ASA/COMAIR Set To Expand CRJ70s

[~~~^~~~]

Isn't there any possibility of a compromise between the ALPA units at the mainline and connection carriers?

Perhaps a "joint scope" agreement. Something that will allow a transition from the current scope language to something more inclusive over a period of 5 years or so.

Treme: You are correct. The ASA and Comair MEC's tried to engage the Delta MEC in just such a dialogue. ALPA National even wrote about "system scope." However, the Delta pilots' MEC does see any benefit to a system scope solution because they can control any flying they want through their superior bargaining position, maintained by blocking ASA's access to the bargaining table. (And they are correct until the law it upheld and we rescue our union from this hijacking)

You have an excellent idea, but it would take leadership and moral charater to execute it.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Oh come on. It is one thing to be confused, but you guys know better. Here we go again - ALPA will not allow the ASA MEC to enter into negotiations with Delta over scope due to objections by the Delta MEC. Repeated representational requests to ALPA have been denied and referred to the Bilateral Scope Impact Committee for study..... where they will be studied..... and studied...... until the Delta MEC is willing to work with us (my guess I'll retire first). After three full years the BSIC has yet to report one word on the impact of mainline bargaining.

Now, how exactly are we supposed to achieve scope when we can not contract with the party that controls the flying? We can not legally bind a third party (Delta) who is a non-signatory to the agreement and ALPA again, how many times must I repeat this, will not allow Comair or ASA to negotiate scope that binds Delta. ALPA does not want us having that kind of power.

This is the crux of the representational litigation brought by the RJDC. The RJDC is the only way that Connection pilots might ever be able to achieve scope and the only way scope will actually work to protect mainline jobs. (You think Contract 2000 scope has worked???)

P.S. A group of mainline pilots hired Mike Haber, the RJDC's attorney, to bring their own DFR claim against ALPA. I'll post a link on the general board to their web site when I get time to look it up again.

Oh, I see now. Scope is good, but if you don't have the resources to get it, then no one should have it.

You rjdc guys may want to take a break from posting. Your BS is showing more and more. STOP the BS, explain to the people what would happen if rjdc prevailed...........there would be ZERO job protection until you found the group of pilots that could fly for free. Even this group may not be protected, you may find pilots who are willing to PAY for the chance to fly 757's and such.

Lastly, I ask you this.....What do you want the outcome of all this to be? Don't beat around the bush here. I want to know what types of planes you want for dci and the pay rates you would like to fly them at. After you do all this, I would like to know how you intend on protecting your jobs...

NYR

I don't know why I can't ignore you rjdc guys. God knows I am trying. Fly safe.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

RANGER!,

We want all future 777 and the new Airbus 380!!!!

Why don't you grow up. The law suit is about DFR. Period.

And you know it. Instead of protecting our interest ALPA chose to ignore them in favor of the Delta pilots. ALPA, the UNION we pay dues to spent a lot of money to help Delta pilots negotiate away air frames we had coming. When we were bought, we had a heck of a lot more than 58 70 seaters coming. Our UNION fought against us when they should of been fighting for us. Thus, the DFR law suit.

You can spin it any way you want, but we pay for ALPA and the last thing we expect is for them to work against OUR best interset.

Now, do you have a beef with us wanting more larger aircraft?? I am sure you do. Can't blame you for that at all. But the Delta MEC decided long ago it would be better to build walls between us than work with us. We are fighting for our interest. We are seperate airlines according to your MEC. And like any other pilot group, we want to grow.

 

[ACE]

AFELLOWAVIATOR,
I would just give up trying to explain the RJDC to any Delta pilot. They are never going to get it, because they just don't want too. We know the truth, let them keep whinning about it all they want.

 

[NYRANGERS]

AFELLOWAVIATOR,
I would just give up trying to explain the RJDC to any Delta pilot. They are never going to get it, because they just don't want too. We know the truth, let them keep whinning about it all they want.

Lastly, I ask you this.....What do you want the outcome of all this to be? Don't beat around the bush here. I want to know what types of planes you want for dci and the pay rates you would like to fly them at. After you do all this, I would like to know how you intend on protecting your jobs...

