ASA-Contract Negotiations

[goodto50meters]

Looks to me like progress is finally being made. Also looks to me like some of you WANT to strike. Some of you need to look around and see what is happening in the industry. The Delta pilots just agreed to fly the E190 for $95 per hour at the top end!

AVoR,

No one wants to strike unless they really are a retard. But most of us will do it if it must be so. This crap has to stop somewhere.

I have looked around and I dont like what I see. Therefore, I choose to draw a line in the sand here. If this outfit cant compete and profit reasonably with a fair contract, then it probably is going to fail anyway.

I will not be a party to the further destruction of our profession.

Helllo.....hellooooo.....tap...tap....tap....Bryan.....Bryan....Jerry? Do you understand this.....helllooooooo

 

[Blucher]

Amen!!

AVoR,

No one wants to strike unless they really are a retard. But most of us will do it if it must be so. This crap has to stop somewhere.

I have looked around and I dont like what I see. Therefore, I choose to draw a line in the sand here. If this outfit cant compete and profit reasonably with a fair contract, then it probably is going to fail anyway.

I will not be a party to the further destruction of our profession.

Helllo.....hellooooo.....tap...tap....tap....Bryan.....Bryan....Jerry? Do you understand this.....helllooooooo

Amen to that, Brother!! Amen to that!!

-Blucher:bomb:

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

AVoR,

No one wants to strike unless they really are a retard. But most of us will do it if it must be so. This crap has to stop somewhere.

I have looked around and I dont like what I see. Therefore, I choose to draw a line in the sand here. If this outfit cant compete and profit reasonably with a fair contract, then it probably is going to fail anyway.

I will not be a party to the further destruction of our profession.

This is a new world. The mainline carriers are putting the work out for bid. Even the mainline pilots are participating in the bidding. Now the DAL pilots are flying the EMB 190 for less than we fly the 70.

What is the "line in the sand". I ask the union folks what we are asking for and what we will strike for. I get answers like "we aren't asking for much" and just "QOL improvements". Then the company gets close on the commuter clause and long call reserve, and people talk like nothing is getting done.

Which is it?

 

["GO AROUND"]

A little is getting done. Is that the answer you wanted? It is still sub par to the agreement that SKW has in many area's.

Any of the SKW guy's on here read it yet? Do SKW pilots get 50% or 100% DH pay? How does it compare. I know the pay rates are similar but what else?

It's still sub standard in some areas. So it would be a NO for me.

 

[Texx]

This is a new world. The mainline carriers are putting the work out for bid. Even the mainline pilots are participating in the bidding. Now the DAL pilots are flying the EMB 190 for less than we fly the 70.

What is the "line in the sand". I ask the union folks what we are asking for and what we will strike for. I get answers like "we aren't asking for much" and just "QOL improvements". Then the company gets close on the commuter clause and long call reserve, and people talk like nothing is getting done.

Which is it?

Well it's like this.

Take DAL "proposed rate for the E190", I still have doubts that this is even in play, and run it out to 18 years at approx. 3% a year. What do you come up with. So when you look at a 12 year rate keep in mind that ASA "wanted an 18 year rate on the 700, not ALPA".

You asked someone what we will strike for. You will have the chance to review what is on the table before you vote.

 

[goodto50meters]

This is a new world. The mainline carriers are putting the work out for bid. Even the mainline pilots are participating in the bidding. Now the DAL pilots are flying the EMB 190 for less than we fly the 70.

What is the "line in the sand". I ask the union folks what we are asking for and what we will strike for. I get answers like "we aren't asking for much" and just "QOL improvements". Then the company gets close on the commuter clause and long call reserve, and people talk like nothing is getting done.

Which is it?

I think people are talking like 'not enough' is getting done, not 'nothing'.

Someone said the 'devil is in the details', take a closer look at the unmatched paragraphs. Many are of a nature that ties the rest of the entire section together . Gee i wonder why these are not agreed upon yet????? Could it be that management negotiators are trying to render the sections worthless. Take the commute clause part for example. One small sentence renders the whole page a pile of crap. This is a Billable Heirs special according to the CNC.

Some progress is being made in all fairness.

The line in the sand: SkyWest comparable/NO 700 CUT/COLA/RETRO PAY

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I think people are talking like 'not enough' is getting done, not 'nothing'.

