ASA Says Pilots' Demands Are Lofty

["GO AROUND"]

atr, ifly is right, we get block or better whether we are early or over. So you wouldn't lose that time if you are over guarantee.

I don't have any experience with trip rigs, but the duty rigs would benifit nappers very much.

 

[MajorAv8r]

Say SKW/ASA doesn't fit DAL's cost box. How does DAL replace 1200 daily departures (according to the SKW,inc web site)?

Just for the record, 841 today.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Just for the record, 841 today.

I think he was combining SKW and ASA departures for DAL.

 

[Crash Pad]

Ok am I missing something... Have you all missed how it works now. You will get the contract you want. Ok maybe not even what you really want but just something better than you have now. 6 months will pass and you will see more and more MESA, CHQ, Skywest mainline (I like that new name) in Atlanta. Then whoops the 22 70's won't show up do to "the competative environment" they will end up at Skywest mainline. Then the ATR will go away and be replaced by Mesa etc... A year from now comes the reduction in 50 seat flying... Skywest has an 80% garantee... whoops read the fine print. Lots of catches.
How does management break a Union and replace 170000000 departures or whatever you say we have. That is how. Take a look around we are the bottom feeders. Oh we make a buck or two more than MESA but honestly. We did the above scenario to mainline. See also Comair, Coex, Mesaba...

After playing out that scenario explain to me if you are an FO or junior captain how long term that will help you out. Lines slowly get worse not better. Upgrade disapears. But oh wait you get an extra $2.00 an hour. Or you get paid an extra hour of pay on a three hour sit.

Again I say we match Skywest contract to the letter... All you 50 guys take a raise I take a pay cut... The pay cut will be offset by senior guys leaving the 70 and my bid improvment. If you want a big pay raise switch airlines. I know you can't do that you just got 15 days off and are making pretty good money and I commute so starting over at the bottom... Hey want to impress me take another job that shows a company they don't pay you enough.

This is my second airline. I've been around long enough to know that I am not King Kong. I am a small easily replacable commodity. If I let my ego get the best of me I end up like Comair, Delta, United, NWA, Mesabe, Coex. You think you can find another job that will let you work half the month, health, dental, travel, 401K, and still let you make 80+. Fire up your resume and do it. I dare you. Trust me I've looked it is a lot harder than you think.

 

[ASAFOE120]

There better be some kind of BIG retro check or signing bonus after all the debt I've incurred working for this place the last 4 1/2 years. I dont care if SKKW Inc. has never payed retro or says they never will or whatever. It will be an automatic no vote from me if this is not included. PERIOD!

 

[ASADFW7]

My days of a dreamer are over. I think the posturing of negotiations will match us to the current Skywest contract. What is behind us is behind us, what is in front of us is more important. I think there is a emphasis on the past, and basically I like to look where I am going not where I have been. With each round of information for the negoitations the real deal will not come until the 24th hour. The rest of the information will just get those interested a lot of gas and a major case of heart burn trying to making negotiations fair. Who said anything about fair. It is only business. You want fair? It doesn't exist any more.

 

[atrdriver]

atr, ifly is right, we get block or better whether we are early or over. So you wouldn't lose that time if you are over guarantee.

I don't have any experience with trip rigs, but the duty rigs would benifit nappers very much.

Well, I'm sorry that I can't explain it correctly, but if you go back and look at your checks you will find that you get underblock pay in addition to overblock pay, assuming that you are over guarantee. We are paid "block or better" BECAUSE of premium pay. Take it away and we lose that. Ask MJ when she comes back from her leave. Underblock pay is a fairly significant part of your overall pay.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Well, I'm sorry that I can't explain it correctly, but if you go back and look at your checks you will find that you get underblock pay in addition to overblock pay, assuming that you are over guarantee. We are paid "block or better" BECAUSE of premium pay. Take it away and we lose that. Ask MJ when she comes back from her leave. Underblock pay is a fairly significant part of your overall pay.

You know, I'd never thought of that before. Premium makes up for the fact that you didn't fly your scheduled block. So premium guarantees that you make at least block. I thought there was a separate clause in the contract for that. Premium should be called "block guarantee" or something else.
Thats what happens when you don't learn the contract early on. Thank you for the clarification, sir.

 

[shamrock]

Glad I'm not the only one confused about what losing premium will mean. I was thinking along the same lines as atrdriver so that's why I asked.

I can understand losing it if you're under guarantee, but if we lose it when we are overblock for the month we are essentially losing "block or better". Based on my paystubs for the past 6 months I would lose at least 4 hours of pay a month in that situation. Not acceptable.

If they were to eliminate premium when underblock but keep some sort of "block or better" I might be willing to listen, but only in exchange for some other considerations.

 

[wms]

Just for the record, 841 today.

The SKW,Inc website says SKW and ASA combined have about 1200 per day for DAL.

