ASA furloughs 80 pilots

[zawillif]

Furloughs suck. Period. But bickering among the pilots about who's picking up open time, or who's not donating $$$ etc. isn't helping the situation. Personally, I take this as a kick in the ass to do everything I can do, to make ASA a viable option for future growth. That is the only way we are getting these guys back, and everyone needs to get on board with that. There are still a lot of crews who are apathetic to fuel conservation, D-0 and customer service. So instead of arguing, second guessing our management, and cursing Delta, do something about it. There's 1630 of us after Feb. 9th who can give the furloughed guys the biggest gift of all, and that's just by doing our jobs, and doing them in the most efficient, professional manner possible.

I nominate The Nuge for president of FI for the day.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Furloughs suck. Period. But bickering among the pilots about who's picking up open time, or who's not donating $$$ etc. isn't helping the situation. Personally, I take this as a kick in the ass to do everything I can do, to make ASA a viable option for future growth. That is the only way we are getting these guys back, and everyone needs to get on board with that. There are still a lot of crews who are apathetic to fuel conservation, D-0 and customer service. So instead of arguing, second guessing our management, and cursing Delta, do something about it. There's 1630 of us after Feb. 9th who can give the furloughed guys the biggest gift of all, and that's just by doing our jobs, and doing them in the most efficient, professional manner possible.

Will somebody please log McNugent out of the hotel computer. I don't think I've ever heard him write something so poignant.

I've already been doing this stuff, and will continue to do so.

 

[CFI2766]

well then, step back and take a deep breath...I'll wait..........ok, better?

Now, if you feel that the company did everything they could and put off furloughs as long as possible and laid off a few as possible, then by all accounts, even yours, everything has been done that could have been done.

There was always open time before (forever) and there was no problem with people picking it up.....if everything has been done to soften this blow....and even according to you it has....then why should picking up open time now be any different than before? Its not going to bring anyone back any sooner than they would have gotten back anyway.

Now I see your point. I don't necessarily agree with it, which, is okay in the grand scheme of things.

It will just fall to RES first then JM next and if that doesn't get it, it'll get canceled which directly affects our performance/reliability and that will directly affect future flying (negatively) and they may NEVER get back. possibly even being joined on the street by more of our fellow ASAers.

Concur. I am not, in any way, suggesting that I would do anything to harm the company. That would only put the recall further back in time for these guys/gals.

What's different now than just a couple of years ago is that the current management has made a compelling argument that the best interests of ASA are the same as the best interests of the pilot group.


BTW, if you do see a list, what will you do? vandalize their car/home/bag/mail box? punch them out? What?

Nah, I'm no internet tough guy; that's not my thing. Though capable, if I have to physically assault someone to make a point, that individual is probably not worth the effort and time. However, it would be interesting to see a list of folks who pick up open time to see if the name of any of my ex-friends are on that list.

Several names of people that I currently call friends are on the list that will be out of a job as of 9 Feb.

 

[cheerios2]

Feed your family? Really?

If you cant feed them on 75h .. havent you overextended yourself a bit?

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Yes. That is EXACTLY what I'm advocating.

If the company can cover the open time with the amount of pilots on the active roster, why should the company recall the furloughs?

Look, I'm not throwing a barb at the company here. It's an awful situation; apparently it appears to be a situation that the company put off as long as it could. (Granted, I have only the obvious public information. As a line flying, habitually fatigued, underpaid, pilot, I probably do not have all of the facts.) The company is doing what it can in the interests of its shareholders first. Frankly, that's the way business works.

If I were one of the guys furloughed, as we all could be, I would want the guys left on the schedule thinking about me in the same way that I'm thinking about them. As pilots, no one will ever look out for us but ourselves. Bottom line, if you pick up open time at ASA, you are keeping an ASA pilot out of a job.

Initial open time or future open time? There is a difference, after all.

One thing to consider is that the staffing projections look historically at how many crews it takes to cover a given amount of flying. That includes historical levels of picking up open time, sick calls, etc.

So, the company decides how many to furlough based on that staffing model. They then furlough the 80 people, but now no one picks up open time (in your perfect world), so the staffing model is incorrect. So now line pilots get extended more frequently, and get paid more money to fly time and a half when it could have cost the company just straight time.

The fact is that the staffing model is set, and picking up open time or not is certainly not going to lose or save anyone's jobs. It is purely in your head that you are making a difference.

I understand the sentiment, and it certainly is not a good situation we have going here, but monkeying around with the system will only make things worse.

Besides, if you think anyone is REALLY going to show any solidarity and not pick up open time, you are smoking something. When it is all said and done, people are going to do what they have to do for their families. That has been shown time and again in this industry.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

However, it would be interesting to see a list of folks who pick up open time to see if the name of any of my ex-friends are on that list.

Several names of people that I currently call friends are on the list that will be out of a job as of 9 Feb.

If such a list were to be compiled, I would be on it, and I know that you know who I am. I am excellent friends with a few in the list to be furloughed, and in no way do I feel like I am doing them a disservice. I would tell them all to their faces that I will continue to pick up open time. No shame at all in it. So what if a list is compiled. Hell, I'll sign a sheet on the wall for you.

The fact is that picking up open time is one of the key parts to the operation running smoothly, and that is the best way to get those 80 back. If our operation tanks because of uncovered trips, more heads will be on the chopping block when Delta removes even more of our schedule.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Feed your family? Really?

If you cant feed them on 75h .. haven't you overextended yourself a bit?

Exactly!!
Some people make it sound like you are snatching the slender crusts of bread directly from their children's hands.

Stop splitting hairs and rationalizing it. You know it is wrong to pick up open time. If we start canceling flights as someone above suggested, affecting our completion factor, then we will recall.