NYR

This kind of question has been asked many times. Most recently asked of Mr. Brieling and Ford. To this date no specifics have been addressed. It seems once to have to explain exactly where you would like to see your selves (ie. Aircraft types and pay, and how you plane on protecting your fellow pilots once you have all the planes), you just start babling about how no one understands you guys and so on and so on.

I wish you guys sucess and happiness with your careers, just not at the expense of mine or any other pilots. Good luck in your pursuit of other peoples jobs and money.




NYR

 

[wil]

If ALPA is representing us I would like quality of life issues on par with mainline. I would like to see the 5 year Captain pay on the 50 seater at 85 per hour. I think the 50/70 CRJ is a good mix for us.
I believe that my job is to feed mainline. I want to see mainline grow exponentially! It has been shown that for a 140 seat market 3 RJ flights cannit replace a MD-80. With all the pax I see in the terminals there is no excuse for Delta not to be making money!! We are feeding a broken business model.
NYR- In no way do I want to take someones job. This is no game and we all have a lot on the line. Fair representation is the goal.

 

[NYRANGERS]

If ALPA is representing us I would like quality of life issues on par with mainline. I would like to see the 5 year Captain pay on the 50 seater at 85 per hour. I think the 50/70 CRJ is a good mix for us.
I believe that my job is to feed mainline. I want to see mainline grow exponentially! It has been shown that for a 140 seat market 3 RJ flights cannit replace a MD-80. With all the pax I see in the terminals there is no excuse for Delta not to be making money!! We are feeding a broken business model.
NYR- In no way do I want to take someones job. This is no game and we all have a lot on the line. Fair representation is the goal.

I completly agree with your post. Thanks for responding, sometimes when you spell it out plain and simple, we find we are more in agreement than not. I just don't see how rjdc is the way to go here.

rjdc aside, I support you in your goal to obtain higher rates and better work rules. You are so right about Delta not making money with over 80% load factors. Hell, we made money with 60% before. It's time for management to focus on revenue as much as they are on cost.

Thanks for the response,

NYR

Now if we can only get John and Dan to spell out what they want and more importantly how they plan on keeping it. (I won't hold my breath).

 

[46Driver]

This is in no way meant to be incendiary, but how do you propose management raise revenue? LCC's are growing like kudzu, the leisure traveller is using the internet, and business travellers are unwilling to fork out the astronomical fares they did in the late 90's.

 

[NYRANGERS]

This is in no way meant to be incendiary, but how do you propose management raise revenue? LCC's are growing like kudzu, the leisure traveller is using the internet, and business travellers are unwilling to fork out the astronomical fares they did in the late 90's.

I don't think I need to answer that, or even have the answer. I hear we have some little Harvard guy who got $13,000,000+ in compensation last year. Rumor has it he may be the guy who we should look to for these answers, and if not maybe he should make what I make from Delta...........$0.

I don't mean this as a smart as$ comment to you, I agree that it is the worst we have seen. I just think that our management is too focused on cost (after all, they can fail and leave with $65,000,000). Hell, show us something that justifies making more than Neeleman or Leonard.

 

[Treme]

46 Driver,

I asked my 3rd grade daughter your question and she told me that it is all about supply and demand.

She said that if the airlines are filling the airplanes with 80%+ load factors than the airlines should raise prices until the company is achieving approximately 65%-73% load factors.

I sent her resume to Atlanta but I doubt she has much of a shot. She makes too much sense.

Quit trying to compete with the LCCs. Fly your own plane and let the other guy worry about his.

Delta provides and excellent product. There could be some customer service initiatives that would make it an even better one. Provide that product at a price that the public is willing to pay and who CARES what the LCCs are doing?

My wife still refuses to buy clothes at Walmart despite the fact that it is far less expensive to do so. I like to eat at McDonalds but from time to time I spring for Applebees... and when I buy tickets for my families vacation I might price AirTran and Jetblue, but ultimately it is my preference to buy tickets on an airline that has the network stregnth to get me where i'm going if the poop hits the fan. Thats just me.

