ASA April Schedules

[CFI2766]

ALPA built the pairings for April.

At very best, this is only tangentially true.

 

[Redan]

Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't think so.

I worked with a Scheduling Rep. I followed all the suggestions to receive an acceptable award. I set my PCT low. I worked the preferences until it was down to only 500 pairings not on my bid sheet. I did not have an abundance of confusing preferences but kept it simple. My previous bids were quite successful.

My award for April: 11 days off. 90 + hour line (with PCT set at 70). Virtually nothing I wanted including specific dates. Four 4 days plus two 2 days placed on specific dates I requested. Following ALPA's suggestion to allow single days off to enhance the chances of being awarded my preferences produced one period of 6 on-1 off-4 on, and another of 4 on-1 off-4 on. Perhaps this is my own fault but I didn't ask for all that much. Other than reserve this is the worst line I've ever had. So I have to say I'm not quite sold on the system yet.

 

[Nevets]

Well, I think if you took a poll right now, the vast majority of ASA pilots are getting what they want. Who wouldn't rather have a 18hr three day over a 18hr four day. I don't get your point. So what you are saying is that being as far back as I am on the airplane, and getting that many days off, commutable trips and 85 hrs of pay isn't flexible enough? I can literally pick days I want to work and which trips I want to work. How is that not flexible enough? I don't even have to put "effort" into it and I have a lot of control over my schedule. And I only spend 30 minutes a month on bidding. No more wasting time swapping or trading.

Maybe for you, you got everything you wanted. But not everyone gets everything they wanted because their seniority didn't allow it. Their in lies one problem. Just read Redan's post above. In our system, he would have the opportunity to trade, move days off, drop, and or pick up all types of trips. The point is that in our system, I can trade my 18 hour 4 day for the 18 hour 3 day or the 12 hour 2 day or even a 7 hour day trip. I can do that even though my seniority didn't allow me to hold any of those trips. And even if its flexible enough, what is wrong with even more flexibility? Or are you of the mind that you are currently paid enough so no need to try to improve pay? Not much effort goes into our trip trading and the flexibility of it vastly outweighs whatever effort you would perceive out of trading, dropping, and picking up trips your seniority wouldn't allow on your original line anyways. I only spend about 30 minutes as well and to many of us, that time is not wasted when you can improve our lines with the flexibility we have to do it. And lastly, the system is so flexible that if its too much effort and waste of a time, no one forces you to improve your line. Just bid a reasonable amount of lines that your seniority would be able to hold and your done.

 

[screamingpax]

Do you forget, we had line bidding as well and we could drop, swap, or trade trips. I still find this to take much less time because the trips I would normally look do in open time I am awarded to begin with. Also, my seniority will hold it but my point is I don't have much of in it my seat. I sit about 66% of the way back and I can hold it. Lastly, of course we aren't paid enough, but I think 85 hours of pay is fair for 14 days of work. If we all worked one day a month and got paid for 100 we wouldn't have a company to work for. You XJT guys seem to forget we are a fee for departure carrier. It is what it is. We have to compete with other carriers like Pinnacle, Mesa, etc. We can't just demad more money and expect flying. It's unfortunate but it's the way it is. Lowest bidder wins. Even if we all became one, somebody new would start up and undercut our costs. Welcome to the Delta Connection family!!

 

[Redan]

I would be able to possibly improve my schedule, but with all the premium open time there's virtually no chance anyone will touch my trips/split pairings posted for pick up. I would be trying to swap for open time trips on different dates or one day less but our PBS LOA only allows for swaps on the same days until the reserve lines are added on I think the 27th. As to why this is, or why they feel it's necessary to wait so long to add the reserve lines I don't know.

In Feb, by the time the reserve lines were added so much of the open time was gone that I wasn't ever able to swap any trips. In March there was gobs of open time but being under block (as most of us were) made swaps nearly impossible unless you were willing to pay the penalty for going under the block of the original award. For April there should be allot of open time and I might be able to do some swaps after the reserve lines are finally added but the odds of early month swaps will be minimal. Being able to significantly improve my schedule is probably unlikely.

It was widely forecast that company would "improve" the April pairings to pacify the pilot group and it appears to have worked. However, the PBS LOA remains in place which allows them latitude to do virtually whatever they want, so a repeat performance of March could happen again at any time. Once again, the problem isn't PBS so much as the LOA allowing company near carte blanche in pairing construction. Since the ASA pilots are so easily pacified, the consistent pressure to change this in the JCBA may not be likely from our end.

 

[Medeco]

Do you think the company is going to allow the association to totally control the pairing construction?

ASA pilots being easily pacified is a stretch.

I think being realistic to the circumstances we are required to work under is a bit more true.

 

[princeton]

Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't think so.

...