Also, to the the loudmouth 13 year captain from Dallas in the crew lounge saying for days he couldn't live on less than 85 hours and hoped we furlough ..... ******************** you!! You got your wish. Happy now?

 

[Metro752]

The fact is that picking up open time is one of the key parts to the operation running smoothly, and that is the best way to get those 80 back. If our operation tanks because of uncovered trips, more heads will be on the chopping block when Delta removes even more of our schedule.

Idiot, you're doing the furloughed pilots a disservice for sure. A real rotten one at that.

If the company needs more pilots to cover flying, they shouldn't be furloughing, and should be hiring. You're just one of the reasons why the race to the bottom is speeding up. If they need to cut pilots, and can't cover the flying, then obviously they won't do the flying.

Are you some kind of dense management kool-aid drinking stooge, or just management in disguise?

 

[CFI2766]

Initial open time or future open time? There is a difference, after all.

The difference here would be what? FWIW, this is the only area where I could personally see a small amount of give and take. If you are looking in IOT to replace time dropped for a vacation or perhaps some sort of other training event, just to get your line back to the minimum line value, I could see that as potentially justifiable. To pick up open time so that you can increase your earnings above the minimum guarantee is still keeping a furloughed pilot out on the street.

One thing to consider is that the staffing projections look historically at how many crews it takes to cover a given amount of flying. That includes historical levels of picking up open time, sick calls, etc.

So, the company decides how many to furlough based on that staffing model. They then furlough the 80 people, but now no one picks up open time (in your perfect world), so the staffing model is incorrect. So now line pilots get extended more frequently, and get paid more money to fly time and a half when it could have cost the company just straight time.

Nah, my world's not perfect. But, neither is your logic, here, either.
If the staffing model is not correct, I would expect the company to do the most cost effective thing to remedy that situation. If it really costs the company more to extend pilots (doubtful, but possible), the correct, logical thing to do would be to bring some, or all, of the furloughed pilots back.

The fact is that the staffing model is set, and picking up open time or not is certainly not going to lose or save anyone's jobs. It is purely in your head that you are making a difference.

My head, and my conscience, tells me that it's wrong to undertake an action for my own personal gain, as in pick up open time, that harms my fellow man (pilot). Clearly, your head, and conscience, tells you otherwise. As respectfully as possible, I would suggest that we will have to disagree on this issue.

I understand the sentiment, and it certainly is not a good situation we have going here, but monkeying around with the system will only make things worse.

Don't misunderstand me: I'm not suggesting in any way that any person undertake any action that will harm the company. I would take an extremely dim view of someone intentionally undertaking an action that would harm our performance in the eyes of our customers, be they the people in the back, or, the folks in the Kremlin.

Besides, if you think anyone is REALLY going to show any solidarity and not pick up open time, you are smoking something. When it is all said and done, people are going to do what they have to do for their families. That has been shown time and again in this industry.

This is exactly what motivates me. In this industry, the most expendable component of the organization seems to be the flight crew. It's my belief that no entity can stand up for a pilot, when a pilot really needs it the most, like a fellow pilot. Again, it appears that we have a different opinion on this matter.

 

[CFI2766]

If such a list were to be compiled, I would be on it, and I know that you know who I am. I am excellent friends with a few in the list to be furloughed, and in no way do I feel like I am doing them a disservice. I would tell them all to their faces that I will continue to pick up open time. No shame at all in it. So what if a list is compiled. Hell, I'll sign a sheet on the wall for you.

The fact is that picking up open time is one of the key parts to the operation running smoothly, and that is the best way to get those 80 back. If our operation tanks because of uncovered trips, more heads will be on the chopping block when Delta removes even more of our schedule.

If you really feel that strongly about this issue, I would suggest that you should do exactly that. There are 80 people that are soon to be out of a job. Why not drop a personal message with your name in each of their mailboxes? With a month until unemployment hits, I would imagine that more than one of these affected pilots will be checking their mailboxes with the hope that the situation has changed and that they will still be employed in the near future; It's fairly certain that they would receive your declaration of priorities.

With regards to your assertion that the best way to return these folks to the line would be to pick up open time created by their absence, well, I would opine that not a single one of the 80 on the list would share your feelings on the matter.


Respectfully,


Glenn Wickline
ATR72/CRJ200 FO

 

[Abernathy]

If you really feel that strongly about this issue, I would suggest that you should do exactly that. There are 80 people that are soon to be out of a job. Why not drop a personal message with your name in each of their mailboxes? With a month until unemployment hits, I would imagine that more than one of these affected pilots will be checking their mailboxes with the hope that the situation has changed and that they will still be employed in the near future; It's fairly certain that they would receive your declaration of priorities.

With regards to your assertion that the best way to return these folks to the line would be to pick up open time created by their absence, well, I would opine that not a single one of the 80 on the list would share your feelings on the matter.


Respectfully,


Glenn Wickline
ATR72/CRJ200 FO

Is that what Ronald Reagan would do?

 

[CFI2766]

I nominate The Nuge for president of FI for the day.

Concur. And, I wish i as as cogent as he was.

 

[CFI2766]

Is that what Ronald Reagan would do?

Right now, he's pushing daisies.

But, during his time as the president of the Screen Actors Guild, yup, a union, he would most certainly have stuck up for his fellow man.

 

[Bako Cap]

Right now, he's pushing daisies.

But, during his time as the president of the Screen Actors Guild, yup, a union, he would most certainly have stuck up for his fellow man.

Elected five times to president and led the SAG on their first work action.

 

[Abernathy]

Elected five times to president and led the SAG on their first work action.

And when he became president, he really showed those air traffic controllers by firing all of them.