ASA Employees JS!

[BobbyBiplane]

Does anyone else see this as a security issue as well as a safety issue?

No...

 

[Airboss]

I was talking to Chuck (ramp supervisor) the other day..he is one of the people who get to ride up front. Personally, I think its a good idea for everyone to see what eachother does as long as it does not affect our operation (ie delay flight, sterile cockpit rule, enough O2 etc).
As stated above anyone can ride the jumpeseat with proper authorization. (heard of a ramper that wants to be a pilot that got one of those golden tickets (letters) and he will just jumpseat around our system for fun.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I'm not thrilled with the idea. We have enough going on already.

 

[601Pilot]

OK, I looked at the top 200 rate on the company proposal, did you? It is $89 at year 18, not $82 as you are implying. Did you look at the 700 comparision? Did you look at the FO comparison? Are you familiar with the term "cherry picking"? Did you notice that second year FOs are making more under our current contract than XJT, CHQ, and Eagle FOs?

You do realize the company rates are DOS + 24 months?!? No changes for 24 months! You have got to be kidding.

Screw the RLA and I'm ready to walk!

 

[JoeMerchant]

You do realize the company rates are DOS + 24 months?!? No changes for 24 months! You have got to be kidding.

You do realize that isn't what ALPA is saying. Here it is from ALPA's website:

http://asanegotiations.alpa.org/Comp_Pay_02-05-07.html

It clearly says DOS under the company proposal. Where are you getting your information, or misinformation, as the case may be......

 

[anon]

The first time one of them opens his/her mouth in a non-operational way during a critical phase of flight, a RIF goes to the company, a phone call to the FAA, a call to the FAA whistleblower hotline - and the entire program goes down in flames.

 

[Sinca3]

You do realize that isn't what ALPA is saying. Here it is from ALPA's website:

http://asanegotiations.alpa.org/Comp_Pay_02-05-07.html

It clearly says DOS under the company proposal. Where are you getting your information, or misinformation, as the case may be......

It also clearly says on the company site that I would only see and increase of 80 cents from one year to the next at year 7 rates. That´s a COLA adjustment of less than 1.25% a year. What was inflation rates over the last 4 years of negotiations and most likely the inflation rate for the duration of the contract?
The company rates are a Joke! What I see happening is a respectable 70 rate and a joke of a 50 rate. They then transfer all 70 and larger equipment to SKY and give us all the 50´s we can handle (tranfers from SKY). This is why I do agree that scope is of utmost importance, but not the ONLY thing that is needed here.

 

[JoeMerchant]

It also clearly says on the company site that I would only see and increase of 80 cents from one year to the next at year 7 rates. That´s a COLA adjustment of less than 1.25% a year. What was inflation rates over the last 4 years of negotiations and most likely the inflation rate for the duration of the contract?
The company rates are a Joke! What I see happening is a respectable 70 rate and a joke of a 50 rate. They then transfer all 70 and larger equipment to SKY and give us all the 50´s we can handle (tranfers from SKY). This is why I do agree that scope is of utmost importance, but not the ONLY thing that is needed here.

1. That's not what ALPA's information says. Again here it is:
http://asanegotiations.alpa.org/ASA Pay Comparison TEZ2.mht
Can you provide a link to your information?

2. Unfortunately, inflation isn't how ALPA negotiates payrates. ALPA uses pattern bargaining - sometimes the pattern is favorable, and sometimes it isn't. What would DAL, NWA, and UAL pay look like if you adjusted their 1980's rates for inflation? What would our 70 rates look like if they are adjusted for inflation?

 

[socony_air]

This is just one more example of a favor that I am no longer willing to do for ASA. It's not my job to train, enlighten, or baby sit another employee group at this airline.

A 121 cockpit is no place for a field trip - especially if something were to go wrong. I've seen the blood drain from the face of a seasoned mechanic, panicked at the reality of a single engine landing in an RJ. It was a distraction then & I learned from that.

I don't know how these persons will react & I'm not willing to take on the additional responibilty of taking down a shaky flyer to CAT II minimums....
Not For ASA - Not Anymore.

 

[crjskipper]

would you morons get out of the high-chairs. they are just riding, they will probably just sit there and look terrified. there's no safety risk as long as they are briefed right and follow the rules. how many faa or oal j/s riders have talked before during sterile times - did you write them up?

this is a great opportunity in my opinion for them to see what we do. many other airlines do this. some of you guys embarrass the hell out of me...

 

[Oakum_Boy]

this is a great opportunity in my opinion for them to see what we do. many other airlines do this.

