ASA furloughs 80 pilots

[CFI2766]

And when he became president, he really showed those air traffic controllers by firing all of them.

Not his brightest moment. A dumb idea, by all accounts. In fact, a dumb idea that we are still paying for to this day.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

If you really feel that strongly about this issue, I would suggest that you should do exactly that. There are 80 people that are soon to be out of a job. Why not drop a personal message with your name in each of their mailboxes? With a month until unemployment hits, I would imagine that more than one of these affected pilots will be checking their mailboxes with the hope that the situation has changed and that they will still be employed in the near future; It's fairly certain that they would receive your declaration of priorities.

With regards to your assertion that the best way to return these folks to the line would be to pick up open time created by their absence, well, I would opine that not a single one of the 80 on the list would share your feelings on the matter.


Respectfully,


Glenn Wickline
ATR72/CRJ200 FO

I wish I was still at ASA so I could fly with you and buy you a beer. God bless you, Sir, but I think you get it. Many people (most of them older and more senior to you) don't get it and never will. Every time I see, "If I don't pick up time, the company will suffer and more will be furloughed.", I read, "Yes, we furloughed. Why should that effect my monthly paycheck?? Sucks being junior, after all.."

I'll stop rambling, but we (the blue collar laborers of America.... for those of you who still don't get it) have stopped looking out for each other, and that is a shame. I'm not a militant labor guy, but the company can find a place for the 80 furloughed guys and girls in my opinion. Open time? Do you really need to take the family out to eat a seventh time this month? Extended? How FATIGUED are you after a five leg day??

Whatever. It's not my fight anymore. Seems like just a few years ago picking up open time when your buddies were on the street was a dirty secret that nobody talked about in public. Now it's a virtue that we flaunt under the guise of bringing our buddies back to work. How big is that flat screen in your living room anyhow, boys and girls??

Rant over. Sorry.

PS. Glenn...
...And let's not forget DC-9 pilots are flying gods compared to ATR pilots.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

How would ALPA know about furloughs or new aircraft before the company announced it?

There were several connection emails I remember talking about how we were 200-300 pilots overstaffed. It doesn't take much to connect the dots...

PBS will make you even more overstaffed.
Good luck!
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

BTW, if you do see a list, what will you do? vandalize their car/home/bag/mail box? punch them out? What?

This is where ALPA national could take the baton. Once a pilot picks up open time when a brother pilot is on furlough, that defines him. All of the other ALPA shops should be appraised of this behavior so they can make their own determination. Same as most of the kids on here, loud bark, but when they are called out, go full on pussie. I personally wouldn't like to be sitting next to some one who would pick up flying if I was on the street. This is about unity, nothing more nor less.
PBR
P.S. Scab list and undesirable newhire list should be posted and referred to regularly.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Concur. And, I wish i as as cogent as he was.

Musta been that rare moment during the day when his meds and the booze hadn't interacted properly. Please return him to his regularly scheduled ranting, please! And please tell him the avitar of him in front ot the Skywest sign wearing the cups rocks! Go Brad!
PBR

 

[thesource]

I may have missed it in a previous post but here goes anyway. While I agree in theory about not picking up open time while people are out, I have to remind all the ( put um on a list and hang um ) crowd that this has happened many times in the past. I mean the furlough part and open time discussion.

Please remember a couple of things.

The company has historical records of open time pick up numbers.

Several airlines have tried this and lost big in court, because of these records. (American lawsuit comes to mind).

Part of the litigation(sp) included web board discussions by people insighting the group to organize the campaign.

ALPA lost these suits and in the case of American the amount came to 10 million dollars.

ALPA will not endorse an effort to stop people from picking up open time.

I think that even though picking up time may be voluntary, a judge may see it differently when he reviews the historical record.

Just something to think about.

 

[johnpeace]

With regards to your assertion that the best way to return these folks to the line would be to pick up open time created by their absence, well, I would opine that not a single one of the 80 on the list would share your feelings on the matter.

I'm one of the 80.

That makes me fairly new at this whole airline labor game.

I hope that the other pilots at ASA will continue to work hard to improve our performance, save money wherever they can and stop bitching about DAL's new pass fees (and everything else they bitch about).

Keep morale there high and keep inciting everyone to do a good job.

The company doing well is the only way my job is coming back.

I personally don't feel 'stabbed in the back' by my fellow pilots picking up open time while I'm furloughed...for many of the same reasons that have already been presented here.

