ASA/COMAIR Set To Expand CRJ70s

[wil]

If ALPA is representing us I would like quality of life issues on par with mainline. I would like to see the 5 year Captain pay on the 50 seater at 85 per hour. I think the 50/70 CRJ is a good mix for us.
I believe that my job is to feed mainline. I want to see mainline grow exponentially! It has been shown that for a 140 seat market 3 RJ flights cannit replace a MD-80. With all the pax I see in the terminals there is no excuse for Delta not to be making money!! We are feeding a broken business model.
NYR- In no way do I want to take someones job. This is no game and we all have a lot on the line. Fair representation is the goal.

 

[NYRANGERS]

If ALPA is representing us I would like quality of life issues on par with mainline. I would like to see the 5 year Captain pay on the 50 seater at 85 per hour. I think the 50/70 CRJ is a good mix for us.
I believe that my job is to feed mainline. I want to see mainline grow exponentially! It has been shown that for a 140 seat market 3 RJ flights cannit replace a MD-80. With all the pax I see in the terminals there is no excuse for Delta not to be making money!! We are feeding a broken business model.
NYR- In no way do I want to take someones job. This is no game and we all have a lot on the line. Fair representation is the goal.

I completly agree with your post. Thanks for responding, sometimes when you spell it out plain and simple, we find we are more in agreement than not. I just don't see how rjdc is the way to go here.

rjdc aside, I support you in your goal to obtain higher rates and better work rules. You are so right about Delta not making money with over 80% load factors. Hell, we made money with 60% before. It's time for management to focus on revenue as much as they are on cost.

Thanks for the response,

NYR

Now if we can only get John and Dan to spell out what they want and more importantly how they plan on keeping it. (I won't hold my breath).

 

[46Driver]

This is in no way meant to be incendiary, but how do you propose management raise revenue? LCC's are growing like kudzu, the leisure traveller is using the internet, and business travellers are unwilling to fork out the astronomical fares they did in the late 90's.

 

[NYRANGERS]

This is in no way meant to be incendiary, but how do you propose management raise revenue? LCC's are growing like kudzu, the leisure traveller is using the internet, and business travellers are unwilling to fork out the astronomical fares they did in the late 90's.

I don't think I need to answer that, or even have the answer. I hear we have some little Harvard guy who got $13,000,000+ in compensation last year. Rumor has it he may be the guy who we should look to for these answers, and if not maybe he should make what I make from Delta...........$0.

I don't mean this as a smart as$ comment to you, I agree that it is the worst we have seen. I just think that our management is too focused on cost (after all, they can fail and leave with $65,000,000). Hell, show us something that justifies making more than Neeleman or Leonard.

 

[Treme]

46 Driver,

I asked my 3rd grade daughter your question and she told me that it is all about supply and demand.

She said that if the airlines are filling the airplanes with 80%+ load factors than the airlines should raise prices until the company is achieving approximately 65%-73% load factors.

I sent her resume to Atlanta but I doubt she has much of a shot. She makes too much sense.

Quit trying to compete with the LCCs. Fly your own plane and let the other guy worry about his.

Delta provides and excellent product. There could be some customer service initiatives that would make it an even better one. Provide that product at a price that the public is willing to pay and who CARES what the LCCs are doing?

My wife still refuses to buy clothes at Walmart despite the fact that it is far less expensive to do so. I like to eat at McDonalds but from time to time I spring for Applebees... and when I buy tickets for my families vacation I might price AirTran and Jetblue, but ultimately it is my preference to buy tickets on an airline that has the network stregnth to get me where i'm going if the poop hits the fan. Thats just me.

I call it the Treme Economic model. If everybody would listen to me, the world would be a better place.

Sincerely,
Treme

PS - Boycot Jetblue

 

[NYRANGERS]

46 Driver,

I asked my 3rd grade daughter your question and she told me that it is all about supply and demand.

She said that if the airlines are filling the airplanes with 80%+ load factors than the airlines should raise prices until the company is achieving approximately 65%-73% load factors.

I sent her resume to Atlanta but I doubt she has much of a shot. She makes too much sense.

Quit trying to compete with the LCCs. Fly your own plane and let the other guy worry about his.

Delta provides and excellent product. There could be some customer service initiatives that would make it an even better one. Provide that product at a price that the public is willing to pay and who CARES what the LCCs are doing?

My wife still refuses to buy clothes at Walmart despite the fact that it is far less expensive to do so. I like to eat at McDonalds but from time to time I spring for Applebees... and when I buy tickets for my families vacation I might price AirTran and Jetblue, but ultimately it is my preference to buy tickets on an airline that has the network stregnth to get me where i'm going if the poop hits the fan. Thats just me.

I call it the Treme Economic model. If everybody would listen to me, the world would be a better place.

Sincerely,
Treme

PS - Boycot Jetblue

You have a very smart daughter. She is so right, after all, where are the pax going to go? Everyone is flying high load factors. We need to raise the price and just as importantly.....raise the quality of our product. This way, with such high load factors we may still be able to keep a break even or even profitable ~70% LF........all the while showing customers that for a few extra $ you get a better product. Eventually this may pay off, but now is the time to do it. Very soon Airtran and Jetblue will add around 100 aircraft each and the window will close.

I like your thinking, take care and all the best to the family,


NYR

 

[46Driver]

I think you are right, the window of opportunity is a small one and closing rapidly. Air Tran, Jet Blue, and SouthWest are all set to expand and ACA is jumping into the LCC game with 85 RJ's and roughly 25 narrow bodies.