My award for April: 11 days off. 90 + hour line (with PCT set at 70). Virtually nothing I wanted including specific dates. Four 4 days plus two 2 days placed on specific dates I requested. Following ALPA's suggestion to allow single days off to enhance the chances of being awarded my preferences produced one period of 6 on-1 off-4 on, and another of 4 on-1 off-4 on. Perhaps this is my own fault but I didn't ask for all that much. Other than reserve this is the worst line I've ever had. So I have to say I'm not quite sold on the system yet.

See, that's my concern with PBS (I'm XJT) - no flexibility.

This month, although I was awarded a crappy 12 day off 95 hour line; it took me two minutes in the initial line improvement window to get a 17 day off, 80 hour line with all 18 hour productive easy 3-day trips (with recurrent on the days I requested and six days off in a row on the days I wanted for a wedding in Europe).

If they're offering 200% I can pick IF I feel like it. Not saying that you can do it every month but in general it works.

All in all, that took me FIVE minutes: 2 minutes to bid my line (using the automatic line sorting tool) and three minutes in the ILIW (most of which was spent practicing hitting the "trade" button within a one second window)

 

[ace6453]

See, that's my concern with PBS (I'm XJT) - no flexibility. This month, although I was awarded a crappy 12 day off 95 hour line; it took me two minutes in the initial line improvement window to get a 17 day off, 80 hour line with all 18 hour productive easy 3-day trips (with recurrent on the days I requested and five days off in a row on the days I wanted for a wedding in Europe).

If they're offering 200% I can pick IF I feel like it. Not saying that you can do it every month but in general it works.

I have been generally happy with PBS, but we can't do anything like that. Are you able to trade your crappy 4 days for 3 days with no regard to the reserve staffing for those days? We can try to trade 4 for 3 days but hardly works due to no reserves. That sounds much better than what we have (PBS) or had (line bidding).

 

[princeton]

I have been generally happy with PBS, but we can't do anything like that. Are you able to trade your crappy 4 days for 3 days with no regard to the reserve staffing for those days? We can try to trade 4 for 3 days but hardly works due to no reserves. That sounds much better than what we have (PBS) or had (line bidding).

Yes. In the INITIAL Line Improvement Window which occurs just after your line is awarded (i.e. around 2 weeks before the month even starts and before the reserves get to bid) you can trade all you want.

They are only allowed to have a few days locked with negative coverage (four, I think). All the rest you can trade down on (i.e. a 2 day for a three day etc.). However, typically the ability to drop days goes away quickly as every one else drops.

The rest of the time (after the reserves are loaded etc.) you can trade away days IF there's enough coverage on the days you are dropping compared to the day you are picking up. (e.g. this month I traded away a 3-day picking up a 1-day on a day that had worse reserve coverage, even though all the days had negative reserve coverage)

 

[Freebrd]

that be the problem at ASEY, co wants as much control over QOL as possible and uses pairings, OT, and no trade/pickups til reserves get their schedule. line holders should be able to swap like XJT and then reserves get wat be left, sorry reserves, but that be the way it should be working

 

[LazyLightnin']

that be the problem at ASEY, co wants as much control over QOL as possible and uses pairings, OT, and no trade/pickups til reserves get their schedule. line holders should be able to swap like XJT and then reserves get wat be left, sorry reserves, but that be the way it should be working

u sofa king we todd did

 

[ASA_Aviator]

At very best, this is only tangentially true.

ALPA built a solution, and the company built a solution. The decision was made to go with the ALPA solution.

Exactly how is that tangentially true, and not actually true?

I understand why ALPA doesn't want people to know they built the pairings. It is much harder to blame the company that way.

 

[the palm]

ALPA built a solution, and the company built a solution. The decision was made to go with the ALPA solution.

Exactly how is that tangentially true, and not actually true?

I understand why ALPA doesn't want people to know they built the pairings. It is much harder to blame the company that way.

If the ALPA pairings were bad I shudder to think the misery that would have been caused by the company's pairings.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

If the ALPA pairings were bad I shudder to think the misery that would have been caused by the company's pairings.

You're probably right...

 

[Speedtape]

Maybe for you, you got everything you wanted. But not everyone gets everything they wanted because their seniority didn't allow it. Their in lies one problem. Just read Redan's post above. In our system, he would have the opportunity to trade, move days off, drop, and or pick up all types of trips. The point is that in our system, I can trade my 18 hour 4 day for the 18 hour 3 day or the 12 hour 2 day or even a 7 hour day trip. I can do that even though my seniority didn't allow me to hold any of those trips. And even if its flexible enough, what is wrong with even more flexibility? Or are you of the mind that you are currently paid enough so no need to try to improve pay? Not much effort goes into our trip trading and the flexibility of it vastly outweighs whatever effort you would perceive out of trading, dropping, and picking up trips your seniority wouldn't allow on your original line anyways. I only spend about 30 minutes as well and to many of us, that time is not wasted when you can improve our lines with the flexibility we have to do it. And lastly, the system is so flexible that if its too much effort and waste of a time, no one forces you to improve your line. Just bid a reasonable amount of lines that your seniority would be able to hold and your done.

