Asa Emb170?

[ATR-DRIVR]

I would not belive ANYTHING Fred bro #1 said. IF he did say that it would have been to placate the Comair pilot group and get them to actually think they would get them. Can you say WHIPSAW?? I can. I probably left there and went right over to the DL crew lounge and told them they were looking at the E-190/195's for mainline. As it stand right now, with the PWA, mainline would get them. IMHO, they **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well should! If there is going to be any chance at furthering our careers, mainline is going to have to get bigger or those top 1500 guys leave. There are some that are happy either at ASA or CMR for the duration. Great! Those of us who would like to look a bit further down the road sure would like to see light at the end of it.

 

[91100 100 set]

maybe?

... they just like airplanes and wanted to get a look at one up close?

 

[asacap]

maybe DAL will set up an alter-ego company with 190/195's and have mainline fuloughs fly them. I would assume connection pay scales and connection people doing all the other work. I would also assume that connection pilots will be able to go over to the alter-ego company after all furloughs are recalled. This is probably close as we'll get to one list.

 

[letthebigdogeat]

Yeah, I agree. That's pretty reasonable.

 

[jetflyer]

ASAcap,

That's a great idea. Let's hope they're thinking about this option. Sounds good for all parties involved.

Jetflyer

 

[On Your Six]

I have flown on the MDA E170 as a pax and it was a great flight. Comfortable seats, huge windows, enough bin space, two lavatories (front and back) and a "big aircraft" feel to it. Plus, the flight deck looked very spacious and, of course, very automated - wall-to-wall glass with some interesting new features - I think it uses a Primus Epic system. Great flight and very impressive aircraft. Too bad pilots will be paid $30/hr to fly them...

 

[601Pilot]

E-170s

Maybe since Embraer is suspending deliveries to US Airways, Delta can pick them up for a cheap price.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/09/15/brazil.embraer.reut/index.html

 

[surplus1]

maybe DAL will set up an alter-ego company with 190/195's and have mainline fuloughs fly them. I would assume connection pay scales and connection people doing all the other work. I would also assume that connection pilots will be able to go over to the alter-ego company after all furloughs are recalled. This is probably close as we'll get to one list.

Does that mean that you would like a flow-through to the mainline but, failing that, you would be happy to settle for a flow-through to a new subsidiary?

 

[wms]

Fred Butrell said on September 8 in the Comair pilot crew lounge that Delta wanted the Embraer 170/190/195 pretty badly.

He said the product was preferred over the Canadair Jets by management and by customers. He said they were an excellent product and something Delta wanted to have for the future to compete with Jet Blue's future small jets.

He also said they would HAVE TO BE operated by DELTA CONNECTION or else they WOULD NOT be profitable. He said it was the only way they would see a ramp in the portfolio.

Maybe Delta pilots could operate them, but PILOT PAY, MX personnel to work on them, FAs, rampers, catering, and all costs would have to rival a REGIONAL AIRLINE'S. Is this possible? If so then Delta pilots would probably be flying the bad boys.

FRED BUTRELL didn't think it could happen though in the meeting with Comair pilots and FAs.

Good luck to DELTA!!!
Jet

Lots of kool aid. I don't know who they're attractive to with less than 50% reliability according to the guys I've talked to who fly them.

Even with all of the furloughs coming back, DAL doesn't have enough pilots, much less to staff another airline. The worry about bringing the furloughs back and where to put them is being to put to rest. DAL is going to need them at ML.

 

[General Lee]

Sorry, but Dean Bloom---the System Chief pilot I believe under Kolshack--said yesterday at a JFK lounge meeting that he would QUIT if ASA or Comair got any 100 seaters. He said he couldn't see them ever getting any. He is Kolshack's right hand man. Kolshack is the DCI CZAR. I don't know about the Emb170.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Freebrd]

OMG! We don't want Dean to quit now do we! I'm sure that threat will carry weight with GG and Company! C'mon, you can do better than that!

Relax General, ASA was just looking at the plane as it was more than likely on a sales tour and just dropped in to see if Skip would be interested in buying!

 

[General Lee]

Freebrd,


I bet Skip would have to go to Kolshack first and ask whether or not he could buy anything. That being said, Dean was probably right. He said only Delta, not DCI, has been present in any talk about 100 seaters, and then he said Delta pilots would be flying them, PERIOD. But hey, maybe Skip wanted to tool around in the EMB-170, I hear it is a nice ride.

As far as who gets what aircraft, I think we have some other important issues to finish prior to anything like that.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Swaayze]

It cracks me up that when someone mentions "Jets4Jobs" the DCI pilots have a fit, but when one proposes exactly the same thing without calling it that he immediately gets a few "that's a good idea"s.

 

[surplus1]

It cracks me up that when someone mentions "Jets4Jobs" the DCI pilots have a fit, but when one proposes exactly the same thing without calling it that he immediately gets a few "that's a good idea"s.

The key word in your statement is "a few". We all have a percentage of our people who just don't "get it".

Also, you might want to note that there is no such thing as "DCI pilots". DCI is a management tool whose main purpose is to play the whipsaw game for Delta. It doesn't hire pilots and it employs no pilots.

DCI (the corporate entity) is not a "friend" to the pilots of any subsidiary or subcontractor carrying pax for Delta Air Lines. A plethora of different companies doing the same job does rquire coordination but its benefit to the parent corporation is highly questionable. The so-called "portfolio" has one principal purpose and that is anti-labor activity, which its founder has "sold" to the DAL BOD as the way to manipulate employees, pit them against each other, and thereby lower costs of labor, while increasing the cost and inefficiency of everything else.

It (DCI) has been successful in creating animosity between the different pilot groups and dividing them against each other because WE the pilots haven't been smart enough to counter the serpent with a little anti-venom of our own. Instead of fighting the "portfolio" with a solid coalition that protects our compensation packages and benefits, we the pilot groups have allowed ourselves to be suckered into fighting among ourselves over scraps and feeling "proud" because we're the "low bidder" in the pack.

I have to congratulate the creator of the portfolio concept. He obviously anticipated our lack of unity and foresight, and has used it effectively against each of us, one at a time. The "formula" of divide and conquer is working, and it's our fault.

Multiple alter egos have always worked to the advantage of corporate management, because WE let it happen that way. Scabs break a strike. Alter egos break a union.

 

[N2264J]

Sorry, but Dean Bloom---the System Chief pilot I believe under Kolshack--said yesterday at a JFK lounge meeting that he would QUIT if ASA or Comair got any 100 seaters. He said he couldn't see them ever getting any.

Isn't that what ATR-DRIVR just said?

IF he did say that it would have been to placate the Comair pilot group and get them to actually think they would get them. Can you say WHIPSAW? ...probably left there and went right over to the DL crew lounge and told them they were looking at the E-190/195's for mainline.

Surplus and ATR nailed it and I lay the responsibility for this disaster directly at the feet of ALPA and the Delta MEC.

Our forefathers in ALPA correctly envisioned this scenario and wrote down the remedy in the By-laws as Merger and Alter ego policy. That policy was rendered toothless in 1998 by ALPA. Subsequently, it was determined that Comair and ASA weren't "operationally integrated" with mainline to the delight of many a Delta line pilot. ALPA thereby became complicite with management in the portfollio concept at Delta. Our own union has put us in a position where new aircraft will be bid on by everybody. Lowballers get the bid. Everyone loses. Some union.