ASA Connection.....(Or should I say "Concession?")

[sweptback]

Yep you should get about 19 or so more. I am guessing on another 2 for 1.

From whom?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I am betting on most of those on order going to you.

 

[79%N1]

How about a 2 for lick my nads!

ASA had better not accept another one of these deals. Another one of these will lead to major furloughs and downgrades. We already will need to eliminate nearly 100 more FO positions (at 5 per pland times 20 planes) if we find no flying for the 20 when they are due to leave next summer.

Add in another 10 900's at a loss of 20 more 200's......we would need to shed 200 FO's and downgrade 100+ Captains! No thanks!

 

[1080P]

Your MEC chair, Dave is one of the best guys you have there. He made a choice to stay there to make it a better place. He was and is not stuck, it is a choice!
He knows the DCI contract that ASA signed, and knows the numbers. ALPA national is looking at the data too.
Here is link to the contract. (trade secret areas have been blanked out)
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/793733/000110465905043902/a05-16042_1ex1d2.htm

Okay I don't vol my time for our union but I totally disagree with you on him and the others.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

50's are going away either way. I know that there was a graduated layering of the contract. Just not sure when it started. Either way I am sure the initial agreement has been amended.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Okay I don't vol my time for our union but I totally disagree with you on him and the others.

Fair enough. I think he is a good guy. I do not know how he chair's the mec.

 

[rf285]

He didn't. He actually failed the NWA interview when he started spouting off about how morally wrong he thought Compass was during the "Do you have any questions for us?" portion.

He's bitter. He's an ex rep. He's a Midwesterner. You know who he is... just think about it.

Not known as the most levelheaded of people even on his best days.

Click.

 

[79%N1]

50's are going away either way. I know that there was a graduated layering of the contract. Just not sure when it started. Either way I am sure the initial agreement has been amended.

Let them take some from Pinnacle, Chatauqua and Freedom and anyone else.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They may, time will tell. It is a way to dump 50's which is the desire as of late.

 

[twott driver]

Last time I counted, losing 20 aircraft and getting 10 back was a net loss of 10. Rather large difference, but a loss none the less.

How about a 2 for lick my nads!

ASA had better not accept another one of these deals. Another one of these will lead to major furloughs and downgrades. We already will need to eliminate nearly 100 more FO positions (at 5 per pland times 20 planes) if we find no flying for the 20 when they are due to leave next summer.

Add in another 10 900's at a loss of 20 more 200's......we would need to shed 200 FO's and downgrade 100+ Captains! No thanks!

 

[Abernathy]

You have to get costs there one way or another. If you are so smart you would have read the contract that DAL and ASA agreed to three years ago.

If you do not get the costs in to the bottom two, DAL has the right to impose those costs on you, you can accept that, or they take your flying.
Read some of the posts on it. It sucks but that is what your former management and SKW's Jerry Atkin agreed to when they bought ASA.

Are you actually suggesting regional pilots to take concessions? Do you remember what we make?

If I ever take concessions from the sh** pay I already make, I will leave this "job." I didn't go into flying for the money, but I also didn't take it to make a penny less than what I make now. Fact is us FO's will be here on the right seat a long time with age 65 and no one else moving on. Less than $30-35K as highly trained professional to fly transport aircraft? There are a million other ways to cut costs than impose concessions on the pilot group.

You can go f*** yourself.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I am not saying the pilots need to do anything. I am saying ASA will need to do it. I do not think the pilots should have to give up anything.
It needs to come from the inefficiencies of the operation, ie the GO.
But I will go f myself, thanks!

 

[crj567]

Are you actually suggesting regional pilots to take concessions? Do you remember what we make?

If I ever take concessions from the sh** pay I already make, I will leave this "job." I didn't go into flying for the money, but I also didn't take it to make a penny less than what I make now. Fact is us FO's will be here on the right seat a long time with age 65 and no one else moving on. Less than $30-35K as highly trained professional to fly transport aircraft? There are a million other ways to cut costs than impose concessions on the pilot group.

You can go f*** yourself.

-Pretty much my sentiments. ACL65 loves to bash us, then come back and write nice things about what a great bunch we are.

-ACL needs to understand the "good cop/bad cop" routine works far better when there are two separate cops involved. If you do it all yourself-ACL, you just look like a tool.

-It has been a long time since ACL flew an "50 seater" or "barbie-jet," or whatever clever euphemism is in vogue over at the red triangle club at the moment. This guy has been assimilated, and really hates us just as much as the General. The only problem with ACL is he tries to play nice every once in a while to attempt to keep up his "street-cred."

