ASA Contract Negotiations Stalled

[WWEfan]

I know negotiations have been slow to say the least, but this new turn of events is ridiculous. For you ASA guys reading this go check out the latest "negotiations update" on the ALPA website. It is maddening.

Negotiations have come to an abrupt halt for an indefinite period of time. No further sessions are scheduled until management can get its house in order....and the mediator approved it. Well, I didn't approve it. So much for all the fuel saving initiatives I participated in. No more favors. Now I'm not screaming, "BURN THE PLACE DOWN!" Don't do anything illegal or anything that could jeopardize your employment. Just no more favors from this pilot.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I read that on the ALPA boards too. I had such high hopes for the Skywest Management, and then this happens. uke:

 

[Papa Woody]

Fellas, Fellas, Fellas.

Don't fret.

We, collectively, have more power than we think. We're just too fractionated to do anything effective to fix it.

That's why we're in the quandary we're in.

Unfortunately, management has an overpowering upper-hand, and it's not likely to get better anytime soon.

They will not negotiate until they must.

Why do they have to negotiate now? I can't see any reason. Business gets done, and we made $30 million profit last quarter.

In the G.O., they're high-fiving each other and salivating over their upcoming bonus checks and stock options.

And we won't get one thin dime of that money until we are in a position of power, which gets further away each day.

In life, you don't get what's fair. You get what you negotiate. And negotiations only begin when each party has potential to lose.

Management, right now, has nothing to lose from not negotiating, and that's why this has happened.

No mysteries. Just plain business.

 

[AV8700]

Wow, sorry I'll have to check back in a few days and read all of the post. I think I'm getting the FLU.

 

[Papa Woody]

Wow, sorry I'll have to check back in a few days and read all of the post. I think I'm getting the FLU.

Dude, you got it!

 

[Rogue5]

Don't forget: SkyWest management has never had to negotiate a contract before, or work with ALPA before.

I'm sure there is a lot of on the job training going on on their side that might be slowing things down...

 

[Papa Woody]

Don't forget: SkyWest management has never had to negotiate a contract before, or work with ALPA before.

I'm sure there is a lot of on the job training going on on their side that might be slowing things down...

Whatthefuga you smoking?

"never had to negotiate a contract" ?

Business is all about negotiating and contracts. The reason Skywest is so successful is because they conduct business, ie: negotiating and contracts, very well.

It doesn't matter the name of the opposite party, whether it be called Delta Airlines, or Salt Lake Airport Authority, or Bombardier, or......ALPA.

They know how to negotiate, when to negotiate, and how to NOT negotiate.

 

[79%N1]

Makes you wonder what else is going on here....obviously something big for all the secrecy, shutting down of neg's without a new timetable, etc...Why the letters of confidentiality? Something BIG has got to be up! Of course, who know when we'll get the answers. The company has even hinted that everything else they have agreed to in the first 3 years of neg may be out the window in the light of this new development! WTFO!!

 

[sweptback]

Makes you wonder what else is going on here....obviously something big for all the secrecy, shutting down of neg's without a new timetable, etc...Why the letters of confidentiality? Something BIG has got to be up! Of course, who know when we'll get the answers. The company has even hinted that everything else they have agreed to in the first 3 years of neg may be out the window in the light of this new development! WTFO!!

Of course the new development is retroactive pay concessions. See, instead of back pay check, we're going to get a nice direct deposit audit to make up for the years that we were making more than Mesa and CHQ.

 

[bvt1151]

Whatthefuga you smoking?

"never had to negotiate a contract" ?

Business is all about negotiating and contracts. The reason Skywest is so successful is because they conduct business, ie: negotiating and contracts, very well.

It doesn't matter the name of the opposite party, whether it be called Delta Airlines, or Salt Lake Airport Authority, or Bombardier, or......ALPA.

They know how to negotiate, when to negotiate, and how to NOT negotiate.

There is a HUGE difference between negotiating with other companies and negotiating with organized labor groups. The dynamics are so different, company to company negotiations can hardly be called practice for labor negotiations. Skywest is inexperienced in this area. Can the ASA pilots capitalize? Its gonna take a whole lot more unity and guts than they've shown thus far.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Of course the new development is retroactive pay concessions. See, instead of back pay check, we're going to get a nice direct deposit audit to make up for the years that we were making more than Mesa and CHQ.

OK, now that's not funny. :smash:

 

[Papa Woody]

LOL!

Retroactive pay concessions!

Just when you think it cannot get any worse.....10K disappears from your checking account and BL drives up in a new Mercedes!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Do I have to pay it back within 3 days or can I take my sweet ass time as well?

