ASA Contract Negotiations Stalled

[Rogue5]

Whatthefuga you smoking?

"never had to negotiate a contract" ?

Business is all about negotiating and contracts. The reason Skywest is so successful is because they conduct business, ie: negotiating and contracts, very well.

It doesn't matter the name of the opposite party, whether it be called Delta Airlines, or Salt Lake Airport Authority, or Bombardier, or......ALPA.

They know how to negotiate, when to negotiate, and how to NOT negotiate.

Noted.

What I meant to say was "never had to negotiate an ALPA contract."

But your understanding and civility are greatly appreciated...

 

[Bluto]

First they spend big money sending us a KoolAid CD, then roadshows telling us we need to "be competetive" (aka get ready for pay cuts), then they reneg on everything they've already agreed to in negotiations.

Now, I can understand that you guys are frustrated, and rightfully so, but honestly, SkyWest management hasn't agreed to anything with you guys yet, so it's impossible for them to reneg on anything. I doubt if they've even become involved in the negotiating process at all yet, aside from the "competetive" propoganda.

I sincerely hope you guys negotiate big improvements in your contract, but I think it's unproductive to blame SkyWest management wholly for the latest stall tactic. There are still ASA managers running things over there from what I understand. Good luck moving things forward. Hopefully, whatever your methods, you can bring mgmt back to the table soon.

 

[Bluto]

Why do you think they took the calling of the times out of our hands? Cause SKW is paid on performance. What better way to increase that than let the rampers lie about the out time so they look good and not have to explain the late code. Sooner or later the on and in times will be by ACARS too.

Um...SkyWest pilots call our own times, except when we have acars. If what you say here is true, then why wouldn't they have made this change for us in places like ORD where delays run rampant? I wish you guys the best, but whining about SkyWest mgmt screwing you over when they aren't doesn't help your case.

You should save that energy for when they do, in fact, start trying to screw you over.

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

When they start to screw you, you'll know it, but if it seems like they aren't yet screwing you, it's because they're already screwing you!

 

[Sinca3]

Skywest Inc. gives ASA managment a number and then tell them to meet that number. Skywest Inc. has absolutly nothing to do with ASA negotiations or for that matter day to day operations!
ASA managment is exploiting our "new ownership" to stall negotiations even more.
PEOPLE get your heads out of your asses and start getting each other FIRED UP!! It's time to get some motivated pissed off pilots out there making some noise for ASA and Skywest Inc. to hear. We have to be UNIFIED and then our negotiators can get $hit done!
So get in the lounges and talk, talk to each other talk to the chief pilots. Lets get each other motivated to get this thing finished. Everything.....EVERYTHING from managment is going to be doom and gloom from this point on. ASA is not going to just fall from the sky. We have to take advantage of the Delta mega hub called ATL. It is their golden goose and ASA/Skywest Inc. can't afford a disruption there!
Get Motivated

 

["GO AROUND"]

Not a Skywest pilot, Just owned by Skywest Inc.

Um...SkyWest pilots call our own times, except when we have acars. If what you say here is true, then why wouldn't they have made this change for us in places like ORD where delays run rampant? I wish you guys the best, but whining about SkyWest mgmt screwing you over when they aren't doesn't help your case.

You should save that energy for when they do, in fact, start trying to screw you over.

I'm not a Skywest pilot...Neither are the other 1700 ASA pilots... We still do things our way and you yours. For now. I never said anything about Skywest mngmt screwing us, we still have the same ol ASA mngmt doing that.

 

[AchilleLauro]

No more favors. Now I'm not screaming, "BURN THE PLACE DOWN!" Don't do anything illegal or anything that could jeopardize your employment. Just no more favors from this pilot.

I'm not advocating this, I don't practice this, purely for your informaion only. Coming back to Atlanta, about 525 NM out. I started calculating costs/fuel burn during different phases of flight, plan vs. a little faster than plan.

At 350, +8 ISA...
Burn........Mach.......TAS
1920.......0.826.......486
1760.......0.816.......480
1705.......0.812.......478
1670.......0.800.......470

Over the distance (525NM) at the various speeds and using a conservative $1.70/gallon for Jet fuel, the additional cost of flying at .826 versus .80 was $118 for 1 hour 9 minutes versus 1 hour 11 minutes at .80.
Net time saved...2 minutes 20 seconds.

Then while coming into Atlanta I looked at the fuel numbers for Flaps 0 and flaps 8 @ 200 KIAS.

Burn goes from 1200 a side to 1700 a side. Again, using $1.70 per gallon, the additional cost PER MILE, PER ENGINE is $2.20. So, for every MILE that the flaps come out, it costs an additional $4.50 in burn.

I am not advocating the use of ridiuclous burn or early flaps as a tool against the company, but surely some bean counter has to factor the willingness of employees to help save the company money. In one flight alone I could have cost the company an additional $143 in fuel. (Mach 0.82 and 5 miles early on the flaps 8 call). The difference of a 2% pay raise, in the cockpit, per hour is roughly $2.70 ($1 for the FO and $1.7 for CPT).

Imagine 130 airplanes (whatever the actual number is) 4 or 5 times a day. I can't see how holding out can help the company. If they offered a measly 2% raise and some scheduling enhancements, they could ask for and get folks to start thinking about strict fuel savings to help the company.

This is just the pilot side. FAs have their methods of inefficiences, as do the gate agents. They're aware of how they can effect the company and believe me, some of them aren't so efficient.

The point of all this is that employee MORAL CAN EFFECT THE BOTTOM LINE. The bean counters need to pull their collective heads out of their stink holes and factor this in. This company could make millions more a year if 'management' would use the employees as partners, not adversaries, in making the company more profitable.

