ASA Says Pilots' Demands Are Lofty

[rjcap]

One More Time.

TRIP AND DUTY RIGS !!!!

TRIP AND DUTY RIGS !!!!



OF course - no pay concessions either.

 

[IFLYASA]

OK, I have what might be a simple question to everyone but I'd just like some clarification.

What exactly are we talking about with regards to eliminating premium? I'm clear on what premium is, but how will things change? I do naps once in a while and shoot for premium because it's the only way to make money. That pay on top of guarantee would go away if I understand correctly. Now if I do a normal trip blocked to 20 hours but end up early on several legs and fly only 18, what will I get paid for? Will I lose the 2 hours underblock as well?

I'm not as dumb as I look, I swear. Just trying to understand how it all would work.

You fly a 40 hour nap line and say get 6 hours premium. Your pay will be 75 hours + 6 hours to equal 81 hours.

Now if you have an 83 hour line premium does nothing for the paycheck (if you fly a 2 hour blocked roundtrip, and do it at 1.75, your pay is 1.75 hours plus the .25 premium to bring it back to 2 hours). Regardless of cancellations you are always gauranteed the 83 hour minimum line, plus any overblock.

If they do away with premium, it just means you will only get payed 75 hours max, if you bid a line that's blocked less than 75 hours.

 

[shamrock]

If they do away with premium, it just means you will only get payed 75 hours max, if you bid a line that's blocked less than 75 hours.

Wel that'll take all the fun out of naps!

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Premium is the most absurd thing ever. The fact that they want to do away with is in our favor. Hopefully the CNC will "trade" premium for something else that actually helps. The only thing premium does is encourage some pilots to fly fast and waste fuel. Not very smart of ASA to negotiate in the first place. The duty/trip rig will take care of the nap people, assuming we can negotiate them.

 

[wms]

Premium is the most absurd thing ever. The fact that they want to do away with is in our favor. Hopefully the CNC will "trade" premium for something else that actually helps. The only thing premium does is encourage some pilots to fly fast and waste fuel. Not very smart of ASA to negotiate in the first place. The duty/trip rig will take care of the nap people, assuming we can negotiate them.

I'm a napper and I agree, trade premium for trip and duty rigs. Premium is incentive to waste fuel, and trip and duty rigs are incentives for scheduling not to waste our time.

 

["GO AROUND"]

I hope the CNC counter proposal slams the companies 3 yr opener! Then we will see what the companies next move is. Will it be actual negotiations or more of their BS.

I've been giving 3 yrs of concessions and I'll be da*ned if I'm gonna give up what we already have back unless it's like rigs for premium.

 

[shamrock]

I hope the CNC counter proposal slams the companies 3 yr opener!

Management: "So let us get this straight, you want a minimum of 15 days off, trip and duty rigs, an 85 hour guarantee, a 20% pay raise, AND full retro pay?"

Contract neg. committee: "Yes, that would be correct."

Mgmt: "You've got to be kidding!"

CNC: Yeah, well you started it!"

 

[Tomct]

Man Shamrock, you read my mind exactly. They better get started on printing those backpay checks though, I have a HUGE loan to pay off!
Strike Vote Now!!

 

[atrdriver]

You fly a 40 hour nap line and say get 6 hours premium. Your pay will be 75 hours + 6 hours to equal 81 hours.

Now if you have an 83 hour line premium does nothing for the paycheck (if you fly a 2 hour blocked roundtrip, and do it at 1.75, your pay is 1.75 hours plus the .25 premium to bring it back to 2 hours). Regardless of cancellations you are always gauranteed the 83 hour minimum line, plus any overblock.

If they do away with premium, it just means you will only get payed 75 hours max, if you bid a line that's blocked less than 75 hours.

That is not really a true statement. Premium is paid on a leg by leg basis, on top of guarantee. My last check I was paid 6.7 hours of premium, and 7 hours of overblock. If premium was eliminated, that would have been 6.7 hours of pay I would not have gotten, even though I was obviously over guarantee. If you take away premium pay you are going to take a paycut, period. The only way that I would agree to having premium cut is with a min day, trip and duty rigs, on a day by day calculation, not the way CMR does theirs, which is on a monthly lookback basis.

 

[IFLYASA]

That is not really a true statement. Premium is paid on a leg by leg basis, on top of guarantee. My last check I was paid 6.7 hours of premium, and 7 hours of overblock. If premium was eliminated, that would have been 6.7 hours of pay I would not have gotten, even though I was obviously over guarantee. If you take away premium pay you are going to take a paycut, period. The only way that I would agree to having premium cut is with a min day, trip and duty rigs, on a day by day calculation, not the way CMR does theirs, which is on a monthly lookback basis.

Are you sure about that?

If you are overblock, and your flight was 4 hours round trip, and do it in 3.5 hours, you are still guaranteed the 4 hour flight because it's on your final schedule. You are saying without premium, you will only get 3.5 hours. IF this is part of the plan to diminish premium, EVERY pilot would fly too slow to avoid this and the performance numbers would diminish. I think they just want to get rid of the "underblock premium", like what the nap people prosper upon.

Besides, we won't vote on that anyway, so it doesn't matter.

 

["GO AROUND"]

atr, ifly is right, we get block or better whether we are early or over. So you wouldn't lose that time if you are over guarantee.

I don't have any experience with trip rigs, but the duty rigs would benifit nappers very much.

 

[MajorAv8r]

Say SKW/ASA doesn't fit DAL's cost box. How does DAL replace 1200 daily departures (according to the SKW,inc web site)?

Just for the record, 841 today.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Just for the record, 841 today.

I think he was combining SKW and ASA departures for DAL.

 

[Crash Pad]

Ok am I missing something... Have you all missed how it works now. You will get the contract you want. Ok maybe not even what you really want but just something better than you have now. 6 months will pass and you will see more and more MESA, CHQ, Skywest mainline (I like that new name) in Atlanta. Then whoops the 22 70's won't show up do to "the competative environment" they will end up at Skywest mainline. Then the ATR will go away and be replaced by Mesa etc... A year from now comes the reduction in 50 seat flying... Skywest has an 80% garantee... whoops read the fine print. Lots of catches.
How does management break a Union and replace 170000000 departures or whatever you say we have. That is how. Take a look around we are the bottom feeders. Oh we make a buck or two more than MESA but honestly. We did the above scenario to mainline. See also Comair, Coex, Mesaba...

After playing out that scenario explain to me if you are an FO or junior captain how long term that will help you out. Lines slowly get worse not better. Upgrade disapears. But oh wait you get an extra $2.00 an hour. Or you get paid an extra hour of pay on a three hour sit.

Again I say we match Skywest contract to the letter... All you 50 guys take a raise I take a pay cut... The pay cut will be offset by senior guys leaving the 70 and my bid improvment. If you want a big pay raise switch airlines. I know you can't do that you just got 15 days off and are making pretty good money and I commute so starting over at the bottom... Hey want to impress me take another job that shows a company they don't pay you enough.

This is my second airline. I've been around long enough to know that I am not King Kong. I am a small easily replacable commodity. If I let my ego get the best of me I end up like Comair, Delta, United, NWA, Mesabe, Coex. You think you can find another job that will let you work half the month, health, dental, travel, 401K, and still let you make 80+. Fire up your resume and do it. I dare you. Trust me I've looked it is a lot harder than you think.

 

[ASAFOE120]

There better be some kind of BIG retro check or signing bonus after all the debt I've incurred working for this place the last 4 1/2 years. I dont care if SKKW Inc. has never payed retro or says they never will or whatever. It will be an automatic no vote from me if this is not included. PERIOD!