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Do I have to pay it back within 3 days or can I take my sweet ass time as well?

That's too funny...

 

[Papa Woody]

Do I have to pay it back within 3 days or can I take my sweet ass time as well?

Within 3 days.....and compounded interest as well!

 

[ifly4food]

Guys, this is the final straw.

Skywest just demonstrated that they have zero interest in improving the conditions at this company. First they spend big money sending us a KoolAid CD, then roadshows telling us we need to "be competetive" (aka get ready for pay cuts), then they reneg on everything they've already agreed to in negotiations. What an insult!

It's time we get ready to shut this place down. We need to tell our reps that we want a strike vote. It's time to stop doing the company favors, and stop saving them money.

They're laughing at us in the ATL GO and St George. What are we going to do about it?

 

["GO AROUND"]

I love the fact that they don't know who is going to do the cost analysis or how to do it!!!! What a bunch a schmucks! There really is nothing in the sections TA'd that has to be analyzed cause there is little monitary substance in those sections. Can you say STALL! Unbelievable!!!

I just do everything by the SP's no more no less and the place falls on it's face by itself.

Why do you think they took the calling of the times out of our hands? Cause SKW is paid on performance. What better way to increase that than let the rampers lie about the out time so they look good and not have to explain the late code. Sooner or later the on and in times will be by ACARS too.

 

[ifly4food]

I love the fact that they don't know who is going to do the cost analysis or how to do it!!!! What a bunch a schmucks! There really is nothing in the sections TA'd that has to be analyzed cause there is little monitary substance in those sections. Can you say STALL! Unbelievable!!!

Yeah, they basically admitted that they've been BS-ing us for the last three years. They haven't even done a cost analysis? YGBFSM!!!!!

 

[kikejavy]

I agree with "GO AROUND" go by the SP's. Dont call for fuel let the DC come to you dont go to them. And after you have taken off and are far away from ATL or SLC call Delta Radio and ask your dispatcher what times they put in and under what code and make them change it to the correct time you have on you. If we do this pretty soon everyone will be running 20+ minutes late.

 

[indianboy7]

LOL!

Retroactive pay concessions!

Just when you think it cannot get any worse.....10K disappears from your checking account and BL drives up in a new Mercedes!

Ya, I'd love to see them snag 10k out of a regional pilot's bank account.........I'll just sit on the sidelines with a 12 pack while they try to take 10k and scratch their heads wondering why they're only getting 20 bucks.........

I love FO pay....

 

[Rogue5]

Whatthefuga you smoking?

"never had to negotiate a contract" ?

Business is all about negotiating and contracts. The reason Skywest is so successful is because they conduct business, ie: negotiating and contracts, very well.

It doesn't matter the name of the opposite party, whether it be called Delta Airlines, or Salt Lake Airport Authority, or Bombardier, or......ALPA.

They know how to negotiate, when to negotiate, and how to NOT negotiate.

Noted.

What I meant to say was "never had to negotiate an ALPA contract."

But your understanding and civility are greatly appreciated...

 

[Bluto]

First they spend big money sending us a KoolAid CD, then roadshows telling us we need to "be competetive" (aka get ready for pay cuts), then they reneg on everything they've already agreed to in negotiations.

Now, I can understand that you guys are frustrated, and rightfully so, but honestly, SkyWest management hasn't agreed to anything with you guys yet, so it's impossible for them to reneg on anything. I doubt if they've even become involved in the negotiating process at all yet, aside from the "competetive" propoganda.

I sincerely hope you guys negotiate big improvements in your contract, but I think it's unproductive to blame SkyWest management wholly for the latest stall tactic. There are still ASA managers running things over there from what I understand. Good luck moving things forward. Hopefully, whatever your methods, you can bring mgmt back to the table soon.

 

[Bluto]

Why do you think they took the calling of the times out of our hands? Cause SKW is paid on performance. What better way to increase that than let the rampers lie about the out time so they look good and not have to explain the late code. Sooner or later the on and in times will be by ACARS too.

Um...SkyWest pilots call our own times, except when we have acars. If what you say here is true, then why wouldn't they have made this change for us in places like ORD where delays run rampant? I wish you guys the best, but whining about SkyWest mgmt screwing you over when they aren't doesn't help your case.

You should save that energy for when they do, in fact, start trying to screw you over.

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

When they start to screw you, you'll know it, but if it seems like they aren't yet screwing you, it's because they're already screwing you!