 

[SSDD]

Awesome!!!! Keep thinking that way and you'll talk yourselves right out of a job. Remember you're not longer owned by Delta. ASA/Skywest/Skywest Inc., can be fired for non performance even with their 15 year contract. You can be replaced by onyone who's willing to do it cheaper.

There's nothing wrong with negotiating and going by the SP's, but when you start sabotaging your operation, you're only screwing yourselves.

Good luck.

 

[HoserASA]

...........those c*&#suckers! NO FAVORS! By the book baby!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Deleted.

When negotiations begin again, we need to insist that we are negotiating with Managers who have actual negotiating authority. Based on what I've just read, it appears that Management simply has not prepared for negotiations.

If I do not prepare for a check ride, I fail, then and there. Not being prepared is not an excuse.

It has been t h r e e l o n g years. We need to get the clock going towards the time we are released for self help.

Isn't the mediator more than a little aggravated by this? Wish he was getting paid by the job and not by the hour....

~~~^~~~

 

[601Pilot]

Awesome!!!! Keep thinking that way and you'll talk yourselves right out of a job. Remember you're not longer owned by Delta. ASA/Skywest/Skywest Inc., can be fired for non performance even with their 15 year contract. You can be replaced by onyone who's willing to do it cheaper.

There's nothing wrong with negotiating and going by the SP's, but when you start sabotaging your operation, you're only screwing yourselves.

Good luck.

Yeah right! This is the kind of thinking that has put us in the position we are in now. If you don't work here, then why don't you just STFU!

 

[soardtk]

Now, I can understand that you guys are frustrated, and rightfully so, but honestly, SkyWest management hasn't agreed to anything with you guys yet, so it's impossible for them to reneg on anything. I doubt if they've even become involved in the negotiating process at all yet, aside from the "competetive" propoganda.

I have nothing in this negotiation but this statement really stood out while I was lurking.

When SkyWest bought ASA, they bought the pilots CBA as well. They knew that negotiations have been on going for three years and they were jumping into a hornets nest. This may be SkyWests first venture into RLA Section 6 negotiations but don't think they haven't done their homework prior to the purchase. If they are saying that they need more time to do a cost analysis, then everyone at ASA needs to cry BS!! SkyWest is a publicly held company and if they didn't do a cost analysis of the pilots CBA and what has been brought to the table by both sides prior to the purchase then they did the shareholders a terrible disservice. SkyWest and ASA's pilots should unify together on this since both groups will be directly effected by the outcome. If not, let the whip sawing begin.

 

[SSDD]

601,

That's really eloquent!

Where am I wrong? This all started back in the mid to late 80's, and probably neither you or I have had much saying on "how we got here." But you can't ignore the reality of todays environment. Mainline guys are willing to fly 100 seaters for less than you make in your 70 seater. Look at what's happening at Comair, either they make some drastic concessions, or they will be slowly dismantled.

Its your problem, and you can deal with it any way you want to.

If you don't want outsiders commenting on your internal problems then keep them off the public forums.

BTW that STFU stuff only works behind the anonimity of a bullenting board.

Take care

 

[theo]

Skywest Inc. gives ASA managment a number and then tell them to meet that number. Skywest Inc. has absolutly nothing to do with ASA negotiations or for that matter day to day operations!
ASA managment is exploiting our "new ownership" to stall negotiations even more.
PEOPLE get your heads out of your asses and start getting each other FIRED UP!! It's time to get some motivated pissed off pilots out there making some noise for ASA and Skywest Inc. to hear. We have to be UNIFIED and then our negotiators can get $hit done!
So get in the lounges and talk, talk to each other talk to the chief pilots. Lets get each other motivated to get this thing finished. Everything.....EVERYTHING from managment is going to be doom and gloom from this point on. ASA is not going to just fall from the sky. We have to take advantage of the Delta mega hub called ATL. It is their golden goose and ASA/Skywest Inc. can't afford a disruption there!
Get Motivated

Golden Goose? Have you read the papers? Delta is bankrupt!

 

[shamrock]

Golden Goose? Have you read the papers? Delta is bankrupt!

The ATL hub is crucial to Delta, even in bankruptcy.

 

[Phony Marconi]

Golden Goose? Have you read the papers? Delta is bankrupt!

Comon, man! Don't fall for that crap!

"Bankruptcy" is the oldest shell game in the book. Atlanta is their golden goose.....tons of cash are flowing through the daily operation there. It has, and will continue to, enrichen a select few individuals.

Obviously, the word "bankrupt" has tricked you into expecting less....just like it was designed to do.

 

[Bluto]

SkyWest and ASA's pilots should unify together on this since both groups will be directly effected by the outcome. If not, let the whip sawing begin.

I agree 100%.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

HMMMM,
Seems like the SKYW pilots rejected the paltry 1.2%, now no one will talk to us either,the script is being acted out. Watch out for the second act of Chicken Little- The Sky is Crashing. The ministers of propaganda are spooling up, so prepare for the doom and gloom act, part 2.
Good Luck guys, you are gonna need it!
PBR

 

[WWEfan]

We already got the "doom and gloom" act from management in the form of a DVD. 5 minutes of JA and BL telling us how we need to stay competitve and how all the other regionals are going to undercut us. I cry BS. We havent seen a raise in 3 years and never had expensive work rules. How can you be more competitve than that?

All we want are industry STANDARD work rules. Some things that would actually improve our company's deficiencies.

Also, how could they know how competitive we are when they haven't even done a cost analysis on us? Again I cry BS.

 

[atrdriver]

I'd be willing to bet that they won't factor in all the pilots who won't be SE taxiing, or doing flex takeoffs anymore. Or those who will be running the APU whenever possible. They are going to throw more money away on these things then they will save by stalling a few more years on a fair contract.