Also, Block or better plus trip and duty rigs and 100% retro pay. We don't need to lower our expectations because of DAL's woes, the cost box or other airlines. The fact is we're profitable big time and it's due to our efforts, and we deserve to be paid commensurate to our contributions. If SKW lowered their fees to DAL to keep the business it can come from the profits, they're not gonna lose money.

 

[Illinois]

Both pilot group's need to quit pretending we are still two separate carriers.

Skywest Inc. has/is shuffling resources, and reneging on promises as necessary to decrease cost. That's their job. We need to capitulate now, and move on to have any control of our collective future because divided we have none.

ASA Pilot's need to accept a contract that is identical to Skywest's agreement with our pilot's. We all need to accept that total integration give us more leverage(not control), and will provide INC. with additional cost savings. Finally, Skywest Pilot's need to accept that DOH integration is the only way to piss everyone off equally.

None of this is good for either group individually, but I would rather put all this crap behind us. Fighting Mesa and Republic/Shuttle/Chautaqua as one group is the only way to have an upward affect on our future.

The Brady's made it work, and I wouldn't mind meeting Marsha!

 

["GO AROUND"]

I guess I am wrong, I never thought of premium as block or better. Not giving that up without something to make up for it.

As far as I know we are not asking for more than SKW's contract in pay. But QOL is so far from anyone elses now and in their proposal that it's pathetic.

 

[atrdriver]

Premium pay IS what gives us block or better. Where we have it nice is that it is paid on top of guarantee. That's what helps the nappers and the ATR guys. But remember that everything that we do is on a leg by leg basis, so regardless of what your line is blocked to that underblock (premium) pay makes up a substantial part of your final pay.

 

[ohplease!]

That is not really a true statement. Premium is paid on a leg by leg basis, on top of guarantee. My last check I was paid 6.7 hours of premium, and 7 hours of overblock. If premium was eliminated, that would have been 6.7 hours of pay I would not have gotten, even though I was obviously over guarantee. If you take away premium pay you are going to take a paycut, period. The only way that I would agree to having premium cut is with a min day, trip and duty rigs, on a day by day calculation, not the way CMR does theirs, which is on a monthly lookback basis.

You are wrong. Ifly is 100% correct.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If we did not have premium, my pay would have been cut $3,700 last year. It is around 8% of a lineholder's pay and probably the entire reason why we have our on time performance. Premium motivates the crew to get out of the gate on time and arrive early, if reasonably possible.

Lets see, the airplane costs around $2,500 an hour to operate. The crew gets paid around $110 an hour (including the F/A) I would rather pay the crew $18.70 if they saved $425 in operating costs by picking the most efficient altitudes and worked the system to get around other traffic (getting checklists done in a timely manner and being ready for taxi calls, etc...)

In my view, premium is a win / win. But the Company's bean counters are not experienced enough to realize that pilots can, and do, make a difference. To them we are only cost units.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

CAN I GET AN AMEN!

A FUCKING MEN

 

[atrdriver]

You are wrong. Ifly is 100% correct.

Ok, so tell me then how we get paid "block or better"? It is through the underblock program, which is also known as premium. Read the contract, not managements propoganda. Go look at your paycheck, and see how much "underblock" you get every month. Then tell me if you want to give it up.

 

[bailout]

>You fly a 40 hour nap line and say get 6 hours premium. Your pay will be 75 hours + 6 hours to equal 81 hours.

Now if you have an 83 hour line premium does nothing for the paycheck (if you fly a 2 hour blocked roundtrip, and do it at 1.75, your pay is 1.75 hours plus the .25 premium to bring it back to 2 hours). Regardless of cancellations you are always gauranteed the 83 hour minimum line, plus any overblock.

If they do away with premium, it just means you will only get payed 75 hours max, if you bid a line that's blocked less than 75 hours.<<


No, No,.. what they are proposing is losing premium. You are paid in order of 1)flight time, 2)plus credits, 3)plus premium.

Lets say you are blocked to 80 hours. You flew 76. You get paid 76 hours, plus credits, plus premium, Which in this case would have to be the difference 4 hours, for a total of 80 hours. (assuming no credits) There is no such thing "block or better". The only way to get your line value is to either fly it, or fly less and get premium. You will lose this if they get their way.

If you are underblock, as in Naps, you will get 75 hours and no premium.

 

[shamrock]

Its going to be a lot of fun flying around ATL if we lose premium. All of a sudden everyone will be "operationally limited" to .70M. That outta gum up the works a bit.

Just out of curiosity, how do other airlines deal with this? Do most have some sort of "block or better" deal going?

 

[79%N1]

Fine, they can have premium if they want......Bur NEVER block or better!!!!!! Talk about regression! Of course, people will avoid naps like the plague! The company is crazy to take block or better, as crews will just go slow! Duh! But, go ahead and take your premium, give me trip rigs and block or better.