It's one thing in a 767, another in the CRJ. It's already cramped, add to that the CG issues, and more garbage to brief- I think this is stupid. You can't assume they know anything, unlike mechs, feds, dispatchers or pilots. At least they have been there, done that.

Throw in the questionnaire they have to turn in. WHy don't we just pass out the answers at the gate.

 

[socony_air]

Not trying to embarrass anybody, nor do I intend to write anyone up. All I'm saying is that I'm not willing to do ASA any favors. It's not personal. Management doesn't value the job we do here now, so I'm electing to do my job, and my job only - which does not include joy rides.

Many other airlines do this? So what? Many other airlines also elect to foster a better relationship with their pilots, and between working groups. If I were at a different airline - I would likely have a different opinion.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Not trying to embarrass anybody, nor do I intend to write anyone up. All I'm saying is that I'm not willing to do ASA any favors. It's not personal. Management doesn't value the job we do here now, so I'm electing to do my job, and my job only - which does not include joy rides.

Many other airlines do this? So what? Many other airlines also elect to foster a better relationship with their pilots, and between working groups. If I were at a different airline - I would likely have a different opinion.

1. You implied that this is a safety issue in your previous post. Why would a different airline change this being a safety issue? If it is a safety issue, then it is a safety issue regardless of contract negotiations or regardless of how the company treats you. If this is a safety issue at Mesa, then this is a safety issue at Southwest.

2. How many regionals "elect to foster a better relationship"? CMR? MESA? Mesaba? PNCL? Eagle? PSA?

3. This isn't supposed to be a "favor" for ASA. It's supposed to help us as pilots. It would be helpful to have other employees see things from our point of view and see how things are in the cockpit.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yeah... welcome aboard.

 

[Matty4me]

Authority??

relax mansworld - scott is the do and can auhorize anyone to ride the j/s. every letter he writes goes to the faa. every employee at asa has passed a background check and fbi check.

delta and asa own the j/s, not us. cass is an option avaiable when the seat is not being used. riddle interns have been riding the j/s for years. i think it/s a good idea.

Has someone forgotten the golden law of being a CAPT?? Final Authority! That overrides who "owns" the jumpseat. They, delta and asa have given you the authority to either fill the seat or defer or RIF. A RIF can easily explain why you are uncomfortable with someone that has no idea of the operation occupying the j/s. If this is a problem that is broken by their viewpoint, then they need to take feedback from the FRONTLINE EMPLOYEES, Flightcrews, and trust our judgement, not just haphazardly writing policy of putting their desk ridden butox in the j/s!!!

 

[Sinca3]

1. That's not what ALPA's information says. Again here it is:
http://asanegotiations.alpa.org/ASA Pay Comparison TEZ2.mht
Can you provide a link to your information?

2. Unfortunately, inflation isn't how ALPA negotiates payrates. ALPA uses pattern bargaining - sometimes the pattern is favorable, and sometimes it isn't. What would DAL, NWA, and UAL pay look like if you adjusted their 1980's rates for inflation? What would our 70 rates look like if they are adjusted for inflation?

Sure....here´s the link you initially gave:
http://asanegotiations.alpa.org/Comp_Pay_02-05-07.html
It plainly shows at yr 7 from DOS to DOS+12 a cola raise of roughly 1.20%
As for your second point?

 

[socony_air]

Breiling, I'm not suprised I have to spell this out for you.

Is this the biggest threat to aviation safety today? Of course not. It is simply one very small link in the error chain that can be removed before leaving the ground.

Until the contract is signed & conditions at ASA improve, I will continue to ask myself:

Is this my job? Does it make this flight safer? Why do I care?

The answers because you are slow:

No, No, & I care less and less by the day.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Breiling, I'm not suprised I have to spell this out for you.

Is this the biggest threat to aviation safety today? Of course not. It is simply one very small link in the error chain that can be removed before leaving the ground.

Until the contract is signed & conditions at ASA improve, I will continue to ask myself:

Is this my job? Does it make this flight safer? Why do I care?

The answers because you are slow:

No, No, & I care less and less by the day.

So it will be safer after the contract is signed? Safety issues shouldn't mix with bargaining issues. Similar to the dual qualification issue and the age 60 issue. Using safety as a collective bargaining issue dilutes real safety issue.

Personally, the more people that can see it from our perspective, the better.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Sure....here´s the link you initially gave:
http://asanegotiations.alpa.org/Comp_Pay_02-05-07.html
It plainly shows at yr 7 from DOS to DOS+12 a cola raise of roughly 1.20%
As for your second point?

