ASA Says Pilots' Demands Are Lofty

[Crash Pad]

OK, look at what you are saying. you have just named a large number of airlines here. Most of us can find other jobs and i think that we have to look at it and say "is it worth it anymore." We can't live on this pay and everytime we accept another concession and do this job for less than adaquate compesation, we are replacing the very jobs that we are slaving for. WE HAVE TO STOP DOING THIS!! What are YOUR plans. To stay here get your time and then move to a major. There won't be any "major" jobs if we keep trying to undercut each other. WE WILL BE THOSE JOBS. The income that I make now is easily replaced with most jobs.

First some facts. We can't get other jobs. We could get a job with MESA CHQ, etc... If you could go to FedEX, SWA, UPS, or AirTran... smart money says you should have already left. My wife was job hunting in Atlanta. Not an idiot Masters degree and work experience. She is making less than me without 401K and some other bennies... So this job market we can all jump into and easily replace this crap one with doesn't exist.
What am I doing? I can see that the American aviation market has matured. I am looking overseas... If I have to stay here I will get my time and send my resume to someone with a higher payscale. I have looked at airline pilot central and there are companies out there that pay more than ASA. There are also a lot that pay less.
An industry leading contract that leads to less growth and a 10 year upgrade significantly slows me down.
The way I see it the industry is total sh!t right now. We are not going to change it. Give me skywests contract and I'm good to go.

 

[FL990]

CrashPad, you are operating under the assumption that there will be massive amounts of hiring at the major level in 3 or so years. THINK AGAIN. Every time we take a cut, we replace one of those better paying jobs. Every time we get 2 or 3 RJ's, we replace a 757 job. Attrition alone won't supply enough vacancies. Oh they will be hiring in about 6 years or so...enough to fill retirements. BY THEN, YOU WILL BE IN A POT OF 12000 OTHER PILOTS THAT QUALIFY FOR THE 2000 JOBS. How do you like those odds??

Furthermore, when do the cuts stop. We take a cut...who do you think they will go to next...especially if we are below SKYWEST airlines...they will go to them. Then when they take a cut, they will come back to us for more the next go around. Not necessarily with a conventional concession, but every year we go without a cost of living increase in pay, we take an effective pay cut.

And like I said in my other thread, they will keep offering bigger and bigger planes. Make no mistake about it, 100 seat+ offers are coming. And they will want us to do it for the same wage as we make now. And if we say yes, we will once again be shooting our long term futures in the foot. you say that the industry is in the toilet right now, insinuating that it will eventually get better for us...It never will as long as there are those who think as you do...and there always will be. I thought like that several years ago as well. I made the same arguments that you do now. THERE will always be a "you". That is not a cutdown man...sorry to sound like a jerk. I am just saying that if we continue to work for less and less with the dilusion of pay my dues and get the dream job, we are cutting our legs out from under us because the dream job will be replaced by this nightmare!!

 

[SLUF4]

I like how in the new memo on E-docs it says we need growth or the company will fail. I guess management fails to realize that they need us PILOTS or the company will fail (I don't think Willy has his ATP). This new proposal is a slap in the face.

 

[Flyer1015]

SkyWest Inc will be the leaseholder of the ASA passenger gates in ATL. It would be difficult for Delta to replace them with another carrier in ATL because gates are a limited resource, and are now controlled by Skywest Inc.

 

[P-Dawg_QX]

If anyone brings up Horizon I will vomit. Nice contract with a 7-8 year upgrade. Guess what if you upgrade in 5 years you will make more than horizon. I've heard of 15 year captains on reserve... Sweet and by sweet I mean totally awesome! If only I could get lucky enough to work in those conditions.

Ahem....

"Horizon"

Commence vomiting, b!tch.

 

[sweptback]

SkyWest Inc will be the leaseholder of the ASA passenger gates in ATL. It would be difficult for Delta to replace them with another carrier in ATL because gates are a limited resource, and are now controlled by Skywest Inc.

EXACTLY! This is what people don't realize. We have enough leverage to get this done, don't let anybody talk you out of it.

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

Why is it that SW can afford to pay the highest rate for their equipment and yet the company still plans on growing ad infinitim? Yeah the fuel hedges help but not all the way, so come up with another excuse. Yes I know that ASA is not in competition directly with SW but it shows that there are mngt teams that are competent(sp?) and what effect it has on the business. Remember post 9/11 when everyone was f-loing? SW honored a former promise and gave raises right? That kinda of action buys employee loyalty that goes a long way in keeping customers happy and coming back. Would you folks at ASA expect anything from the mngt peeps?