I call it the Treme Economic model. If everybody would listen to me, the world would be a better place.

Sincerely,
Treme

PS - Boycot Jetblue

 

[NYRANGERS]

46 Driver,

I asked my 3rd grade daughter your question and she told me that it is all about supply and demand.

She said that if the airlines are filling the airplanes with 80%+ load factors than the airlines should raise prices until the company is achieving approximately 65%-73% load factors.

I sent her resume to Atlanta but I doubt she has much of a shot. She makes too much sense.

Quit trying to compete with the LCCs. Fly your own plane and let the other guy worry about his.

Delta provides and excellent product. There could be some customer service initiatives that would make it an even better one. Provide that product at a price that the public is willing to pay and who CARES what the LCCs are doing?

My wife still refuses to buy clothes at Walmart despite the fact that it is far less expensive to do so. I like to eat at McDonalds but from time to time I spring for Applebees... and when I buy tickets for my families vacation I might price AirTran and Jetblue, but ultimately it is my preference to buy tickets on an airline that has the network stregnth to get me where i'm going if the poop hits the fan. Thats just me.

I call it the Treme Economic model. If everybody would listen to me, the world would be a better place.

Sincerely,
Treme

PS - Boycot Jetblue

You have a very smart daughter. She is so right, after all, where are the pax going to go? Everyone is flying high load factors. We need to raise the price and just as importantly.....raise the quality of our product. This way, with such high load factors we may still be able to keep a break even or even profitable ~70% LF........all the while showing customers that for a few extra $ you get a better product. Eventually this may pay off, but now is the time to do it. Very soon Airtran and Jetblue will add around 100 aircraft each and the window will close.

I like your thinking, take care and all the best to the family,


NYR

 

[46Driver]

I think you are right, the window of opportunity is a small one and closing rapidly. Air Tran, Jet Blue, and SouthWest are all set to expand and ACA is jumping into the LCC game with 85 RJ's and roughly 25 narrow bodies.

As for product differentation, I see very little difference between Delta and Air Tran when I jumpseat. If you are in coach, all Delta gives you is a bag of pretzels (or some of those little biscuits) - there is no difference between the two airlines. I have also heard that JetBlue has an outstanding entertainment system. I understand that the frequent flyer miles are a big draw to some pax but if you want to charge a premium price, what are you going to provide for that price?

 

[General Lee]

46driver,

Well, Song will eventually have a better entertainment system than Jetblue's (early 2004??), and it will take a few more years for the LCCs to get that much bigger, so hopefully Delta will stop getting smaller and get in there and fight. Flying the planes more throughout the day, like allnighters, can add to the minimum revenue needed to pay for the daily fixed costs of each aircraft---like daily lease payments, insurance, gas, etc. We have been adding back a lot more allnighters---Song out of LAS to MCO, FLL and TPA for example. Hopefully we will see more of that.


Fins,

So, we're going to take the moral high road, huh? How about we do something with the 1310 pilots who are out of work? That would be the right thing to do, right? Let's give them some new 70 seaters to fly, and then they can feed their families and get back into the air. You and me both are flying and making good wages, but they are out. But, you guys want to expand. If we flew some of the new 70 seaters (not yours), the senior guys on furlough could fly as Captain and make more money than being an ASA FO (which was a nice gesture of yours, and I mean that).
Also, if we flew some 70 seaters, more of our furloughs would come back faster, helping their overall situation. I think they are the ones who are really over looked here.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

46driver,



But, you guys want to expand. If we flew some of the new 70 seaters (not yours),


You see, this is part of the problem. Who decided what is ours?? Who negotiated what we would fly?? A separate pilot group within the same company. And with the help of OUR Union.
If you can't see where we have a problem with that, then there is no use in talking about it with you any more.

 

[trainerjet]

If you can't see where we have a problem with that, then there is no use in talking about it with you any more.

The problem it that your head is so far up and locked and your vision so myopic, that you can't even understand what the General was saying.

That's reason enough for YOU not to talk anymore.