Someone said the 'devil is in the details', take a closer look at the unmatched paragraphs. Many are of a nature that ties the rest of the entire section together . Gee i wonder why these are not agreed upon yet????? Could it be that management negotiators are trying to render the sections worthless. Take the commute clause part for example. One small sentence renders the whole page a pile of crap. This is a Billable Heirs special according to the CNC.

Some progress is being made in all fairness.

The line in the sand: SkyWest comparable/NO 700 CUT/COLA/RETRO PAY

Gotta say I like how ya think...GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[rumrnr78]

AVOICE- I doubt you will get it. You are probably a senior farker with a head topped of grey hair and full of bad wiring from the George and John days. The old crusty ASA captain with the 4 food groups on his tie and no resolve in his soul. Willing to sell out the junior for another year of seniority!

Can't you at least demand work rules on par with Airtran? They don't have premium but since they treat their employees well they don't need it!

I have Airtran roomies on reserve with 12 days off and it is livable with a last day release if no assignment. Why can't we? They work naps 3 on 3 off, et cetera.

I will not give in to your concessionary, take in the arse, attitude. I pray that the others will join me and reject what is total B.S from management!

The very tone of your post speaks volumes and you better pray that folks such as me do hold the line so that you (and other senior cowards) reap the benefits of a decent contract.

 

[MXAV8R]

NO PAY CUT ON 70/COLA/100% RETRO/HORIZON OR BETTER 50 PAY - OR I WALK!!!

Bring it on BL!!!

 

[HoserASA]

This is a new world. The mainline carriers are putting the work out for bid. Even the mainline pilots are participating in the bidding. Now the DAL pilots are flying the EMB 190 for less than we fly the 70.

What is the "line in the sand". I ask the union folks what we are asking for and what we will strike for. I get answers like "we aren't asking for much" and just "QOL improvements". Then the company gets close on the commuter clause and long call reserve, and people talk like nothing is getting done.

Which is it?

CLOSE! Sorry Scott, but close ain't gonna hunt. Quit bringing up the Delta 190 rate too. You have to factor in their benefit costs as well, plus Delta hasn't even ordered the damn thing, if they can even get 'em!

The company knows what they have to do to get this done. We'll see shortly what the mediator proposes. If it favors management, then expect the worse. And if the absolute worse happens (ASA go out of business) you management types will be out of work too. Doubt that Skywest will move you over to SLC.

Hoser

 

[CFIT]

A little is getting done. Is that the answer you wanted? It is still sub par to the agreement that SKW has in many area's.

Any of the SKW guy's on here read it yet? Do SKW pilots get 50% or 100% DH pay? How does it compare. I know the pay rates are similar but what else?

It's still sub standard in some areas. So it would be a NO for me.

We get 100% for DH.
Hope you guys are strong, Jerry plays hard.

BTW, huge article in todays SLC Tribune about SkyWest and the aquisition of ASA.

 

[CFIT]

One other thing to aware of, if the negotiations include a PBS for bidding, strike for sure, if the system is AOS.

 

[schoolio]

BTW, huge article in todays SLC Tribune about SkyWest and the aquisition of ASA.

Article here - http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_3569863

 

[Tim47SIP]

He's right!

CLOSE! Sorry Scott, but close ain't gonna hunt. Quit bringing up the Delta 190 rate too. You have to factor in their benefit costs as well, plus Delta hasn't even ordered the dang thing, if they can even get 'em!


True statement. The pilot pay is a drop in the bucket when it comes to total compensation and infrastructure costs. Total crew pay at ASA versus Delta is not a make or break issue. Your only talking a few dollars ASA might be paid more than the Delta crew with their new 190 rates. It is the total cost that has to be included to support that aircraft. The Delta crew and aircraft in the big picture cost way more than the ASA crew and aircraft when it is all said and done.

 

[SSDD]

I have to admit that some things about Skywest management's behavior baffles me. It seems like Jerry Atkin could settle this thing like pronto. But the one thing I seriously doubt is that you're going to get more $$$ to fly a 70 seater than DL pilots will get to fly 100. Sadly, I think the nail has been driven in that coffin.

Up until now, Jetblue or US Air's rates have not had much effect, but when your own major partner will under bid you, you're done.

There's a sad reality here that must be acknowledged.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

One other thing to aware of, if the negotiations include a PBS for bidding, strike for sure, if the system is AOS.

Ditto on the above statement for me!! Days off are way down since we got it, but at least so are the line pay values......

 

[Sinca3]

But the one thing I seriously doubt is that you're going to get more $$$ to fly a 70 seater than DL pilots will get to fly 100. Sadly, I think the nail has been driven in that coffin.