Bless his heart! Redan is still learning how to bid, and that's ok because he is creating quality of life for those below him. Bless his heart!

Run Redan, Run!

 

[Speedtape]

ALPA built a solution, and the company built a solution. The decision was made to go with the ALPA solution.

Exactly how is that tangentially true, and not actually true?

I understand why ALPA doesn't want people to know they built the pairings. It is much harder to blame the company that way.

Punk'n, have you ever heard the term crap in crap out? It's all about the raw materials used. Credit on our legs averages about 1:15. How can you do much better? Longer legs would be the key. Our Mother Ship commanders do not want us to have longer legs because that would make us more profitable. They are playing the game of slowly shrinking us into unprofitability, one leg at a time. Now find someone else to blame!

 

[Plainsman]

Punk'n, have you ever heard the term crap in crap out? It's all about the raw materials used. Credit on our legs averages about 1:15. How can you do much better? Longer legs would be the key. Our Mother Ship commanders do not want us to have longer legs because that would make us more profitable. They are playing the game of slowly shrinking us into unprofitability, one leg at a time. Now find someone else to blame!

Crap in crap out. For a second there I thought you were talking about our ALPA leaders.

 

[Speedtape]

See, that's my concern with PBS (I'm XJT) - no flexibility.

This month, although I was awarded a crappy 12 day off 95 hour line; it took me two minutes in the initial line improvement window to get a 17 day off, 80 hour line with all 18 hour productive easy 3-day trips (with recurrent on the days I requested and six days off in a row on the days I wanted for a wedding in Europe).

If they're offering 200% I can pick IF I feel like it. Not saying that you can do it every month but in general it works.

All in all, that took me FIVE minutes: 2 minutes to bid my line (using the automatic line sorting tool) and three minutes in the ILIW (most of which was spent practicing hitting the "trade" button within a one second window)

Well, maybe in our next life, when Xjet buys us, we can get your system. I think your system is one of many reasons you were bought at a fire sale. I am not kicking dirt on you, but it's the reality of the new world order. There is an addendum to an old saying: "If it's too good to be true, and it is, then like good weather, it want last long!"

I like your system, but not at the cost of my job. It almost cost you, yours. With this acquistion, we are all making sacrifices. I would rather have my job than stand in an unemployment line. I've bee there, done that, and don't want to do it again.

 

[Speedtape]

Crap in crap out. For a second there I thought you were talking about our ALPA leaders.

Haha As long as I have been here, there are pilots in the group that always like to bash those who they elected into positions to represent us. If one uses the sorry excuse that one didn't vote, guess what? You helped elect them even through no pariticipation through default.

I have always made it a point to vote, and also to get to know them. Some have been better than others, but I respect them all for giving their time to trying to make a difference.

Enough said.

 

[goahead]

Well, maybe in our next life, when Xjet buys us, we can get your system. I think your system is one of many reasons you were bought at a fire sale. I am not kicking dirt on you, but it's the reality of the new world order. There is an addendum to an old saying: "If it's too good to be true, and it is, then like good weather, it want last long!"

I like your system, but not at the cost of my job. It almost cost you, yours. With this acquistion, we are all making sacrifices. I would rather have my job than stand in an unemployment line. I've bee there, done that, and don't want to do it again.

Agree man

 

[princeton]

Well, maybe in our next life, when Xjet buys us, we can get your system. I think your system is one of many reasons you were bought at a fire sale. I am not kicking dirt on you, but it's the reality of the new world order. There is an addendum to an old saying: "If it's too good to be true, and it is, then like good weather, it want last long!"

I like your system, but not at the cost of my job. It almost cost you, yours. With this acquistion, we are all making sacrifices. I would rather have my job than stand in an unemployment line. I've bee there, done that, and don't want to do it again.

So you're saying we should go with the Skywest system since Skywest bought Xjt?

 

[LazyLightnin']

So you're saying we should go with the Skywest system since Skywest bought Xjt?

Maybe.. But your new company isn't called Skywest.... or Expressjet.... Is it?

