ASA proposed pay scale!!!

[goodto50meters]

Dudes...............We are F*@ked on this! Mgmnt is showing their teeth here, and I'm not sure they are backing down! With proposals like these, I suspect SKW wants to get rid of us 'problem childs' and is directing LiarBreque to force us into a strike and non-existance. I mean, be real..........to say your ready to get a deal done, and come out with these proposals is ludicrious! That said, the rates ALPA proposed were pretty rediculous too! 19% increases at this time is stupid to put on the table. This is a hugh stalemate, with neither side coming from reality. Anyway, SKYW wants to make us cheap lift, a la Mesa so they can grow, on the back of labor.

Take it easy...

Management is showing their ass not 'showing their teeth'. After 3.5 years of having OUR OPENER they quote from it, Pathetic to say the least. Also keep in mind that compensation HAS NOT been discussed at the table yet due to the BS delay and obstruct tactics by La Liars 'Team'.

LaLiar and his minions are up against the wall here for their own survival, dont forget this point. How much we pilots cave is directly proportional to ASA managements level of survival and bonus package in the SkyWest harem.

Notice that management conveniently left out Horizons payscale on their little rag 'update'.

This is desperation on managements part folks, and I would argue is a GOOD sign. They know what the reaction from us is over their stalls and especially last weeks proposal which was fit for only one thing...wiping my ass. They are scared that they are about to loose their little kingdom over in the Glass-Tower. This is not about competition in the industry it is about them personally! If they signed an agreement with Delta that makes it hard to make high profits without stealing from us, tough shiott! They will just have to bid for flying and accept a lower profit margin, I will not be a whore! I will not finance their aircraft, this is their job! SkyWest realizes the economies of scale by their sheer size, eliminate ASA's redundant incompetent management and 16th place operation and run it with people who have a clue. Picking my pocket just aint gonna happen, this job just is bearly worth it now.

Anything less than the work rule changes and modest increases in pay accross the board with COLA backpay will get a NO vote from me. BTW, this means a separate 50 and 70 pay scale. Sorry LiarBrecque.

YES to STRIKE!
YES to my MEC!
YES management is full of shiott!
NO to the 'RoadMap'

Hey I have an idea.....lets all co-mat this stupid management update back to LaLiarque and clog the mail.....give him something to manage...

 

[Jeepman]

So what are the proposed pay rates?

 

[79%N1]

OK, I see your point. However, if they are indeed up against the wall and in need of completing the contract quickly, as they say.......then, why such a lowball offer. I think that they have been given a number from SkyW and they must meet it or they will turn the screw to us, a la ACA, AirWis, Mesaba and Comair. I'm no management koolaid guy, but I think Im beginning to see they can drastically shrink us and pump in more CHQ, Mesa or Comair if THEY tow the line. Either way, I dont think I'll want to work here anymore!

 

[ASAFLY2]

We have to fight for this contract. If MGMT gets their way, a 5 year contract will mean no cost of living increase for 11 years, and that is if we get a new contract on the next ammendable date. You are probably looking at 15 years with no COL increase. I think most ASA pilots know we will not get a big pay increase, but work rule improvements are a must. MGMT is proposing concessions in areas we are already behind industry standard. Don't think BL and the group will do the right thing in the future and "take care of us". When the company does well, and they will, MGMT will get the credit along with bonuses and stock options. They have showed us that they don't value us or the job we do. Many of the other employee groups at ASA have a unfavorable opinion of the pilots. A big reason for this is the crap that MGMT spews about us. We need a strong showing in this strike vote. A big yes vote could prevent a strike by showing MGMT how united and determined we are.

 

[goodto50meters]

Of the many public facts and quotes out about SkyWest/ASA here is a basic and very telling quotable quote from SkyWest website:

"Our cash position will remain strong through the acquisition supporting daily operations as well as providing for future oportunities. Our new Delta contracts will be profitable from day one."

Sorry Brian, take your 'roadmap' and shove it up your ass.