Why should pilots at ASA, Delta, etc. have to subsidize both the american publics travel pleasure and the poor management skills of their respective management teams? And who says that ASA really *needs* concessions? Maybe the mngt. folks are just trying to see how much they can squeeze from the pilot group.

Maybe all the mngt. folks everywhere know that their time of preferential treatment from the NMB will cease at the end of this presidential administration so they had better get what they can while the gettin' is good. I have been an 'R' for my entire life but next election sorta looks like the 'D's will be back in. Maybe I'm wrong.

BTW Thanks for illegitimately stretchin' the RLA to us, John McCain, U Frickin DORK! I Wonder how much jing/$ that got him?

'Deserving a contract' is a Non sequitur. You get what you negotiate. Plain and simple. Think about it, ASA just got a new guy at the helm. His retirement plan hinges on this contract. If he gets a good deal for SKW, all he has to do is keep the ship semi- on course then it's sailin' in the caribean for the rest of his life with skip. He really couldn't care less what the impact is on your life or anyone else. He has worked to get to this point because he knows that it's only a 3-5 year road that ends in a virtual lottery ticket retirement. So it becomes a simple emotionless business deal. A simple lie here or a little unethical act there... SO WHAT. He'll be gone by 2010. It is business, nothing personal...... Except for you and the next guy/girl. You are in the same style of environmrent when you negotiate for a vehicle.. I had one dealer let me walk out of the office when I said I'd pay retail. He acted like I wanted his daughter. The next dealership said great and it was the exact same car/price. The first dude just gambled and lost. It's the same here.

I think our biggest weakness here is that from day one of our training, way back when, we have been conditioned to do the 'right' thing. We are in a (pretty much) self-policing field that requires a lot of dicipline. You know, do the right thing even if no one is watching....work hard, show up ready to work etc, do your best to make up for the crappy airserve contractor that they won't fire because of $$$$. Who cares if somebody's GrandMa gets stuck on a plane for 30 minutes and missed a flight? Nobody from mngt has to stand there and witness this.

We are dealing with businessmen. They show up unprepared, stall for 3+ years etc because it is what is best for them. Not because it is ethical and the right thing to do. They do it because it is more profitable for them. As long as it's legal (supported by the NMB) it's just business. e.g. Where we ASA pilots were shocked,insulted,upset,peeved,torqued at mngt's first proposal in 3+ years, they(mngt) sees it as a strategic/tactical move to get our expectations low and maybe, just maybe it'll be taken. Then they will scream BK, CHTQA,MESA,CMR ETC and finally "settle" on a contract that is less than labor wanted. And walk away wondering when they should spend the retirement earnings.

Why hasn't there been a call for an 8% reduction er... uh, I mean "CORRECTION" in the COO's salary?

Just my ramblings....


BTW.... HORIZON!!! hehe

AND WHERE IS THE GENERAL???? I miss his input.

 

[scarlet]

Crash pad--how long have you been in the industry...Keep drinking the company juice and go work for USair...There you can work some days for FREE...

All those Airline MANGT teams are just plain DUMB!!!! People running the airlines that have never held a job in the industry but mangt. If one airline takes a pay cut and it sticks --GUESS WHAT---well hope you can figure it out,, they all jump on board!!!! Even Airtran wants pay cuts now, because everyone else is doing it.

HOW about raising the airfares and running a business than trying to fix the companies problems with pay cuts--that is their business plan-take care of the employees and they will take care of the customer--Gordon Bethune--it works trust me--I was there for 9 years

Horizon--their employees are happy so they do their jobs!! lets see if we don't pay our pilots horizon's pay 4.00 an hour for every hour our pilots work how much money do we save? ummhhh but if our pilots take mesa pay we reall save...WOW

 

[scarlet]

yeah is everyone in the company taking 8-10% pay cut??

Answer from SKYWEST????

 

[HughBeamont]

When in jeopardy, plan to negotiate, see what they say, possibly reciprocate, and if that doesn't fly, burn the place, figuratively of course, to the Fricking ground. Burn, baby bury, regional inferno, regional inferno.....

I think we're all going to know that anthem soon.