Sorry, I thought you were implying that it was only a 1.2% increase over current book.

In your example, your pay would go from 67.14 to 70.04 year over year which would be a 4.32% increase.

 

[ASARJMan]

3. This isn't supposed to be a "favor" for ASA.

Man you are drinking that coolaid by the gallons Joey! Well, at least you returned to the subject at hand, JS, finally.

I Say STRIKE ASA!

 

[ASARJMan]

Sorry, I thought you were implying that it was only a 1.2% increase over current book.

In your example, your pay would go from 67.14 to 70.04 year over year which would be a 4.32% increase.

Agggghhhhhhhhhhh, spoke too soon! This thread is about the jumpseat Joey, jumpseat. You hijacked it again! Here, have some more Company Koolaid.

STRIKE ASA!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Man you are drinking that coolaid by the gallons Joey! Well, at least you returned to the subject at hand, JS, finally.

I Say STRIKE ASA!

Call it Koolaid if you wish RJMan, but I have always thought it would be good for everyone from Jerry on down to see things from a line pilot cockpit view. I'm a firm believer in seeing things from other's perspectives.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Agggghhhhhhhhhhh, spoke too soon! This thread is about the jumpseat Joey, jumpseat. You hijacked it again! Here, have some more Company Koolaid.

STRIKE ASA!

RJMan, the reason we got onto pay is because YOU brought it up at the beginning of this thread. Here is YOUR quote:

"I'm not in too much of a cooperative mood right now being the company wants to pay me 8-10 dollars less than my peers."

You are the one that attached payrates to whether or not this is a good idea. If you don't like the idea - FINE. If you think it is dangerous - FINE. But don't use safety as reason when you are just pissed at your payrate.

 

[ASARJMan]

Is it me, or is Joey posting on here all the time? Guess he's over the trouncing. Better watch out GL, Joey will be catching up to you soon!

STRIKE ASA!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Is it me, or is Joey posting on here all the time? Guess he's over the trouncing. Better watch out GL, Joey will be catching up to you soon!

STRIKE ASA!

Your catching up to me - only 123 to go.

You get the last word, I'm outahere for the weekend - off to Florida for a Buffett concert. You have the controls.....

 

[crjskipper]

matty - are you a captain? you have final authority but if you ever keep someone off the j/s you better have a good reason, true safety not politics - or you wont have the authority for much longer.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Call it Koolaid if you wish RJMan, but I have always thought it would be good for everyone from Jerry on down to see things from a line pilot cockpit view. I'm a firm believer in seeing things from other's perspectives.

JA has been in my jumpseat numerous times...don't really think the "line pilot cockpit view" did us much good so far!!

 

[Matty4me]

No

matty - are you a captain? you have final authority but if you ever keep someone off the j/s you better have a good reason, true safety not politics - or you wont have the authority for much longer.

seeing too much from the other seat. calling like it is.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I can't be bothered with playing 20 questions in flight with a redcoat.

I suspect the hidden goal of this program is to get more eyes in the cockpit and ensure our pilots don't do a work stoppage. You can't screw around when a member of management is on your jumpseat.

I WILL be excercizing my PIC authority and denying them access to the jumpseat unless specifically ordered to take them by my supervisor. When that happens, it will be sterile cockpit from takeoff to touchdown, again, PIC authority.

 

[John Pennekamp]

OK, I looked at the top 200 rate on the company proposal, did you? It is $89 at year 18, not $82 as you are implying. Did you look at the 700 comparision? Did you look at the FO comparison? Are you familiar with the term "cherry picking"? Did you notice that second year FOs are making more under our current contract than XJT, CHQ, and Eagle FOs?

"Joey" are YOU familiar with the term "cherrypicking"? You know, ignoring the arguments you can't win and only responding to the posts you like?

I have news for you... YOUR F'ING COALITION LOST THE ELECTION BY A LANDSLIDE BECAUSE NOBODY AGREES WITH YOUR ASININE IDEAS ABOUT OUR CONTRACT!!!!

So go enjoy your beach house in Cocoa and your Buffett concert, and keep your ideas about how we should take the company's lousy offer to yourself. We already held a referendum on you and your ideas about the contract and YOU CLEARLY LOST. You are not going to come on here and convince anybody who didn't already vote for you.

You are a loser. You have no respect from anyone at this company except for your handful of followers who gave you the 200 or so votes you got. Quit acting like you're some wise voice among us who can lead us to the light.