 

[Plug]

The company has finally started negotiating and presented their low offer to counter our high offer. This is a sign that it is the beginning of the end. There is a lot of middle ground. What the company is too narrow-minded to figure out is that a lot of the QOL issues we have would also make ASA much more efficient but they are just too blind and can't get past the whole control issue. These next 2 months should be interesting.

 

[DwayneWorthless]

Ha ha. You guys will be the Lowest paid in the industry and when your Flight Benefits get cut, retirees will bump you off of your own airplanes. See what we've done for you? Don't forget to pay your DUES.

 

[AutoTransfer]

I read somewhere recently with regards to negotiations: "If your first offer doesn't embarrass you and whomever you're negotiating with, it was too high." This is how I’m looking at Management's "opener" (POS). It's just a shame that their "opener" (POS) comes 3 & 1/2 years into negotiations. LaB and his cronies are looking at this like they just pulled their head out of the sand and realized, "whoa, we've got negotiations going on with our pilots."

With regards to the 19% pay raise that management refers to, that was supposedly an initial proposal based on Comair pay rates earlier last year. I believe it was Comair + 1% over the term of the contract. This was not unreasonable for the time it was proposed and the pilot’s Contract Negotiation Committee have not had an opportunity to counter propose managements "opener" (POS).

The real question is: Does management have realistic expectations of how these negotiations will proceed? We'll probably know with the next couple of negotiating sessions. If they don't move at all, then the pilots won’t be the only ones brushing up their resumes.

Say what you will, but I believe that ASA pilots are some of the best in the industry (although some might say I'm slightly biased.) The vast majority of us want to have a smooth, safe, on-time operation. To do so, we constantly have to cover operational shortcomings, push through the abuse by screw scheduling, and choke down the occasional dry holiday cookie. Well, at least we did before the beatings began.

You can include my YES vote when the strike ballot is distributed. If Management holds us in such low regard, then they deserve to be deprived of our worthless services.

AT

 

[Sinca3]

1) The ALPA rates that are in that "company" update are from 3/05 and the opener from ALPA. ALPA gave the company all of their proposals around that time so it makes perfect since. The rates for Comair are the "proposed new" rates that they have yet to vote on!!
2) The whole purpose of negotiations is to meet in the middle. It will be done!
3) I firmly believe ASA can have rates on par with CoEx or even slightly better than Chautaqua, but Horizon rates are a different beast. They are wholly owned subsidiary of a specialty airline that has some of the highest fares out there. Therefore there pay is going able to be higher, atleast for now. As for Horizon work rules.....Bring'em, they are some of the better out there!!
4) Thank you FDJ. Your post was exactely what we at ASA need to hear from an outsider. It is hopefully what the vast majority of or group will take to heart.
We Will Get A New and FAIR contract or We Will Vote NO NO NO NO NO..........

 

[Crash Pad]

You can get Coex, or CHQ plus 10%. Then in a few months you slowly get replaced. I've already got the resume on the street both aviation and otherwise. The employment picture isn't that hot. I'm just looking to replace 30 and change. You guys looking for 60-80K will be shocked.
Skywest exact contract.

 

[US Flyer]

Cost savings

THEY NEED TO LOOK ELSEWHERE FOR COST SAVINGS FIRST. Come to our group last, after you can show me how many areas you have addressed to save money and be more efficient.




.

 

[US Flyer]

..........

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

1. Why did I have to see the proposed rates from ALPA on FLICA? Why didn't the union publish them?

2. Why have the ALPA reps. been telling me that we aren't asking for much? If those rates are any indication, we are asking for quite a bit.

Don't get me wrong, I love those rates - however under the current situation, I believe they are as unreasonable as the companies position. I am having a difficult time believing either side.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

ALPA- $45.00 second year FO... How come no one thinks that might be a little high. I get it the company low balled but ALPA was excessive.
I'm shooting for an exact replica of Skywest. I think they have the work rules you all want. For those of you burn it down types that don't have your resume on the street I suggest you shop it around a little. You might be surprised.