 

[Sinca3]

Skywest Inc. gives ASA managment a number and then tell them to meet that number. Skywest Inc. has absolutly nothing to do with ASA negotiations or for that matter day to day operations!
ASA managment is exploiting our "new ownership" to stall negotiations even more.
PEOPLE get your heads out of your asses and start getting each other FIRED UP!! It's time to get some motivated pissed off pilots out there making some noise for ASA and Skywest Inc. to hear. We have to be UNIFIED and then our negotiators can get $hit done!
So get in the lounges and talk, talk to each other talk to the chief pilots. Lets get each other motivated to get this thing finished. Everything.....EVERYTHING from managment is going to be doom and gloom from this point on. ASA is not going to just fall from the sky. We have to take advantage of the Delta mega hub called ATL. It is their golden goose and ASA/Skywest Inc. can't afford a disruption there!
Get Motivated

 

["GO AROUND"]

Not a Skywest pilot, Just owned by Skywest Inc.

Um...SkyWest pilots call our own times, except when we have acars. If what you say here is true, then why wouldn't they have made this change for us in places like ORD where delays run rampant? I wish you guys the best, but whining about SkyWest mgmt screwing you over when they aren't doesn't help your case.

You should save that energy for when they do, in fact, start trying to screw you over.

I'm not a Skywest pilot...Neither are the other 1700 ASA pilots... We still do things our way and you yours. For now. I never said anything about Skywest mngmt screwing us, we still have the same ol ASA mngmt doing that.

 

[AchilleLauro]

No more favors. Now I'm not screaming, "BURN THE PLACE DOWN!" Don't do anything illegal or anything that could jeopardize your employment. Just no more favors from this pilot.

I'm not advocating this, I don't practice this, purely for your informaion only. Coming back to Atlanta, about 525 NM out. I started calculating costs/fuel burn during different phases of flight, plan vs. a little faster than plan.

At 350, +8 ISA...
Burn........Mach.......TAS
1920.......0.826.......486
1760.......0.816.......480
1705.......0.812.......478
1670.......0.800.......470

Over the distance (525NM) at the various speeds and using a conservative $1.70/gallon for Jet fuel, the additional cost of flying at .826 versus .80 was $118 for 1 hour 9 minutes versus 1 hour 11 minutes at .80.
Net time saved...2 minutes 20 seconds.

Then while coming into Atlanta I looked at the fuel numbers for Flaps 0 and flaps 8 @ 200 KIAS.

Burn goes from 1200 a side to 1700 a side. Again, using $1.70 per gallon, the additional cost PER MILE, PER ENGINE is $2.20. So, for every MILE that the flaps come out, it costs an additional $4.50 in burn.

I am not advocating the use of ridiuclous burn or early flaps as a tool against the company, but surely some bean counter has to factor the willingness of employees to help save the company money. In one flight alone I could have cost the company an additional $143 in fuel. (Mach 0.82 and 5 miles early on the flaps 8 call). The difference of a 2% pay raise, in the cockpit, per hour is roughly $2.70 ($1 for the FO and $1.7 for CPT).

Imagine 130 airplanes (whatever the actual number is) 4 or 5 times a day. I can't see how holding out can help the company. If they offered a measly 2% raise and some scheduling enhancements, they could ask for and get folks to start thinking about strict fuel savings to help the company.

This is just the pilot side. FAs have their methods of inefficiences, as do the gate agents. They're aware of how they can effect the company and believe me, some of them aren't so efficient.

The point of all this is that employee MORAL CAN EFFECT THE BOTTOM LINE. The bean counters need to pull their collective heads out of their stink holes and factor this in. This company could make millions more a year if 'management' would use the employees as partners, not adversaries, in making the company more profitable.

 

[SSDD]

Awesome!!!! Keep thinking that way and you'll talk yourselves right out of a job. Remember you're not longer owned by Delta. ASA/Skywest/Skywest Inc., can be fired for non performance even with their 15 year contract. You can be replaced by onyone who's willing to do it cheaper.

There's nothing wrong with negotiating and going by the SP's, but when you start sabotaging your operation, you're only screwing yourselves.

Good luck.

 

[HoserASA]

...........those c*&#suckers! NO FAVORS! By the book baby!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Deleted.

When negotiations begin again, we need to insist that we are negotiating with Managers who have actual negotiating authority. Based on what I've just read, it appears that Management simply has not prepared for negotiations.

If I do not prepare for a check ride, I fail, then and there. Not being prepared is not an excuse.

It has been t h r e e l o n g years. We need to get the clock going towards the time we are released for self help.

Isn't the mediator more than a little aggravated by this? Wish he was getting paid by the job and not by the hour....

~~~^~~~