 

[Dannone]

Anyone who thinks Expressjet's contract is the reason they were in bankruptcy is brainwashed!!! The problem was they had a bad situation thrown on them by Continental. The Expressjet pilots actually had a good contract and want to make it better in the merger. Seems like ASA pilots want to keep acting like they don't want those Expressjet guys over here, they are asking for too much!!!! This attitude is killing any chance we have of getting anything accomplished in our JCBA.
1. Expressjet contract is not the reason for bankruptcy the load factor was, more planes and way less passengers than ASA.
2. ASA is profitable, even during the merger which is unusual for airlines, and you better believe accountants can be pretty creative when they want numbers to look a certain way. I know, I am one.
I want better than Expressjet's old contract and I am more than willing to fight for just that!! As for those who would rather keep their job than fight for a better contract, are you kidding me?? Btw, I just spoke to someone on ASA's merger committee who told me he had personally gone to CT and told him the Expressjet pilot's were asking for too much!!! Whaaaat?? The ranks are split already?? Love to hear from everyone who said he may be an jerk, but he is our jerk!! Lets see, everyone who ever flew with him hates him, but he will be really good in a merger!!! Nice logic, The ASA pilot group needs to grow some and quickly because it ain't getting any better without that happening!!!

 

[Redan]

Well, maybe in our next life, when Xjet buys us, we can get your system. I think your system is one of many reasons you were bought at a fire sale. I am not kicking dirt on you, but it's the reality of the new world order. There is an addendum to an old saying: "If it's too good to be true, and it is, then like good weather, it want last long!"

I like your system, but not at the cost of my job. It almost cost you, yours. With this acquistion, we are all making sacrifices. I would rather have my job than stand in an unemployment line. I've bee there, done that, and don't want to do it again.

For time immemorial airline managements have strenuously labored to build the illusion that the pilot's (or FA's or mechanic's or you fill in the blank) contract is going to bankrupt the company, or lately the line is make it non-competitive. With a few exceptions mostly at major airlines, this is always complete hogwash. What is so very sad and disappointing is when you see pilots who actually buy into this giant pile of crap. Very sad indeed.

 

[Redan]

With the opening of April open time today I had hoped to somehow improve on the heinous award I mentioned earlier in this thread. Of course as I should have expected this was nothing but a complete waste of time...as usual. The results: a list of "Insufficient Reserve Coverage."

 

[Baronman]

Well, maybe in our next life, when Xjet buys us, we can get your system. I think your system is one of many reasons you were bought at a fire sale. I am not kicking dirt on you, but it's the reality of the new world order. There is an addendum to an old saying: "If it's too good to be true, and it is, then like good weather, it want last long!"

I like your system, but not at the cost of my job. It almost cost you, yours. With this acquistion, we are all making sacrifices. I would rather have my job than stand in an unemployment line. I've bee there, done that, and don't want to do it again.

Yeah, I really want to be a part of the ASA "system." It sounds great! LOL.

Get one thing straight, when you talk about this "system," this is your management's concoction, not yours. It's them, against us. We ASA/XJT pilots have more in common then you guys do with your management. Why you want to aim low is beyond me, I'm sure management appreciates it. Fortunately I think the majority of ASA/XJT pilots will want what's BEST, and not what is part of the status quo Acey "System."

 

[LazyLightnin']

Yeah, I really want to be a part of the ASA "system." It sounds great! LOL.

Get one thing straight, when you talk about this "system," this is your management's concoction, not yours. It's them, against us. We ASA/XJT pilots have more in common then you guys do with your management. Why you want to aim low is beyond me, I'm sure management appreciates it. Fortunately I think the majority of ASA/XJT pilots will want what's BEST, and not what is part of the status quo Acey "System."

Great. How bout you a-holes drop the swinging dick routine? I've seen your pilot group. You're just as ugly and retarded as my colleagues at ASA.

 

[777forever]

With the opening of April open time today I had hoped to somehow improve on the heinous award I mentioned earlier in this thread. Of course as I should have expected this was nothing but a complete waste of time...as usual. The results: a list of "Insufficient Reserve Coverage."

What are you talking about? You've been able to pick up open time since the 21st

 

[Redan]

What are you talking about? You've been able to pick up open time since the 21st

Talking about Live Open Time which opened 4 days early this month. Seniority based open time from the 21st only allows day for day swaps.

 

[dojetdriver]

Well, maybe in our next life, when Xjet buys us, we can get your system. I think your system is one of many reasons you were bought at a fire sale.

Man, I'm not sue how many times it needs to be covered. The system is NOT the reason why XJT went into a loss. When a company does a IPO/pump and dump at at a cost + 10% agreement, THEN comes back later and wants to operate at "cost neutral" agreement, but's actually a "cost negative agreement", what do you expect?

There is an addendum to an old saying: "If it's too good to be true, and it is, then like good weather, it want last long!"

Good point, and if the PBS system ever becomes too lucrative for the pilots, or the company realizes the inefficiency that the vacation drop language provides to the pilots, keep that sentiment in mind.