Exactly, the company low balled and ALPA overshot. Actually, the way things are going, our current rates won't look too bad after CMR and Mesaba take paycuts.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

ALPA- $45.00 second year FO... How come no one thinks that might be a little high. I get it the company low balled but ALPA was excessive.

CrashPad= Management! That you Dillon? Hall? Tutt? LaConfused?

I'll take Dillon, Hall, and Tutt over Danny, Nelson and Bubba anyday. I guess if you don't automatically believe everthing the union says, you must be management.

 

[Texx]

OK, I see your point. However, if they are indeed up against the wall and in need of completing the contract quickly, as they say.......then, why such a lowball offer. I think that they have been given a number from SkyW and they must meet it or they will turn the screw to us, a la ACA, AirWis, Mesaba and Comair. I'm no management koolaid guy, but I think Im beginning to see they can drastically shrink us and pump in more CHQ, Mesa or Comair if THEY tow the line. Either way, I dont think I'll want to work here anymore!

Why should we take cuts if our costs are already lessthan CMR, SKYW and MESA? Have they shown you our costs in their proposal? No they have not. They know that if they do you will see that we are already at the bottom and you want to go lower?

 

[Texx]

I'll take Dillon, Hall, and Tutt over Danny, Nelson and Bubba anyday. I guess if you don't automatically believe everthing the union says, you must be management.

Hall is in the same class as Chuck T.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Hall is in the same class as Chuck T.

I disagree. Hall came and spoke to our recurrent class and while I can't agree with everything he said, most of it was much better than we are used to hearing. For example, he said captains don't need to call a chief pilot if they don't feel the weather is safe and dispatch is trying to get them to go anyway. He said if the captain doesn't feel it is safe, that is the end of discussion. Definately not what we used to hear, and definately not something Chuckles would say.

 

[Texx]

I disagree. Hall came and spoke to our recurrent class and while I can't agree with everything he said, most of it was much better than we are used to hearing. For example, he said captains don't need to call a chief pilot if they don't feel the weather is safe and dispatch is trying to get them to go anyway. He said if the captain doesn't feel it is safe, that is the end of discussion. Definately not what we used to hear, and definately not something Chuckles would say.

But he didn't give you the complete answer.

You will be contacted by the CP for your side of the story.

So it really isn't the end of the story. You just don't know what is taking place behind the door.

If your worried about this kind of problem you need to grow a set.

 

["GO AROUND"]

I disagree. Hall came and spoke to our recurrent class and while I can't agree with everything he said, most of it was much better than we are used to hearing. For example, he said captains don't need to call a chief pilot if they don't feel the weather is safe and dispatch is trying to get them to go anyway. He said if the captain doesn't feel it is safe, that is the end of discussion. Definately not what we used to hear, and definately not something Chuckles would say.

Yeah, that's impresive for him to say. That's been the policy for the 5 1/2 years I've been here. But you had better have a good reason for thinking it's unsafe when doing your carpet dance.

Hall is too new to this company to be saying the things he is saying. He needs to get an understanding of the whole 3 1/2 yr situation and not just the few months he has been here.

Heard the other day that he was saying the scheduling section was almost complete. However, I heard from our CNC chairman that it is maybe 50% done. If that is almost done to him then we have a long way to go.

 

[ohplease!]

But he didn't give you the complete answer.

You will be contacted by the CP for your side of the story.

quote]

so what if you have to talk to a CP? They're not gonna kill ya' and eat ya'. They need to know both sides of the story so they'll have all the info they need for the morning meeting. I guarantee you they will back YOU up if it is a reasonable refusal. You'd be surprised at some of the things that dispatch/scheduling will tell them when you refuse a flight. Or maybe you wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Texx]

They're not gonna kill ya' and eat ya'. They need to know both sides of the story so they'll have all the info they need for the morning meeting. I guarantee you they will back YOU up if it is a reasonable refusal. You'd be surprised at some of the things that dispatch/scheduling will tell them when you refuse a flight. Or maybe you wouldn't be surprised.

