ASA Scheduling Ready Reserve Spree

[SLUF4]

Well, I've been a lineholder and yes I have been extended and it sucks. I'm not mad that we have ready reserve. Like you said, it is a very valuable tool. What I dislike is the way in which it is assigned which you as a lineholder don't have to deal with. It seems to have gotten a little better, but even after scott's email a few months ago explaining they would not short call for it, I got short called several times a month for it and usually after they assigned me a trip out of order and we got that issue resolved.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

This is one of Brads favorites, now that he has it he will start with the rest of his favorites soon, you will soon hate him, his very competence will insure that the pilot cornholing will come fast and painfully, again I am glad he is your problem now!
PBR

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

Speedtape,

You are absolutely correct in that Ready Reserve is a great tool to prevent pilot extensions and improve our on time performance numbers. The problem arises when there are no restrictions or contractual language on the use of Ready Reserves. Scheduling has no limits on how many people they can have sitting RR at any one time, there was one day this month when I heard they had at least 7 crews sitting in the airport on a blue sky day.

All this could be solved with an MOU putting reasonable restraints on crew scheduling to prevent this from becoming a tool to abuse reserve pilots.

 

[Speedtape]

Speedtape,

You are absolutely correct in that Ready Reserve is a great tool to prevent pilot extensions and improve our on time performance numbers. The problem arises when there are no restrictions or contractual language on the use of Ready Reserves. Scheduling has no limits on how many people they can have sitting RR at any one time, there was one day this month when I heard they had at least 7 crews sitting in the airport on a blue sky day.

All this could be solved with an MOU putting reasonable restraints on crew scheduling to prevent this from becoming a tool to abuse reserve pilots.

Please answer the following in order listed:

1. What is an MOU and how does it work?
2. Is an MOU a unilateral agreement?
3. How many times were you on R.R last month?
4. How many times can R.R. be assigned in a month?
5. In any month, what is the most R.R. assignments that you have been assigned?
6. Are you paid to sit Ready Reserve?
7. How is R.R. a tool to abuse Reserves Pilots?
8. In your experience on Ready Reserve, about how many times (pct.) have you been assigned a flying assignment?

Thanks,
Looking forward to your response

 

[SLUF4]

Well, I'll respond to your questions too. Well a few of them, since I'm not a lawyer and didn't bring up an MOU. Of course you know we can be assigned it 6 times a month. Usually I get it 4 or 5 times. The most I have been assigned is 6 in a month. Yeah...I'm "paid" 4 hours credit, but usually am under 75 so it doesn't matter and E-trip only credits me 3.75, so it doesn't help me out in the bucket correctly either. Maybe they fixed the 3.75 thing-haven't had a RR where I haven't flown in a few months so I don't know. How is it a tool to abuse pilots? Well, my experience in the past was that I get it after I call them out on doing something incorrectly. This usually gave me RR til midnight on a short call. Things have gotten a little better, but I do personally know of one person that got assigned RR 5 days in a row once. As for assignments I'd say I fly about 85 percent of the time I have it and usually it ends up being a 2 or 3 day trip if I have late RR (which is often). If I have the very early one it is usually just a roundtrip or nothing at all. I know the FO's do not fly as much on RR. Also I feel that the company is not fulfilling their end of the deal with a lounge specifically for us on ready reserve. We basically have a jail cell we can't even get into in the morning because of the commuters. How many times have you had RR, speedtape?

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

SLUF, you answered more than I would have... Where to start... I'm not even going to answer the first two questions because if you goal was to talk down to me or make me look ignorant on contractual language, congratulations, I'm not a lawyer and I haven't held a union position yet. MOU, LOA, Amendment, pick a term, whatever it takes to put a few more guidelines on how scheduling can use Ready Reserves.