Up until now, Jetblue or US Air's rates have not had much effect, but when your own major partner will under bid you, you're done.

There's a sad reality here that must be acknowledged.

I don't think we are competing against Delta yet! I think our mgnt wants us to believe this but we aren't close to the cost of mainline in total operating cost. Like some keep saying, hourly pay rate isn't the only thing that affects cost! I think we can still fly a smaller airplane for more per hour and still be competetive.

 

["GO AROUND"]

PBS was talked about but I believe it was put on the back burner to be completed after the contract as a side letter.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I think the company wants to just put it out there and see what the response will be in the hope of the majority buying off on it. Then, with that ammo, they can stop negotiating (like they've done for years now) and get an arbitrator (when that happens) to force a pilot vote on it.

While it may be lacking in some respects, it definately contradicts your assertion that "they can stop negotiating (like they've done for years now)". BOTH sides have drug their feet since this began. However it is clear that much progress has been made the last 6 months since SKYW purchased us.

Here's what I would do about this. Just tell any management (incl CPs) that the company's proposal is unacceptable and that the negotiation team has your backing. When Scott Hall is in the lounge and trys to engage you, just tell him that the negotiation team does the negotiating, and then just walk away. Better yet, when you see him walk in, just walk away without saying a word!

Your free to do that Mark if you don't like hearing both sides of an issue and making up your own mind. I prefer to hear BOTH sides. I prefer to question BOTH sides. Then I prefer to make up my own mind rather than allow someone else to make up my mind for me.

Scott is far superior to any person we have had in this type of position before. He is actually flying the line and sees first hand some of the problems. He, along with Charlie and Jerry, ARE changing things for the better. It isn't fair to hold him or Jerry responsible for the mistakes made by their predecessors.

I guess you and others are having a difficult time with the paradigm shift.

 

[socony_air]

The paradigm I'd most like to see shift is for 'ol JB to shut his trap. But, I digress. ASA --- NO Chance with an offer like that. Why bother even putting that out? Keep it up --- you're only making things worse.

 

[Bizjet]

The paradigm I'd most like to see shift is for 'ol JB to shut his trap. But, I digress. ASA --- NO Chance with an offer like that. Why bother even putting that out? Keep it up --- you're only making things worse.

Maybe when the ATR's are sold, Joe Merchant will go with the aircraft. Or maybe he will follow Scott Hall when he get canned. No such luck. He will probably be a chief pilot for all his sucking up to the MAN!

 

[HoserASA]

Scott is far superior to any person we have had in this type of position before. He is actually flying the line and sees first hand some of the problems. He, along with Charlie and Jerry, ARE changing things for the better. It isn't fair to hold him or Jerry responsible for the mistakes made by their predecessors.quote]

Far superior? Geez, give me a break John! Never would have thought you'd become cozy with management. What are they promising you John?

One example of Scott being superior is his statement backing up one CP who told a pilot "can't you just wash your drawers at the hotel"! Anyway, obviously you like what you're hearing from him, so good for you.

Who do we hold responsible John? When you purchased something you then own it entirely, including past practices. One can change/improve 'mistakes' made in the past, or let them continue. Look at the crap the FAs put up with! I haven't seen a lot of changes yet.

BTW, you running for LEC Capt Rep, and is Lynn gonna run for MEC like Scott wants? Still waiting on that answer.....

Hoser

 

["GO AROUND"]

Scott joined Brian, Charlie and everyone elses attitude in mngmnt of wanting to forget the past and move on into the future. But, anyone with an ounce of brains and common sense knows that if you don't acknowledge and learn from the past you are bound to repeat it.

Mngmnt just doesn't want to admit that they ever do anything wrong. This was clear in the MEC's meeting with Jerry and Brian. It is also apparent that our mngmnt blames the pilots for everything that goes wrong between us and managment. Look at this stupid memo they just put out with this proposal. "It's all the Associations fault that the pilots don't have a contract." Whatever!

John, how do you figure that both sides have drug their feet in negotiations. The Association made a play that things would improve with the industry and neither side pushed too hard in the beginning. But, managment is the only side who had anything to gain after the industry got worse.

Read yesterdays SLC trib. article and see how long DAL had been trying to sell us to SKW. I guarantee DAL told Skippy to stall and keep things staus quo until the sale was final. Hmmm, about the same amount of time that we have been negotiating?