Like Kim, a CP, telling a pilot to wash his underwear out in the hotel sink since a station lost his bag.

Scott has stated that the line pilots are held to a higher standard then his own Chief Pilots!

Yeah, he's smart as a stick.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

But he didn't give you the complete answer.

You will be contacted by the CP for your side of the story.

So it really isn't the end of the story. You just don't know what is taking place behind the door.

If your worried about this kind of problem you need to grow a set.

Actually, I don't have a problem with it. If a CP wants to call me to hear my side of the story before flight control makes up some BS about what happened - that's a good thing. I've said NO several times and never had any problems with the chiefs. I just agree with Scott, that once the Capt. says no, it doesn't matter what dispatch says. I've noticed a change in Flight Control and Scheduling since they went under Flight Operations - and it has been a change for the better. Perfect no, better yes. I've learned that you should praise those who are trying to improve things - lest they return to the old way.

 

[HoserASA]

You go TEXX!


Hoser​

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Heard the other day that he was saying the scheduling section was almost complete. However, I heard from our CNC chairman that it is maybe 50% done. If that is almost done to him then we have a long way to go.

I had a union rep. tell me last week that we weren't asking for much. Now I hear we still have our opener for payrates on the table - a 19% pay raise and the highest amongst DCI carriers. I don't believe either side anymore.

 

[Freebrd]

I had a union rep. tell me last week that we weren't asking for much. Now I hear we still have our opener for payrates on the table - a 19% pay raise and the highest amongst DCI carriers. I don't believe either side anymore.

Yeah, keep that 19% alive there Hall,uh, Dillion, uh, Tutt????
We deserve more than 19%, but you fail to mention that's an older offer. Let's wait and see what our CNC proposes in a week or two, then you management types can crow all you want. BTW, what's the bonus yall management types are promised IF you can get this done by March?

 

[ohplease!]

Like Kim, a CP, telling a pilot to wash his underwear out in the hotel sink since a station lost his bag.

.

yeah, just like Kim. She's done a good job if you ask me. Much better than many of the previous CP's we've had. I have no doubt that situation was taken completly our of context. But taking things out of context is the only way for guy's like you to make the situations fit your conspiracy theories.

what would you do if you ran out of clean cloths on a trip? Wear dirty ones? I'd wash them somewhere, and have more than once, even if it was in the sink. Most places we stay overnight have guest laundry or theres a laundry nearby.

 

[Freebrd]

yeah, just like Kim. She's done a good job if you ask me. Much better than many of the previous CP's we've had. I have no doubt that situation was taken completly our of context. But taking things out of context is the only way for guy's like you to make the situations fit your conspiracy theories.

what would you do if you ran out of clean cloths on a trip? Wear dirty ones? I'd wash them somewhere, and have more than once, even if it was in the sink. Most places we stay overnight have guest laundry or theres a laundry nearby.

Darn, how many screen names do you have Dillion, or is it Hall this time??? You obviously don't know the full story on the 'wash it in the sink' episode. And, like one has time or energy, after a 12-13 hour duty day, to go to a laundrymat! Kim, yeah, righttttttttttt!

You management pukes disgust me!

 

[outtahere]

yeah, just like Kim. She's done a good job if you ask me. Much better than many of the previous CP's we've had. I have no doubt that situation was taken completly our of context. But taking things out of context is the only way for guy's like you to make the situations fit your conspiracy theories.

what would you do if you ran out of clean cloths on a trip? Wear dirty ones? I'd wash them somewhere, and have more than once, even if it was in the sink. Most places we stay overnight have guest laundry or theres a laundry nearby.

Ohpu$$y I have just the right airline for you! Colgan Air, they are non-union, merrit gets you everywhere, a good A$$ kissing gets you a long way. You would be perfect for them. Oh and I think they are hiring street captains so you wouldn't even have to suffer as an FO. Colganair.com dude you're there. OH Please get the hell out of my UNION!!!

 

[outtahere]

Oh and take Avoiceofreason with you!