Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
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ASA 28-31 Aug contract neg updates?
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Future Furlough
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Sure you did. You're flying on a 10 year old contract.
So if the new contract doesn't improve on the old one, won't you have given up something?
79%N1
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What I don't understand is this....Does the company not have to show the mediator that they are willing to negotiate in good faith and move from their prior positions for the NMB to even schedule more dates? Or, can they just decide they will hold their ground in hopes we cave and the NMB signs off on that tactic? If so, what a waste of four more days this is going to be!
79%N1
I'd say yes in theory that is the way it should be played out. The last few sessions have been different in that the mediator has put a gag on the two sides in terms of details, allowing each side to put forth "what if's" with out fear of the other putting out a blast email.
Combine that, with this 4 day session which I cannot remember having in quite a while, and the fact that last session went into the wee hours of the night and we seem to be pretty close.
4 days gives the company enough time to get the yes/no back from Dr. ATKIN and cronies.
And, if nothing has come to a TA after this session I'm betting the mediator starts the clock.
We are now past the summer flying schedule and a distruption in service would have less impact on commerce.
I heard straight form the mouth of a CNC member that after the last session, "Only good things came from that meeting session", when they went in assuming it would be the same ol crap of meaningless proposals.
Medeco
I'd say yes in theory that is the way it should be played out. The last few sessions have been different in that the mediator has put a gag on the two sides in terms of details, allowing each side to put forth "what if's" with out fear of the other putting out a blast email.
Combine that, with this 4 day session which I cannot remember having in quite a while, and the fact that last session went into the wee hours of the night and we seem to be pretty close.
4 days gives the company enough time to get the yes/no back from Dr. ATKIN and cronies.
And, if nothing has come to a TA after this session I'm betting the mediator starts the clock.
We are now past the summer flying schedule and a distruption in service would have less impact on commerce.
I heard straight form the mouth of a CNC member that after the last session, "Only good things came from that meeting session", when they went in assuming it would be the same ol crap of meaningless proposals.
Medeco
ASA pilots.....I think it is time you start questioning the negotiators on BOTH sides of the table.
I just read the companies version of an update. On it they talk about how good the new TA´d scheduling section is!! It would be great but for one word that they added that makes all the differences.
They state the long call short call notification time starts from 1st "ATTEMPTED" call to the pilot.
Since when did Attempted mean we were notified of anything. The current contract states notification as the first verbal communication between the scheduler adn the pilot.....NOT ATTEMPTED contact.
Little things like this are what need to be addressed!!
I just read the companies version of an update. On it they talk about how good the new TA´d scheduling section is!! It would be great but for one word that they added that makes all the differences.
They state the long call short call notification time starts from 1st "ATTEMPTED" call to the pilot.
Since when did Attempted mean we were notified of anything. The current contract states notification as the first verbal communication between the scheduler adn the pilot.....NOT ATTEMPTED contact.
Little things like this are what need to be addressed!!
79%N1
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Cold, harsh reality...
This charade will end like all the others! Absolutely nothing will be accomplished in these four days. The company does not want to, and does not have to give an inch and complete this deal. The Union has no power to change that because the NMB is pro-management and will not let us use our only tool - a release. Expect this to continue for the foreseeable future. Skywest does not want to let us complete the deal while their pilots are considering unionizing. Delta wants it to drag out as long as possible so they can continue to dilute ASA in our one and only hub, ATL. Why else would they bring in Pinnacle, Mesa, Republic and Skywest into Atlanta while ASA stagnates? The longer the contract takes, the more we are diluted and the less leverage we have. Double-edged sword! And the sad thing, it doesnt really matter how slow we taxi or how much we write up. These guys are having their way with us, all with the blessing of the NMB. My only question is why did they bother to waste four days of sessions when they darn well know the outcome? It was so deflating to see the email last night that management basically had not improved their offer one bit! Still lacking in pay, rigs, scope and retirement. Very disappointing, but very unlikely to be resolved.