As far as the rest of your questions, it's obvious your goal is to make me or any reserve who doesn't like sitting Ready Reserve look like a bunch of complainers who should just be happy to have a job. Most pilots will b!itch about a 3 hour sit of airport appreciation, imagine how our pilot group would complain if everyone had to sit for 8 hours at a time. I'd like to know the answer to SLUF's question, how many times have you sat Ready Reserve? As with most contractual issues, because it only affects a small percentage of the pilots, it won't receive the same attention it would if the senior guys were being affected. I guarantee you, if everyone had to take their turn at Ready Reserve, there would be more scheduling rules in place.

All this being said, I'm fine with sitting on Ready Reserve, it serves a good purpose. The problem arises when scheduling calls in 8 crews at a time because they can and assigns RR based on the whims of the scheduler who happens to be on duty that day.

 

[Freebrd]

It sucks especially at 0600 when both lounges are filled with sleepers and the RR lounge is also filled up with commuting sleepers. Can't even watch TV

Tell your complaint to the CPs, or send an email to SH...won't get changed whining on here.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Tell your complaint to the CPs, or send an email to SH...won't get changed whining on here.

This will improve in April when the new lounge/operations area opens.

 

[SLUF4]

It has been told to them a long time ago and they put a sign up there. Does the sign keep people out? No.

 

[Speedtape]

Well, I'll respond to your questions too. Well a few of them, since I'm not a lawyer and didn't bring up an MOU. Of course you know we can be assigned it 6 times a month. Usually I get it 4 or 5 times. The most I have been assigned is 6 in a month. Yeah...I'm "paid" 4 hours credit, but usually am under 75 so it doesn't matter and E-trip only credits me 3.75, so it doesn't help me out in the bucket correctly either. Maybe they fixed the 3.75 thing-haven't had a RR where I haven't flown in a few months so I don't know. How is it a tool to abuse pilots? Well, my experience in the past was that I get it after I call them out on doing something incorrectly. This usually gave me RR til midnight on a short call. Things have gotten a little better, but I do personally know of one person that got assigned RR 5 days in a row once. As for assignments I'd say I fly about 85 percent of the time I have it and usually it ends up being a 2 or 3 day trip if I have late RR (which is often). If I have the very early one it is usually just a roundtrip or nothing at all. I know the FO's do not fly as much on RR. Also I feel that the company is not fulfilling their end of the deal with a lounge specifically for us on ready reserve. We basically have a jail cell we can't even get into in the morning because of the commuters. How many times have you had RR, speedtape?

FYI, I was on Reserve for over 2 years under the old system. I would have loved to have had the Reserve system that you have now; but, I had what I had. I am sure most of the 80 that just got furloughed would change places with both of us. We are still getting a paycheck. It's all a matter of perspective.

I am quite sure, that as long as they have had reserve pilots in this industry--it has sucked. Up until this contract, the Ready Reserve was the guy getting off his trip--sometime a 4 day trip. Pairings were built so that one more roundtrip could always be assigned. A few years ago, extensions were the norm. Most of us have been there also. Ready Reserve, in concept, is a much better alternative for the company and the rest of the pilot group than the previous practices. Sorry, that it is not pleasant for you. I have shared your pain--just in a different way in a Reserve system that was even more unpredictable and arbitrary in the way assignments were assigned.

Hopefully, you will not be on Reserve for over 2 years!

 

[Speedtape]

SLUF, you answered more than I would have... Where to start... I'm not even going to answer the first two questions because if you goal was to talk down to me or make me look ignorant on contractual language, congratulations, I'm not a lawyer and I haven't held a union position yet. MOU, LOA, Amendment, pick a term, whatever it takes to put a few more guidelines on how scheduling can use Ready Reserves.

My intent was not to talk down to your partner. Ready Reserve is Reserve.

As far as the rest of your questions, it's obvious your goal is to make me or any reserve who doesn't like sitting Ready Reserve look like a bunch of complainers who should just be happy to have a job. Most pilots will b!itch about a 3 hour sit of airport appreciation, imagine how our pilot group would complain if everyone had to sit for 8 hours at a time. I'd like to know the answer to SLUF's question, how many times have you sat Ready Reserve? As with most contractual issues, because it only affects a small percentage of the pilots, it won't receive the same attention it would if the senior guys were being affected. I guarantee you, if everyone had to take their turn at Ready Reserve, there would be more scheduling rules in place.