I want to see ASA run smoothly and efficiently while I'm out...the way I see it, open time being picked up is part of that smooth efficiency.

I was never very good at fitting in with the crowd and thinking the way everyone else thinks. Maybe I'm a 'free thinker' and maybe I just have my head up my ass.

Anyway...

I appreciate everyone's support. The idea that you folks would band together to help cover our family's lost health insurance is really humbling. That's going to be a HUGE loss for us.

I'm glad this is coming early in my airline pilot career so I can have the perspective that comes from it.

Good luck to everyone else!

 

[JustaNumber]

JohnPeace,
We could all learn from your positive attitude. When I think back on all the worst things that have happened in my life, I am glad I endured them all because of everything I've learned as a result. I sincerely wish you the best over the next few months.

As far as for picking up open time with guys on the street, I normally work as little as possible as it is, but I do find the controversy fascinating. Since both sides of the argument have merit, I decided to ask the smartest person I know, my wife, what she thinks is just. She actually had a very Solomonesque solution. She believes that as long as average line values don't exceed min guarantee, picking up open time is acceptable since whether you do or not won't affect recalls. However, if line values exceed 75 hours, you are doing work that another pilot could be doing, and so shouldn't pick up open time. Seems like a fair compromise to keep the company running smoothly, yet it keeps the company honest.

 

[Speedtape]

This is where ALPA national could take the baton. Once a pilot picks up open time when a brother pilot is on furlough, that defines him. All of the other ALPA shops should be appraised of this behavior so they can make their own determination. Same as most of the kids on here, loud bark, but when they are called out, go full on pussie. I personally wouldn't like to be sitting next to some one who would pick up flying if I was on the street. This is about unity, nothing more nor less.
PBR
P.S. Scab list and undesirable newhire list should be posted and referred to regularly.

You are wasting your breath, pal! People were picking up open time before any of these pilots were hired, they will be picking up open time after they are furloughed!

Open time will always exist, even if you are overstaffed--at least until people stop calling in sick because they are sick, calling in sick because they want the day off, calling in sick because they want to go to the Jimmy Buffet Concert, or calling in sick to watch the Football game of the week.

Trips have to be covered--because we are a business. Personally, I would rather people pick up opentime, than for the Company to extend or Jr. man me or any other pilot who wants to go home at the end of his trip!

QOL is actually created for all, by pilots picking up open time rather than the company exercising the other aforementioned options to cover a schedule! Many of us have been victims of those options in the past--which kept us from going to the concert, watching the football game, or being with our families on what was a scheduled off day! You see, alot of the opentime is created by Pilots and their behavior--resulting in someone else paying the price.

I don't pick up opentime--ever! But I certainly don't want to be JR. manned on my day off or extended at the end of my scheduled trip--ever! Open time will be covered! Personally, let someone pick it up that needs/wants the money or flight time--IT PRESERVES MY QOL! and other pilots too!

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

While you are drinking your Koolaid... Management should have used language such as. "Furloughs are highly likely" or "Furloughs should be expected in January". Instead of weak and nebulous suggestions that the economy is bad. I wonder how long ASA management knew this coming. If they found out last week, that is understandable, but I suspect this decision was made many weeks ago. For furloughed pilots, it's like a disease. The earlier they know the condition, the more time they have to prepare and recover from it. I could care less about your fat asses, sitting around all cozy while gainfully employed.

Sorry dude, but if you couldn't see the writing on the wall then you are a moron. If you are one of the 80, I hope you get back soon, but get a clue. I flew with plenty super junior FOs that saw this coming a month or more ago, why didn't you?

 

[acarpe3448]

I feel for these guys I really do but to be honest with you I have tons of my own bills to pay for my family. I have cut my 401K back quit the ESSP and struggling in other ways. $50 a month is a lot to me and maybe others. I like your thought but I have to take care of my family first.

Your a class act.

 

[Speedtape]

Your a class act.

Maybe, he, along with the rest of us, have also been financially affected by the economic conditions. Would you rather him be in Bankruptcy Court or being irresponsible to his family's financial stability?

In this economy--we need people working and being more productive to keep our Company strong! Otherwise, there will be more misery down the road for more people! As one of the furloughees so wisely said, he wanted his company to do what it had to do to survive and get stronger so that hopefully he had a Good job to come back to!

 

[buscap]

Your a class act.

