ASA/expressjet & skywest

[Nevets]

I was a firm no vote on PBS, and still am wholly against it for the time being. we will see in a few days where I stand on this issue. However, I personally think its foolish for the XJT guys to blow up a deal because of PBS, and Skywest pilots. We can do more together than alone, and honestly, XJT was in a downhill slide before this came about. Don't let arrogance ruin a chance at what could be a very good company to work for.

Remember Midwest?

I would feel better about that if we had one list. Otherwise I and many others don't want to be a part of this whipsaw and the erosion of our current contract rules, qol, and total compensation.

Me personally, I rather go at it independent. But if we provide this much vaue to skw then we would provide it as well for someone else. I rather merge with Mesa as one pilot group then to keep bringing the profession down.

 

[JoeMerchant]

When we had our vote for concessions, the pilots had to ask themselves if they wanted to give the company a chance to survive or risk it without pay cuts. Now after concessions many feel like we've done our part and will no longer perpetuate the proverbial race to the bottom. Obviously we bring a lot of value to Inc or others I this falls thru again. We have the lowest casm in the regional industry and Inc says they will save $70M and have cash flows of $30M. There is reason why XJT pilots should give up anything more.

Why did you guys vote for paycuts?

 

[Nevets]

Pretty lame comeback or attempt at mocking my post. What I am is someone who understands how this game is played in 2010, and what types of contractual provisions are unsustainable at these types of companies! Management could agree to this type of thing, however that company will probably not be around long after their next contract expires. Like I said, do I want to be paid 75 hrs to fly 40 three times per year? OF COURSE I DO! That does not mean I think is is a viable economical way for my company to do business! I mean really, if I owned a company, I would never want to pay that kind of pay to employees.

Now, can we address the more important issues.......

I hope your line of thinking is the minority at Asa.

 

[79%N1]

Do a lot of us want to work 40 hrs and get paid 75? Most definitely. Probably lots more like me. Do I think a company can afford that and still get contracts. No. Sorry if you do. But you are wrong. But, just like you I want to work as little as I have to for he most pay I can get, with the most time off.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I hope your line of thinking is the minority at Asa.

I would say his line of thinking is similar to the majority at ASA. Why did XJT take concessions?

For years I and others pushed for single lists and brand scope....It fell on deaf ears. Now we have to deal with the reality of this failure.

Ironically, the "evil" SKYW and RAH are doing what ALPA couldn't....reducing competition. Sometimes it wise to choose the ally that can actually deliver on what you want......

 

[Nevets]

Why did you guys vote for paycuts?

It was a philosophical argument. Some people thought that we should and give the company a chance at remaining independent and others thought we should ride it out and take our chances as is. The MEC let the pilots decide with the caveout that this was a one time deal. Now I think that even the people that won the concession argument feel like the ones who didn't want concessions in the first place. Everybody has a line they draw and to me it seems XJT has drawn their line.

 

[Nevets]

I would say his line of thinking is similar to the majority at ASA. Why did XJT take concessions?

For years I and others pushed for single lists and brand scope....It fell on deaf ears. Now we have to deal with the reality of this failure.

Ironically, the "evil" SKYW and RAH are doing what ALPA couldn't....reducing competition. Sometimes it wise to choose the ally that can actually deliver on what you want......

Well then it's a good thing we outnumber you. I don't mind using skw anti labor antics as a tool to reduce competition but not at the further expense of the profession.

 

[JoeMerchant]

It was a philosophical argument. Some people thought that we should and give the company a chance at remaining independent and others thought we should ride it out and take our chances as is. The MEC let the pilots decide with the caveout that this was a one time deal. Now I think that even the people that won the concession argument feel like the ones who didn't want concessions in the first place. Everybody has a line they draw and to me it seems XJT has drawn their line.

So basically, you took concessions to try and "survive" the competition...How is that different? Didn't your pilot group essentially vote to do what they thought was best regardless of how it affected the "profession"?

 

[Nevets]

So basically, you took concessions to try and "survive" the competition...How is that different? Didn't your pilot group essentially vote to do what they thought was best regardless of how it affected the "profession"?

The MEC went along with it in part becuase even after concessions our pay and work rules would still be superior to everyone else. As a pilot group we didn't affect the profession negatively with our concessions.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well then it's a good thing we outnumber you.

If that's the belief of the majority of your pilots, then you aren't exactly starting off on a good foot with your new fellow pilots....Remember, we are buying you. We also seem to have more in common with the Skywest pilots in that case....Maybe you should push for the 3 way integration then....

I'm sorry you don't like your management. I'm sorry you don't like Skywest. I'm sorry you took concessions....Maybe you should leave those thoughts behind and come on over with an open mind.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The MEC went along with it in part becuase even after concessions our pay and work rules would still be superior to everyone else. As a pilot group we didn't affect the profession negatively with our concessions.

Then why even take them in the first place if it still made you the highest paid.....Sounds like more excuses to me...

I hope you are in the minority, because quite frankly I'm not interested in being "lectured" by you or any other XJT pilot about how bad our PBS is from a group that voted for pay cuts...

 

[Nevets]

If that's the belief of the majority of your pilots, then you aren't exactly starting off on a good foot with your new fellow pilots....Remember, we are buying you. We also seem to have more in common with the Skywest pilots in that case....Maybe you should push for the 3 way integration then....

I'm sorry you don't like your management. I'm sorry you don't like Skywest. I'm sorry you took concessions....Maybe you should leave those thoughts behind and come on over with an open mind.

Obviously we bring great value to Inc. Otherwise they wouldn't be buying us after two years on the first attempt and coming up with a scheme to circumnavigate our contract. JA told us two years ago we would be bk in 6 to 9 months and here we are still. If he truly beleived we are on the brink as many hear make it seem like we are, he would just let us go bk before trying to buy us with the risk of ending up as one list. My personal feeling is if he doesn't want to honor our contract, leave us alone.

 

[Nevets]

Then why even take them in the first place if it still made you the highest paid.....Sounds like more excuses to me...

I hope you are in the minority, because quite frankly I'm not interested in being "lectured" by you or any other XJT pilot about how bad our PBS is from a group that voted for pay cuts...

Management came to us and said we need x amount in concessions. We decided that if we agreed to do it that it would come out solely from pay rates. Spreadsheet showed that even with the amount of concessions management asked for, they would still be industry leading. We ended up getting three work rules out of it as well.

Look, we both took our concessions. We took ours as pay rate cuts. We could have taken part of them thru PBS like you guys did. I just feel that most of us have drawn the line there and dont want to take further concesions especially with these shinanigans JA seems admament on disrespecting u with. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[outtahere]

You make it sound as if you are the greatest pilot group in all of the land, an by God I'll hold up the profession on my back alone!! Well, good luck with that. I'm also of the opinion that we should make more money, with more days off, flying bigger planes. That sounds great, but here is the problem, we compete with other regional carriers for contracts from the majors, hence the need to be competetive, major airlines are competeing for pax, hence the fact they make more. I want more money, and we will get there as we decimate the competition, but first we have to get the majority of all the flying out there.

 

[outtahere]

Also, even though I'm not real thrilled about PBS, it's far from a concession for us. We got improved work rules, a pay raise, sorta, and the ability to verify the bid run solution. That's not a concession at all. If I had 10% more seniority, PBS might even be a good thing.