This charade will end like all the others! Absolutely nothing will be accomplished in these four days. The company does not want to, and does not have to give an inch and complete this deal. The Union has no power to change that because the NMB is pro-management and will not let us use our only tool - a release. Expect this to continue for the foreseeable future. Skywest does not want to let us complete the deal while their pilots are considering unionizing. Delta wants it to drag out as long as possible so they can continue to dilute ASA in our one and only hub, ATL. Why else would they bring in Pinnacle, Mesa, Republic and Skywest into Atlanta while ASA stagnates? The longer the contract takes, the more we are diluted and the less leverage we have. Double-edged sword! And the sad thing, it doesnt really matter how slow we taxi or how much we write up. These guys are having their way with us, all with the blessing of the NMB. My only question is why did they bother to waste four days of sessions when they darn well know the outcome? It was so deflating to see the email last night that management basically had not improved their offer one bit! Still lacking in pay, rigs, scope and retirement. Very disappointing, but very unlikely to be resolved.
I noticed that also! This is one of the reasons negotiations have taken a long time, one word changes everything. When and if a TA ever happens
better pay close attention to the fine print.
jegermeister
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Papa Woody
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Scott, is that you?
ASA AND ALPA D.C. NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE
ASA and ALPA negotiating teams met again today in
Washington, D.C. for a second day of mediated negotiations.
The National Mediation Board (NMB) has scheduled meetings
through Friday, Aug. 31.
ASA representatives include President Bryan LaBrecque and
Vice President of Flight Operations Charlie Tutt, who are
attending the sessions with high expectations to come to an
agreement on a contract that is not only fair to you, ASA’s hardworking
pilots, but for ASA’s long-term economic viability.
It is with both of these concerns in mind that ASA presented
ALPA with a proposal, giving them two options. Both were
comprehensive offers for the remaining open sections and both
offered to position ASA pilots to be among the highest paid
within the regional airline industry while providing scope
protection and signing bonuses.
ALPA returned to the negotiating table today with a counter
proposal and ASA responded late this afternoon.
It is the Company’s belief that the current negotiating session
can yield a collective bargaining agreement that all parties can
be proud of.Washington, D.C. for a second day of mediated negotiations.
The National Mediation Board (NMB) has scheduled meetings
through Friday, Aug. 31.
ASA representatives include President Bryan LaBrecque and
Vice President of Flight Operations Charlie Tutt, who are
attending the sessions with high expectations to come to an
agreement on a contract that is not only fair to you, ASA’s hardworking
pilots, but for ASA’s long-term economic viability.
It is with both of these concerns in mind that ASA presented
ALPA with a proposal, giving them two options. Both were
comprehensive offers for the remaining open sections and both
offered to position ASA pilots to be among the highest paid
within the regional airline industry while providing scope
protection and signing bonuses.
ALPA returned to the negotiating table today with a counter
proposal and ASA responded late this afternoon.
It is the Company’s belief that the current negotiating session
can yield a collective bargaining agreement that all parties can
Airboss
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2004
- Posts
- 472
Mediated negotiations resumed today in Washington D.C.
We received two proposals simultaneously, “Option 1 and
Option 2,” from management last night. Management’s Option
one proposal had better pay rates, little scope protection and nil
retro-pay. Option two had little pay rates, some scope and
slightly more retro-pay. Neither option alone was adequate to
embrace. In fact, both options combined were inadequate and
fell well short of the pilots needs in scope, pay rates, retro pay
and duty rigs.
In the morning, the Association countered comprehensive full
language proposals on all the remaining open issues. In result,
we are close to tentative agreements in Section 18 Instructor
Pilots, Section 27 Retirement, Section 28 Insurance, and Section
30 Duration. These Sections are pending final review for
typographical errors.
We remain committed to obtaining a fair agreement that offers:
job protection with minimized whip-saw threats, raises that are
commensurate with industry standards and future COLA’s, each
year. The rates we have proposed would do just that and still
allow the Company to remain extremely profitable and
competitive within the industry.
Here’s a recap of the remaining open issues:
Scope: Fragmentation, this provision dictates how aircraft can
potentially be transferred between airlines and what job
protections will be in place for ASA pilots in the event of one or
more aircraft transfer(s). We appear close in concept on some of the issues here; but, management’s proposals fall short of our
needs.
Pay rates: Lately, pay rates are all over the board in
management’s proposals. This may be intentional on their part
to try and confuse the pilots at ASA (in their updates.) At a
glance the CR2 captain rates may look ok in one proposal, but
the rest of their proposals are lacking substance. Management’s
proposals also fall short of our long standing requirement to
compensate our first officers at 60% of the Captain’s rate.