You are preaching to the choir. I sat reserve for over 2 years, 3 counting both positions, under the old system. I only wish the system of Reserve you enjoy had been available. On reserve, I have been called to the airport for an "assignment" only to have the assignment changed when I reached the airport, then held at the airport for several hours while or until they figured that they didn't need me. Under that system, you could be called to the airport for a ficticious trip, held, sent home, called back out, assigned one trip, sent home, and called back out. Then, even after holding a line, most of us still suffered through the "extension concept" where at end of the last day on every line, they still had the ability to assign you another round trip--a Ready Reserve de facto. You have the rules that you have because a majority of the pilots, who had suffered through the old Reserve, directed through surveys and polls that something better be developed. I hope that for all the capital we spent that it is better than what most of us endured. But, feel free to complain all you want because Reserve is Reserve and it is better here than at most other airlines that have no work rules. However, agreed, it still sucks.

All this being said, I'm fine with sitting on Ready Reserve, it serves a good purpose. The problem arises when scheduling calls in 8 crews at a time because they can and assigns RR based on the whims of the scheduler who happens to be on duty that day.

You are on the payroll versus furlough. They can have all available Reserves sit Ready, if they so choose. But, it is not to their benefit to do this as there are monthly limits for a pilot's assignability. You said that when you serve, you fly 85% of the time. Hmm! I am trying to see the issue. I am assuming that you do want to fly.

From my understanding, Ready Reserve was traded to get a "long call" Reserve and to eliminate, or for the most part mitigate, extensions. I hear the long call works well as those are the pilots that get assigned work most of the time. As far as extensions, Ready Reserve has diminished that "torture tool" greatly. However, even that will not go away, as it becomes the last line of defense when there are no Ready Reserves. Most airlines use the extension concept. By the way, under the extension concept, there is no seniority protection and we have all been extended, and probably will be again in the future. That sucks more! LET'S ALL QUIT! No, forget that, I guess it's still better than the alternative.

I am not talking down to you or any other pilot. For the record, I have not sat YOUR Ready Reserve, but most of us before you endured something much worse and we survived. However, collectively, using negotiating capital, we invested and tried to make it better for others that followed. Hopefully, it is better than the old. Most pilots I have spoken to that served under both systems, say the current system is better by far, but that Reserve is still Reserve!

Just curious, when you were first hired, how long did you sit reserve?

 

[USCtrojan]

You are on the payroll versus furlough. They can have all available Reserves sit Ready, if they so choose. But, it is not to their benefit to do this as there are monthly limits for a pilot's assignability. You said that when you serve, you fly 85% of the time. Hmm! I am trying to see the issue. I am assuming that you do want to fly.

From my understanding, Ready Reserve was traded to get a "long call" Reserve and to eliminate, or for the most part mitigate, extensions. I hear the long call works well as those are the pilots that get assigned work most of the time. As far as extensions, Ready Reserve has diminished that "torture tool" greatly. However, even that will not go away, as it becomes the last line of defense when there are no Ready Reserves. Most airlines use the extension concept. By the way, under the extension concept, there is no seniority protection and we have all been extended, and probably will be again in the future. That sucks more! LET'S ALL QUIT! No, forget that, I guess it's still better than the alternative.

I am not talking down to you or any other pilot. For the record, I have not sat YOUR Ready Reserve, but most of us before you endured something much worse and we survived. However, collectively, using negotiating capital, we invested and tried to make it better for others that followed. Hopefully, it is better than the old. Most pilots I have spoken to that served under both systems, say the current system is better by far, but that Reserve is still Reserve!

Just curious, when you were first hired, how long did you sit reserve?

