reasons beyond the control of the Crew Scheduler.

They have a job to do, just like you. Yet you dont' see them on here bitching about those a$$hole crew members (well, except for this)

If you are still in Scheduling you know you are a retard. If you are sharp they will move you out of scheduling and over to the ramp to act as a translator for the boys from the hood. Now get off this forum and go Junior Man some one.

 

[49W]

Are you BL?

 

[wms]

QUOTE
After going through this a couple of times a pilot learns just to do the stupid MCN turn (after all, crew scheduling promises you will be off when you get back to ATL). The weather gets bad, there are ground holds and you end up back in ATL after 15:55 of duty. Crew scheduling then reminds you that you have 9 hours reduced in domicile because of "operational delay." But they are nice enough to tell you at 02:50 your duty in is now 11:50 for a 12:10 departure - "see you in the morning, I mean, umn, later today, he he he....

A little known paragragh in the FOM, 2-1.11 or there abouts, After any duty day 15 hours or greater in or out of domicile, you're required to have 10 hours rest. It's not a contract or FAR issue, it's the FOM. In other words, no reduced rest after a 15 hour day.