ASA FAs about to sell out on PBS

[PCL_128]

Well, 40 preferences is horrible. They must be deactivating a whole bunch of them. The software allows for several hundred. But Navtech is the best software, so that's at least some good news for you guys.

 

[neecy]

Yes it is a huge money and time saver for the company, I think it is going to be a hard sell because of the QOL issues. As far as vacation goes I know they are still working on the numbers. It is suppose to be built to reflect what the average flight attendant currently flies in vacation months

 

[lonestarpilot20]

Okay I don't post here very often, I prefer to stay on the sidelines and watch the mudslinging from afar. However, in the case of PBS my response is a resounding no. My feeling is that we will give up way to much power to the company and will get screwed in the end.

I am nearing the 50% mark on the 200 Capt. list and have been able to hold weekends or partial weekends off for a few months. I am convinced that what ever sysytem we get will wind up being no better than the former relief system we had. Sorry no dice. Been there done that. What I expect to happen over the next few months is the lines to be particlarly crappy with the company (read SH) stating that "if we only had PBS things would be better." Umm BS! As far as I am concerned SH can go f$*k himself and can only hope the rumor is true that he is on his way out.

On a side not that this really matters to us, but food for thought. Talking to a number of buddies over at SWA says that the company has been pushing for PBS, but the pilot group there won't even discuss it. Something about turning a week of vacation into 2 or more.

I've also had conversations with my FAs and convinced them that they should vote against PBS and encourage others to do so.

Just my .02

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Uh, guys- there is no requirement that we EVER agree to any PBS system. Why is everyone convinced it will happen?

Bueller?

 

[ifly4food]

Uh, guys- there is no requirement that we EVER agree to any PBS system. Why is everyone convinced it will happen?

Bueller?

There's no requirement? Three years from last November, we'll be back in Section 6 negotiations in a very weak economy. The company will have us over a barrel, especially if the FAs already have PBS. We'll end up taking concessions if we don't give it up.

 

[CFI2766]

There's no requirement? Three years from last November, we'll be back in Section 6 negotiations in a very weak economy. The company will have us over a barrel, especially if the FAs already have PBS. We'll end up taking concessions if we don't give it up.

Three years from now the economy will have recovered. As long as you consider 'recovered' as $5 a gallon of unleaded gas and a complete abandonment of company provided/assisted health care.

 

[lonestarpilot20]

There's no requirement? Three years from last November, we'll be back in Section 6 negotiations in a very weak economy. The company will have us over a barrel, especially if the FAs already have PBS. We'll end up taking concessions if we don't give it up.

That may not necessarily be the case. Certainly the economy is going to be weak for sometime, and I think biggest shake out is going to occur in the regional sector. I don't think we'll see mergers, it will be much easier to let weaker carriers die on the vine (think Mesa). Skywest with ASA should be in a good position, so I don't think they'll have us over a barrel. I do think that they will try every trick in the book to get us to bite on PBS. I think we need to let the company know that after we vote no on any changes to our CBA to allow PBS, that we will never talk about PBS again.

Again just my .02

 

[propjockey]

I hardly ever visit flightinfo anymore, and even less often write anything, but I feel passionate about this issue. Specifically for you guys at ASA -- I'm also a SkyWest pilot. I 100% agree with PBR and GR8. If ASA comes to you peddling the same piece of crap software that we got, homemade by a company called AOS, (apparently a bunch of Dixie College IT department flunkies who don't know the first thing about airlines),
RUN THE OTHER WAY!

By the way, AOS is the same company that wrote the software that puts together our crappy pairings!!

BAD pairings + WORSE PBS software = $%#@ sandwiches every day.

We probably would have been better off if they had outsourced writing our PBS software to India.

 

[ifly4food]

Three years from now the economy will have recovered. As long as you consider 'recovered' as $5 a gallon of unleaded gas and a complete abandonment of company provided/assisted health care.

Considering that the economy isn't even "officially" in recession yet, and past cycles indicate airline recessions lasting 5 years, I think we will still be in recession by then. But again, that's just from looking at past cycles.

 

[Snapperhead]

I hardly ever visit flightinfo anymore, and even less often write anything, but I feel passionate about this issue. Specifically for you guys at ASA -- I'm also a SkyWest pilot. I 100% agree with PBR and GR8. If ASA comes to you peddling the same piece of crap software that we got, homemade by a company called AOS, (apparently a bunch of Dixie College IT department flunkies who don't know the first thing about airlines),
RUN THE OTHER WAY!

By the way, AOS is the same company that wrote the software that puts together our crappy pairings!!

BAD pairings + WORSE PBS software = $%#@ sandwiches every day.

We probably would have been better off if they had outsourced writing our PBS software to India.

I agree with you about the bad pairings+worse software=bad times. We had a PB system at TWA and loved it though. It was a company called AdOpt. The union worked with the PB department to ensure the pairing were up to snuff on a month to month basis too. How do I know?, my wife was the manager of the Pref Bid Department.
You guys are dead on about the pairing being legit before launching the software. Also, the software must be legit/transparent/whatever you want to call it. I really don't believe ASA can handle this system properly.
If our union believes that PBS is coming in the not too distant future, they need to be talking with the AFA to ensure that the software company they choose is kosher. Also, things like picking up open time, dropping trips, etc...needs to be fully automated, and taken out of the hands of our scheduling department. End of rant.