-As far as many of these ass-clowns are concerned-we ARE the enemy, and THEY should be flying 757s to DHN.

-I'll bet, truth be told, ACL probably refers to us as employed by the lowly "commuter" he used to fly for, when he is jaw-jacking with all his new red triangle pals.

-ACL doesn't fool me for a second.

P.S.-Skywest already flushed most of the riff-raff out of the G.O. (they flushed three times, just for good measure.) They actually do a far better job of running things than any of the previous guys (DALupper mgmt.) did, so there ain't a lot to cut other than our pay-and that will be next-oughta save enough to buy lots of shiny new red triangles for all the really important pilots....

 

[Abernathy]

My guess is if they were to force concessions, the place would get torn down. Not worth the cost.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

How about a 2 for lick my nads!

ASA had better not accept another one of these deals. Another one of these will lead to major furloughs and downgrades. We already will need to eliminate nearly 100 more FO positions (at 5 per pland times 20 planes) if we find no flying for the 20 when they are due to leave next summer.

Add in another 10 900's at a loss of 20 more 200's......we would need to shed 200 FO's and downgrade 100+ Captains! No thanks!

They are going away in any case. Might as well get some 900s in exchange.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

My guess is if they were to force concessions, the place would get torn down. Not worth the cost.

Instead of "burning the place down," just leave. That way you don't have to work at the crappy company that pissed in your cornflakes, and the rest of us get to keep our jobs.

 

[crj567]

Instead of "burning the place down," just leave. That way you don't have to work at the crappy company that pissed in your cornflakes, and the rest of us get to keep our jobs.

Here is a serious question- Where do you draw the line?

-Does everyone have to go to Mesa wages and QOL, maybe back to Trans States wages from 15 yrs. ago? The Capt. who was in the ATR crash at Roselawn was actively interviewing at Wal-Mart to be a manager trainee, so he could make much MORE money than Eagle was paying...

Sure, there will always be someone who wants to fly a plane for $15k per year, and so forth, but would you buy a ticket on that plane? Do you really want to go back to that world? Do our passengers?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

CRJ567.
You just spew venom.
You assume everything. You do not know jack. Spouting off about me and what I think is just plain juvenile. I tell you what I think. Why gives a crud about street cred, really?
I have many friends over at EV. Great people. This is a fricken job, that is it. There is life outside of it. Just do what is best for your family. For me it was taking a seniority hit, coming to mainline and making a go of it over here. It may not be that way for you, fine.
The worse thing about working for DCI was the fact that it was contract work. Contracts end. That in effect is the reason I made the move, so just quit your party line about me. I can tell you you have got the mainline mentality all wrong.
Most guys over here do not even understand the DCI mainline deal. They just come to work, and go home.

As for having to reduce costs. The problem is the other DCI operators that have costs so low, no one can effectively compete with them. That is the problem. Compass has costs 30% below anyone else, and that will never change due to the flow. That is an achilleies heel in your DCI contract. Mesa will be gone in a few years which is great for everyone.

 

[spudskier]

P.S.-Skywest already flushed most of the riff-raff out of the G.O. (they flushed three times, just for good measure.) They actually do a far better job of running things than any of the previous guys (DALupper mgmt.) did, so there ain't a lot to cut other than our pay-and that will be next-oughta save enough to buy lots of shiny new red triangles for all the really important pilots....

They need to flush one more time, there's still a floater or two...

 

[crjskipper]

i talked to several alpa guys who said no concessions were even discussed. where do you get all the doom and gloom from? things are tough now, i imagine that our q1 results arent good. isnt it a good thing that they are meeting. i dont see concessions even being asked for, more likely they will try other options well before pay to save dough. thank god we pilots are so well educated on perfect managment techniques. just shut up and fly.

 

[JumpersAway]

I'm very suprised that Skywest Inc. didn't lock in some sort of mechanism that would have prevented the likes of Compass and Mesaba from posing a threat. Actaully, as it is written, DAL could form as many of it's own DCI carriers as it wanted too just for the express purpose of voiding ASA's agreement with DAL. Plain and simple deal is, we can't compete, labor wise, with a junior upstart, such as Compass.

Regarding a 2-1 swap. The less airframes we operate, the more we cost. We need airframes to get cost in line, not lose them. I'm hoping DAL tosses us a bone in the way of the airframes, and trims fat from other hubs as their primary reduction in feeder flying. However, with that said- "hope don't float"....