As for product differentation, I see very little difference between Delta and Air Tran when I jumpseat. If you are in coach, all Delta gives you is a bag of pretzels (or some of those little biscuits) - there is no difference between the two airlines. I have also heard that JetBlue has an outstanding entertainment system. I understand that the frequent flyer miles are a big draw to some pax but if you want to charge a premium price, what are you going to provide for that price?

 

[General Lee]

46driver,

Well, Song will eventually have a better entertainment system than Jetblue's (early 2004??), and it will take a few more years for the LCCs to get that much bigger, so hopefully Delta will stop getting smaller and get in there and fight. Flying the planes more throughout the day, like allnighters, can add to the minimum revenue needed to pay for the daily fixed costs of each aircraft---like daily lease payments, insurance, gas, etc. We have been adding back a lot more allnighters---Song out of LAS to MCO, FLL and TPA for example. Hopefully we will see more of that.


Fins,

So, we're going to take the moral high road, huh? How about we do something with the 1310 pilots who are out of work? That would be the right thing to do, right? Let's give them some new 70 seaters to fly, and then they can feed their families and get back into the air. You and me both are flying and making good wages, but they are out. But, you guys want to expand. If we flew some of the new 70 seaters (not yours), the senior guys on furlough could fly as Captain and make more money than being an ASA FO (which was a nice gesture of yours, and I mean that).
Also, if we flew some 70 seaters, more of our furloughs would come back faster, helping their overall situation. I think they are the ones who are really over looked here.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

46driver,



But, you guys want to expand. If we flew some of the new 70 seaters (not yours),


You see, this is part of the problem. Who decided what is ours?? Who negotiated what we would fly?? A separate pilot group within the same company. And with the help of OUR Union.
If you can't see where we have a problem with that, then there is no use in talking about it with you any more.

 

[trainerjet]

If you can't see where we have a problem with that, then there is no use in talking about it with you any more.

The problem it that your head is so far up and locked and your vision so myopic, that you can't even understand what the General was saying.

That's reason enough for YOU not to talk anymore.

 

[surplus1]

I wish you guys sucess and happiness with your careers, just not at the expense of mine or any other pilots. Good luck in your pursuit of other peoples jobs and money.
NYR

Right up until you said that I was actually listening to what you had to say. Now I've reverted to seeing you as just another unhappy Delta pilot who ignores the forest while focusing on his favorite tree.

I can't speak for either of the gentlemen you mentioned by name, but if you were serious and really wanted to know what the RJDC wants, you would. We've been trying to tell you for years now but you and yours only listen to what you want to hear and the rest falls on deaf ears. Otherwise you would already have the answer to your questions. Besides, you wouldn't believe us if we did try to tell you again.

A long time ago I believe the RJDC made a "settlement proposal" to ALPA, which ALPA rejected. I suggest you ask your MEC to get it from ALPA and give it to you. Then you will know what the RJDC wants from your own leadership. Even if that proposal is no longer on the table (I don't know if it is), it should give you a good idea.

I hope that answers your questions, but I really don't think that anything will. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

PS. I'll make a side bet that if you do ask your MEC you'll get some excuse as to why they can't tell you, that is if you get any answer at all. You see, they really don't want you to know and they're on your side.

 

[surplus1]

Isn't there any possibility of a compromise between the ALPA units at the mainline and connection carriers?

Perhaps a "joint scope" agreement.

Nice post sir. A joint scope agreement would be a good starter, provided the negotiations give each of the parties an equal voice in its development.

The rest of your post contains many additional good ideas. Some may need refinement and others, like flow through, may have no value but you are thinking and that's what's important.

It is not likely that any solution will be perfect and compromise will probably be required on both sides. However, in my opinion, one thing is certain. As long as the DMEC maintains the position that it and it alone will unilaterally make the decisions this dispute cannot be settled out of court.

The attitude and the belief on the part of the DMEC that it alone may dictate at will the future and fate of Comair and ASA pilots, either within the Delta System or within the ALPA, must go or there will be no solution other than one mandated by a court of law.

Thanks for advancing your ideas. They were constructive and well worth reading.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

You'll never see a combined list. Never. It is ONLY up to management, and with the internal strife between the three groups going on now, they are laughing all the way to the bank. Not with doh, not with staple, not with anything.

 

[V-1]

You are so right about Delta not making money with over 80% load factors. Hell, we made money with 60% before.

When will we pilots understand that load factors are only one side of the equation? If the consumer is reluctant to buy a product, the price must be lowered. Once price reaches a certain level, profit can't be made regardless how many products are sold.

Low-cost carriers, the demise of irrational, stock-market euphoria driven spending, internet travel agents, etc. have brought an end to the days of making profits with 60% load factors for the time being. The supplier must have enough flexibility to adjust capacity to demand, or risk failure.

Just because a company is selling a product doesn't mean they are financially viable.

Respectfully

 

[ACE]

I wish you guys sucess and happiness with your careers, just not at the expense of mine or any other pilots. Good luck in your pursuit of other peoples jobs and money.

NYR,If that is not the pot calling the kettle black.

Lastly, I ask you this.....What do you want the outcome of all this to be? Don't beat around the bush here. I want to know what types of planes you want for dci and the pay rates you would like to fly them at. After you do all this, I would like to know how you intend on protecting your jobs...

Again NYR, I'm not going to keep arguing over the same issues with you because you have a singleminded point of view (with a chip on your shoulder).