I survived Erion Starker!

Trojan

 

[buscap]

Reserve just plain sucks. Ain't no lipstick gonna make it better. But there really is no such thing as "abusing reerves". The assignment is either legal or illegal. That's really the only issue worth discussing.

The system at ASA, despite it's volume and complexity, is still inconsistent. Some guys never get called, while others get called all the time. Sometimes it's apples and oranges due to different reserve call out times.

But reserve just plain sucks.

Some guys love it though. It's all about attitude.

 

[Speedtape]

Reserve just plain sucks. Ain't no lipstick gonna make it better. But there really is no such thing as "abusing reerves". The assignment is either legal or illegal. That's really the only issue worth discussing.

The system at ASA, despite it's volume and complexity, is still inconsistent. Some guys never get called, while others get called all the time. Sometimes it's apples and oranges due to different reserve call out times.

But reserve just plain sucks.

Some guys love it though. It's all about attitude.

The abuse part needs defining. Does he mean they put them in a small enclosure with a hot tin roof, insert toothpicks under the finger nails, use the water drip method, pull teeth with no local, or shock treatments with electrodes? Wait, that's only at Guantanamo, not the Ready Reserve room.

Maybe, he means, a room with easy chairs, color TV, Xbox, heated and cooled, Great airport food at your disposal, an indoor bathroom, surrounded by plenty of 'HOT" flight attendants(well maybe, an occasional "hot one"),comraderie that can't be found anywhere, and plenty of time to read, watch movies, study, do revisions while you get paid--and last but not least, all while you pick up a guaranteed paycheck, with a quarterly bonus that Ready Reserve helps insure for all pilots. Now, that's abuse! And, 85% of the time, you get to live the dream! Axe yourself the question, "What's a furloughed pilot doing right now?"

Something to look forward to: I hear that there will be a work-out area in the new pilot lounge. Now, we will all have a chance to get Buff and ripped, even Beal!

 

[Speedtape]

I survived Erion Starker!

Trojan

Oooohhhh! Trojan, that caused a terrible flashback to what abuse on reserve really was! I am still scarred from her reign! Thanks, for reminding me. I guess most of us earned something similar to the purple heart for surviving that era! Too bad the employee assistance program didn't exist then, because most of us could have used the counselling.

 

[HoserASA]

I survived Erion Starker!

Trojan

Aw man, now I'll have nightmares tonight! Thanks alot Trojan! She was a witch, and a bitch for sure. Seemed like she enjoyed hosing pilots & F/As. She screwed me many times. I recall talking to Ed Paquette about her, and he said yeah, she needs to go. She did shortly after.

Hoser
Roll Tide!

 

[777forever]

Something to look forward to: I hear that there will be a work-out area in the new pilot lounge. Now, we will all have a chance to get Buff and ripped, even Beal!

Now that would make my day if its true!

 

[SLUF4]

Yeah; i'm sure they'll love us to work out and get all sweaty and then be assigned a trip 10 minutes later. I'm all for it though, I don't care. I'll quit complaining about RR on here, but I don't wanna hear any "whining" about your 3 hour airport appreciation.

 

[Speedtape]

Yeah; i'm sure they'll love us to work out and get all sweaty and then be assigned a trip 10 minutes later. I'm all for it though, I don't care. I'll quit complaining about RR on here, but I don't wanna hear any "whining" about your 3 hour airport appreciation.

I forgot to mention--the rumor is that there is also a shower or 2. Although like most, I would choose to be productive, I love 3 hour appreciation time. I usually have things planned to take advantage of the time--other than sitting in the crew lounge wallering in melodrama. I choose my glass to be half full!

 

[Abernathy]

I forgot to mention--the rumor is that there is also a shower or 2. Although like most, I would choose to be productive, I love 3 hour appreciation time. I usually have things planned to take advantage of the time--other than sitting in the crew lounge wallering in melodrama. I choose my glass to be half full!

What they need is a pool table.