ASA MEC endorses TA/Bonus formula published...

[Oakum_Boy]

I worked out the numbers. It is a fair distribution. And at what airline does an FO get the same singing bonus a CAP does? None. Thanks for playing.

Now as far as a 12 hour callout changeable on a whim to 2, and then to 10 minutes? WTFO?

 

[sea6t]

If you want to be treated as a CA then UPGRADE, I feel no remorse for someone that didn't upgrade and now want's to. Grow up or get out of the business if you can't handle the responsibility.

the responsibility.... hmm.
the issue is not so much that i would expect the senior FOs to be treated as captains, as that i would expect an ALPA-represented, dues paying pilot to be represented by ALPA. if i wanted to get screwed, i could do it for free! the senior guys take their FO pay and don't complain, or at least only complain as much as everyone else. but really- why would five years in contract negotiations be of different value for captains and FOs in the Contract Delay category? But, you know, thanks for the suggestion. Maybe i will get out of the business because I can't handle the scary, daunting responsiblity of flying a 50 seat jet around. maybe someday i will be as good a pilot as you.

 

[FishandFly]

I worked out the numbers. It is a fair distribution. And at what airline does an FO get the same singing bonus a CAP does? None. Thanks for playing.

Now as far as a 12 hour callout changeable on a whim to 2, and then to 10 minutes? WTFO?

Since when is this a signing bonus. This isn't 1984 and we should not covertly transition from reimbursement for lost pay to a Christmas present.

 

[shelton]

I worked out the numbers. It is a fair distribution. And at what airline does an FO get the same singing bonus a CAP does? None. Thanks for playing.

Now as far as a 12 hour callout changeable on a whim to 2, and then to 10 minutes? WTFO?

The argument is not for FOs to get the same signing bonus as a captain. Longevity should be rewarded, but there is no reason the portion allocated to contract delay pay should be 60% of captains for FOs. It should be equal based on years at the company during the negotiations.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Before you FOs get all wound up, I'm pretty sure that the 60% comes from the fact that you make 60% of captain pay at ASA, which is a lot more than at most comparable airlines.

Why would it be fair for you to get the same bonus a captain gets, when it's proportional to his salary, and a windfall compared to yours?

If it were that way, I'm sure none of you would be complaining. But would it still be "fair" to the majority?

 

[www.]

Before you FOs get all wound up, I'm pretty sure that the 60% comes from the fact that you make 60% of captain pay at ASA, which is a lot more than at most comparable airlines.

Why would it be fair for you to get the same bonus a captain gets, when it's proportional to his salary, and a windfall compared to yours?

If it were that way, I'm sure none of you would be complaining. But would it still be "fair" to the majority?

And the 60% is only up to 5th or 6th year pay. If your in the right seat longer than about 3 1/2 to 4 years that's your call isn't it?

 

[goahead]

And the 60% is only up to 5th or 6th year pay. If your in the right seat longer than about 3 1/2 to 4 years that's your call isn't it?

"You Are Correct Sir"

 

[shelton]

I strongly recommend telling your FO that he got the pay raise and signing bonus he deserved with this TA. He will probably offer to buy you a beer for your intellectual insight. With the new found knowledge and understanding I now have I will spend my $52.38 signing bonus on a captain hat. I cannot wait to take on all that responsibility.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Did the FO's who walked the picket lines for the past five years give only 60%?

Compensation is status-dependant; signing-bonuses are not based on your status. Now if it were retro-pay, then I would agree with you.

A signing bonus should only be based on years of service...particularly those years served while negotiating.

 

[goahead]

the responsibility.... hmm.
the issue is not so much that i would expect the senior FOs to be treated as captains, as that i would expect an ALPA-represented, dues paying pilot to be represented by ALPA. if i wanted to get screwed, i could do it for free! the senior guys take their FO pay and don't complain, or at least only complain as much as everyone else. but really- why would five years in contract negotiations be of different value for captains and FOs in the Contract Delay category? But, you know, thanks for the suggestion. Maybe i will get out of the business because I can't handle the scary, daunting responsiblity of flying a 50 seat jet around. maybe someday i will be as good a pilot as you.

Well your not a CA, and you don't UNDERSTAND the responsibility, decision making, liability, blah, blah involved with being a grown up. I have a hard time taking you serious since you've been on here for two months w/4 posts.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I strongly recommend telling your FO that he got the pay raise and signing bonus he deserved with this TA. He will probably offer to buy you a beer for your intellectual insight. With the new found knowledge and understanding I now have I will spend my $52.38 signing bonus on a captain hat. I cannot wait to take on all that responsibility.

I get the feeling some of you think that the playing field should be level. I got news for ya.... It's not.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Since when is this a signing bonus. This isn't 1984 and we should not covertly transition from reimbursement for lost pay to a Christmas present.

This is a signing a bonus and always has been..... some of you believed that "100% retro" was going to happen.... it never was, and even if it was, then only the 200 captains and the ATR captains would get anything....

In terms of "retro pay", only the 200 captains have been paid below industry the last 5 years.... everyone else has already been getting industry leading pay those 5 years... sorry, but them's the facts....

 

[JoeMerchant]

This is rather amusing.... shows you that all this "brotherhood" BS falls by the wayside when you start talking about real money....

This is a signing bonus, not retro pay..... only the ASA Coalition promised a signing bonus... the current administration pushed the "100% retro"..It wasn't delivered as promised.......

 

[rightseatjocky]

Joe,
I look at it like this. If a First Officer thinks he is getting the shaft, he doesn't have to vote for it, or anyone for that fact.
I am not sure if it a better contract than most, but I can say that it is a start in the right direction. This contract is only good for 3 years and we can build upon this one and next time get what we want.
With the airlines not being able to get First Officers we can certainly start demanding more money, but it has to get worse before it gets better.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe,
I look at it like this. If a First Officer thinks he is getting the shaft, he doesn't have to vote for it, or anyone for that fact.
I am not sure if it a better contract than most, but I can say that it is a start in the right direction. This contract is only good for 3 years and we can build upon this one and next time get what we want.
With the airlines not being able to get First Officers we can certainly start demanding more money, but it has to get worse before it gets better.

I agree rightseatjocky....I'm just amused at how quickly the "brotherhood" falls apart when people think they are getting screwed.... This comes as no surprise to me..... I don't really believe in this ALPA "brotherhood" anymore..... I am voting yes.... time to move on....

 

[rightseatjocky]

My vote is Yes as well Joe.
Yes, when it comes to money whether it is a brotherhood or family. Money tears everyone apart.
Again, I vote yes and Yes, it is time to move on.

 

[JoeMerchant]

My vote is Yes as well Joe.
Yes, when it comes to money whether it is a brotherhood or family. Money tears everyone apart.
Again, I vote yes and Yes, it is time to move on.

Cheers!....
:beer:

 

[TOOL CRIB]

The simple fact is, there are more captains than first officers on property. If this vote just came down to the signing bonus, it would pass.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The simple fact is, there are more captains than first officers on property. If this vote just came down to the signing bonus, it would pass.

EXACTLY.... The fact is, the majority of the pilots are getting a large raise and a big signing bonus....When it comes down to it, everyone looks out for number one............ and that ain't you......

 

[twott driver]

**** you all. Put it in plain english and give me a dollar amount and I might think about it.Just for the complication factor, you (might) get a NO vote from me.

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