Regarding the pay cuts, in my view. I refuse to do anything until I see how Pinnicle shapes up with their contract. They've still got theirs to go, along with Republic. It's also going to be interesting to see where this "minimum contract requirement clause" heads, under the guise of the DAL MEC and the DCI contract carriers.

All I know, is I know what I'm worth, and it's more than I currently make. I'm not giving up one dime at this company, so my advise to them would be to explore other avenues. Scheduling, hotels, pbs, etc- it's not up to me to carry the weight of managements burden. I'm very pro ASA, and I'll continue to pour my heart out for the company and it's people, but I've got a price for that loyalty, and it's what I currently make.

Here's hoping that our tallented management team prevails and comes through..........

 

[79%N1]

Last time I counted, losing 20 aircraft and getting 10 back was a net loss of 10. Rather large difference, but a loss none the less.

You are right....but, everybody forgets, we are currently staffed for the 10 900's, but still have all of the 20 200's in our fleet. So, when they leave it will feel like a loss of 20 more aircraft at that time. It's not like we are hiring for these 10 900's. In fact, even with these 900's coming on property, we are still fat on pilots. So, in theory, next summer when they take out the 20 200's from our fleet, we will then be 100 FO's over staffed at that time. Again, that is only if nothing else changes....

 

[CFI2766]

They are going away in any case. Might as well get some 900s in exchange.

Concur.

Far better than a two-for-zero swap.

 

[CFI2766]

They are going away in any case. Might as well get some 900s in exchange.

Concur.

Far better than a two-for-zero swap.

 

[SoberIrishman]

Just look at the airlines that have "booted" Comair from CVG. That's where the problem lies. Now they are in ATL and doing the same thing to ASA.
Comair was once the regional all others tried to emulate, and look how they have been treated. Mainline doesn't care as long as they cut costs to the bone, but cheapest isn't always better, and it's going to bite them later.
Same thing with the ground handling thing. ASA doesn't have more than a few stations left. Mesaba and Pinchnickel have poached them all away, and they're doing a real bad job since taking over. They won't even open up a station after hours to handle a diversion if it's not one ot their flights! This is causing a real headache with our dispatchers when flight planning.

 

[crj567]

i talked to several alpa guys who said no concessions were even discussed. where do you get all the doom and gloom from? things are tough now, i imagine that our q1 results arent good. isnt it a good thing that they are meeting. i dont see concessions even being asked for, more likely they will try other options well before pay to save dough. thank god we pilots are so well educated on perfect managment techniques. just shut up and fly.

Remember the last time they showed the MEC our financials? Furloughs followed closely behind that little chit-chat. You can bet smething is going on-no company shows anyone stuf like that without a good reason.

 

[USCtrojan]

You are right....but, everybody forgets, we are currently staffed for the 10 900's, but still have all of the 20 200's in our fleet. So, when they leave it will feel like a loss of 20 more aircraft at that time. It's not like we are hiring for these 10 900's. In fact, even with these 900's coming on property, we are still fat on pilots. So, in theory, next summer when they take out the 20 200's from our fleet, we will then be 100 FO's over staffed at that time. Again, that is only if nothing else changes....

What if those Delta Connection 50 seat airplanes have a home with another Legacy Carrier? We are gaining ground here, so much information is not privy to us at the frontlines. BH all but said at the town hall meetings we have homes for all the 50 seats we are "loosing" (had to do that to keep FI real). Perhaps there is more out there we are not aware of. In the SkyW Inc. 4th Qtr. earning report, Brad Rich, CFO said they had found homes for 7 of our 20 and were very optomistic about finding homes for the other 13. Additionally, what if they found homes for another 25-30, all the while getting 19-20 90 seat aircraft? I'm very impressed that at the town hall meetings, pay cuts or any other type of concession wasn't even talked about. Not even casually.

Trojan

 

[BOX OFFICE]

.....

 

[sweptback]

They won't even open up a station after hours to handle a diversion if it's not one ot their flights! This is causing a real headache with our dispatchers when flight planning.

Wow. You think that would be a violation of the contract to handle that station.

I think ASA should have the planes divert there anyway, then call the FBO over to handle the airplane and send the bill to Delta.

 

[USCtrojan]

Let them take some from Pinnacle, Chatauqua and Freedom and anyone else.

ASA just took delivery of one 900 from 9E. This pain will go around and around, not just at EV.

Trojan