 

[Texx]

That may not necessarily be the case. Certainly the economy is going to be weak for sometime, and I think biggest shake out is going to occur in the regional sector. I don't think we'll see mergers, it will be much easier to let weaker carriers die on the vine (think Mesa). Skywest with ASA should be in a good position, so I don't think they'll have us over a barrel. I do think that they will try every trick in the book to get us to bite on PBS. I think we need to let the company know that after we vote no on any changes to our CBA to allow PBS, that we will never talk about PBS again.

Again just my .02

Then you need to press your reps that "ANY" deal for PBS MUST BE voted on by the pilots. Not just the MEC.

 

[CFI2766]

Considering that the economy isn't even "officially" in recession yet, and past cycles indicate airline recessions lasting 5 years, I think we will still be in recession by then. But again, that's just from looking at past cycles.

3 years from now, either from a wall street or a main street version of the definition, I predict we will be well on our way to a recovery from a financial recession.

From an airline definition, I suspect that we will be in dire straights. Even though the economy is cooling off dramatically now, our hiring department is still hiring like crazy. This leads me to believe that when the economy is showing strong signs of life in the future, the airline industry, and my airline in particular, will have no new classes, and potentially be laying people off. A great environment to negotiate a new pilot contract, if you inhabit the GO.

I don't like the looks of this at all.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

3 years from now, either from a wall street or a main street version of the definition, I predict we will be well on our way to a recovery from a financial recession.

From an airline definition, I suspect that we will be in dire straights. Even though the economy is cooling off dramatically now, our hiring department is still hiring like crazy. This leads me to believe that when the economy is showing strong signs of life in the future, the airline industry, and my airline in particular, will have no new classes, and potentially be laying people off. A great environment to negotiate a new pilot contract, if you inhabit the GO.

I don't like the looks of this at all.

It could also be signs that there are plenty of people getting out of this business.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

3 years from now, either from a wall street or a main street version of the definition, I predict we will be well on our way to a recovery from a financial recession.

From an airline definition, I suspect that we will be in dire straights. Even though the economy is cooling off dramatically now, our hiring department is still hiring like crazy. This leads me to believe that when the economy is showing strong signs of life in the future, the airline industry, and my airline in particular, will have no new classes, and potentially be laying people off. A great environment to negotiate a new pilot contract, if you inhabit the GO.

I don't like the looks of this at all.

It seems most airlines have it out of sync, where they hire until they furlough, then find themselves woefully understaffed when things pick up. Unless you're new to this business, it shouldn't surprise you!

 

[CFI2766]

It seems most airlines have it out of sync, where they hire until they furlough, then find themselves woefully understaffed when things pick up. Unless you're new to this business, it shouldn't surprise you!

Who said I was suprised?

And, about your signature....What'd you expect ?!?

 

[wickedpilot]

Pros:

-allows you to be very specific (telling it I want to fly this pairing on this day, but something different next week)
-allow you to bid specific days off
-allows you to be general (I want 2 days that start after noon and finish by 2 PM, for example)

of course the efficacy of these things will be dictated by by your seniority, the variety of pairings available, and you ability to use the program correctly and effectively...

I can bid all of the preferences you listed right now with FLiCA on a hard line system. And, I can turn a 7-day vacation in 18.

 

[Redan]

I tried, but there's no way to quote the entire post, with both the original post and Joe's reply.

So, to recap, Joe was saying that the PBS system creating bad lines wasn't all that much different than the company creating bad lines. Frankly, he was right. I don't see where his 'credibility' was compromised.

I regret making the comment about Joe's credibility. However, I remain completely convinced there is a great deal of difference.

 

[DGdaPilot]

I can bid all of the preferences you listed right now with FLiCA on a hard line system. And, I can turn a 7-day vacation in 18.

We do hardlines at AE. I turned 4 days of VAC into 10 without pay loss.

 

[purduej]

Disclaimer: I bid top 20% in base.
One of the nice things about PBS is I can have a ten day vacation, weekends off, and 75 hrs of credit without tapping my vacation time. Once you learn the intricacies of bidding, it is very, very nice. I've done both hard lines and PBS and much prefer PBS. Yes you get screwed as the junior guy, but really, you're screwed as the junior guy no matter what system you used. At least with PBS the 8-ball will get a line, with hard lines they won't.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Disclaimer: I bid top 20% in base.
One of the nice things about PBS is I can have a ten day vacation, weekends off, and 75 hrs of credit without tapping my vacation time. Once you learn the intricacies of bidding, it is very, very nice. I've done both hard lines and PBS and much prefer PBS. Yes you get screwed as the junior guy, but really, you're screwed as the junior guy no matter what system you used. At least with PBS the 8-ball will get a line, with hard lines they won't.

It also depends on the system that you use, and you have to KNOW how to use it properly. You really have to know how to bid to use that, hardlines not so much. Our the ASA FAs going to fight for a good software program to use this? My bet is no.