It's you're

 

[JumpersAway]

Personally, I'm not an advocate of picking up open time, but it's an inevitability.

How about for the displaced captains- what if they pick up open time as an FO to meet the financial picture they painted when they were Captains? Some of the Captains on the ATR were in the left seat for nearly a full year before going back to being an FO. Is it wrong for them to make up the loss in pay through extra work?

As for a list of those that do, it's just not going to happen. Why would the company make that information accessible to the union in order to prevent pilots from doing the very thing they foster? Secondly, our companie's record keeping and payroll departments have sucked beyond belief for so long it's not even funny..........would you really trust them to get an accurate list, or even display the right information with the right names? How would you like to find yourself on that list knowing full well that you have never flown anything from the open time pot. Try telling people it wasn't you- yea, that's gonna be believable to your comrades that see your mistaken name on the list.

The solution is quite simple, the way I see it. The objective is to get our people back. Keep performance up, fuel burn down, and do what you can to be as cheap as possible, and the company will have a future that requires the skill of those that are on furlough. Open time may influence the staffing model, but it's going to be negligible at best........

If you want to take care of them- forget the open time issue and donate money or pay into the pot for their COBRA, etc.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

The best way is get everyone on the mainline seniority list.... course with all the lifers that have taken hold at the various regionals that prospect is less and less likely every day. Even though many of those would have loved the idea 10 years ago when they were young enough but still had the black marks keeping them from going the way they should have......

 

[acpilot]

I sent an email to BH and he really liked the idea. He indicated that he would talk with a few people about getting this going. Join with me to donate 50.00 per month.

I'm not ASA...or a regional pilot for that matter...but where do I send a check?

 

[ASA_Aviator]

If you really feel that strongly about this issue, I would suggest that you should do exactly that. There are 80 people that are soon to be out of a job. Why not drop a personal message with your name in each of their mailboxes? With a month until unemployment hits, I would imagine that more than one of these affected pilots will be checking their mailboxes with the hope that the situation has changed and that they will still be employed in the near future; It's fairly certain that they would receive your declaration of priorities.

With regards to your assertion that the best way to return these folks to the line would be to pick up open time created by their absence, well, I would opine that not a single one of the 80 on the list would share your feelings on the matter.


Respectfully,


Glenn Wickline
ATR72/CRJ200 FO

I hate that we are furloughing. I want that to be out there. I would gladly give $50 or $100 a month to be distributed to those furloughed.

What we should be focusing on is getting them back as quickly as possible, and to do that we must do our jobs efficiently, on time, and with good customer service. Costing the company money by paying me or you 1.5 the normal cost of the trip is not efficient. Believe me, if we start junior manning because people aren't picking up open time, any motivation that people had to support the cause will be gone the first time they miss a day off or an early duty-out.

The company isn't going to recall anyone just because people aren't picking up open time. Not picking it up will not save anyone's job, it will just make our operation more expensive, and make line pilots (and reserves too) suffer. Reserves will come in for a day line, and go home 6 days later.

If you think that not picking up open time will help, call or email Scott Hall, and ask him what he thinks. I'm sure we would all be interested to see what the management perspective is on the subject.

The fact is that you who are against it feel the way you do based on pure emotion. You just "feel" that it is wrong, and don't understand the ramifications. (No one will be recalled, and YOU will be junior assigned more frequently.)

I don't have a dog in the fight, you know that. I'm just trying to put some reason into the argument.

 

[Texx]

The best way is get everyone on the mainline seniority list.... course with all the lifers that have taken hold at the various regionals that prospect is less and less likely every day. Even though many of those would have loved the idea 10 years ago when they were young enough but still had the black marks keeping them from going the way they should have......

hahahahah. Black marks..

 

[CFI2766]

What we should be focusing on is getting them back as quickly as possible, and to do that we must do our jobs efficiently, on time, and with good customer service.

On this, I believe that we agree completely.

More than once I've already received mini-lectures from guys that don't understand, or, are simply too lazy to fly the CI speeds. To OMA, no less. I even came across one guy who swore that that CI was not yet activated. Dumb, Dumb, DUMB.

Slightly more rational, now, I'll freely admit: you might have better data on the cost differences between flying the existing pilots occasionally at extension pay versus bringing furloughed pilots back on line. I would love to see this data, accurately and honestly (not spun to serve any agenda), made public.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Glenn,

Do you fly your legs according to the CI? What do these Capt's say to you if they aren't following them, but you are trying to?