The CR7 pay rate proposals are either nothing for the duration in
option two proposal; and, 1% on DOS and 1% DOS+24 months
in option one. One thing to consider for each 1% raise on the
CR7 equates to only $264,000 per year in additional costs for
the Company. As Company profits continue to soar, they want
your salary to remain stagnant.
Profit Sharing: The Association agreed to accept the Company’s
profit sharing program to move closer to management in their
pay rate proposals. Keep in mind all other non-contract
employees continue to enjoy the profit-sharing program and did
not have to give up pay to get it.
Management continues to encumber the profit-sharing program
as a contingency to accept a preferential bidding system (PBS).
The Association remains opposed to any PBS system in this
contract. Remember how long it took us to negotiate Section 13
Scheduling? We spent a year and a half negotiating a new
Section 13, many of the areas that we negotiated to improve and
spent bargaining capital to obtain would simply go away under
PBS. Examples would be the improvements to the integration
system, line construction guidelines, and vacation bidding. We
are not interested in renegotiating these issues or giving up the
value we have in the gains we have made.
We received two proposals simultaneously, “Option 1 and
Option 2,” from management last night. Management’s Option
one proposal had better pay rates, little scope protection and nil
retro-pay. Option two had little pay rates, some scope and
slightly more retro-pay. Neither option alone was adequate to
embrace. In fact, both options combined were inadequate and
fell well short of the pilots needs in scope, pay rates, retro pay
and duty rigs.
In the morning, the Association countered comprehensive full
language proposals on all the remaining open issues. In result,
we are close to tentative agreements in Section 18 Instructor
Pilots, Section 27 Retirement, Section 28 Insurance, and Section
30 Duration. These Sections are pending final review for
typographical errors.
We remain committed to obtaining a fair agreement that offers:
job protection with minimized whip-saw threats, raises that are
commensurate with industry standards and future COLA’s, each
year. The rates we have proposed would do just that and still
allow the Company to remain extremely profitable and
competitive within the industry.
Here’s a recap of the remaining open issues:
Scope: Fragmentation, this provision dictates how aircraft can
potentially be transferred between airlines and what job
protections will be in place for ASA pilots in the event of one or
more aircraft transfer(s). We appear close in concept on some of the issues here; but, management’s proposals fall short of our
needs.
Pay rates: Lately, pay rates are all over the board in
management’s proposals. This may be intentional on their part
to try and confuse the pilots at ASA (in their updates.) At a
glance the CR2 captain rates may look ok in one proposal, but
the rest of their proposals are lacking substance. Management’s
proposals also fall short of our long standing requirement to
compensate our first officers at 60% of the Captain’s rate.
The CR7 pay rate proposals are either nothing for the duration in
option two proposal; and, 1% on DOS and 1% DOS+24 months
in option one. One thing to consider for each 1% raise on the
CR7 equates to only $264,000 per year in additional costs for
the Company. As Company profits continue to soar, they want
your salary to remain stagnant.
Profit Sharing: The Association agreed to accept the Company’s
profit sharing program to move closer to management in their
pay rate proposals. Keep in mind all other non-contract
employees continue to enjoy the profit-sharing program and did
not have to give up pay to get it.
Management continues to encumber the profit-sharing program
as a contingency to accept a preferential bidding system (PBS).
The Association remains opposed to any PBS system in this
contract. Remember how long it took us to negotiate Section 13
Scheduling? We spent a year and a half negotiating a new
Section 13, many of the areas that we negotiated to improve and
spent bargaining capital to obtain would simply go away under
PBS. Examples would be the improvements to the integration
system, line construction guidelines, and vacation bidding. We
are not interested in renegotiating these issues or giving up the
value we have in the gains we have made.
Duty Rigs: The dispute in this issue is the application of the duty
rig. Management has various offers on the table all of which
have glaring holes in their application. The Association’s
proposal is a simple industry standard 1 hour pay for 2 hours of
duty based on actual duty and a min day of 3 hours 45 minutes.
Retro pay: The parties remain millions apart on what it should
be. The methodology of how to compute retro pay also remains
in dispute. When the Association’s economist uses
management’s methodology, we still come up with much higher
numbers than management does.
It became apparent to the Association early in this session that
management came to this session only willing to reach an
agreement under their terms, not a mutual agreement. The
Association’s proposals are more than reasonable and easily
affordable by the Company.
We will explain the issues and
positions of both parties in further detail in a future update.
In the late evening the mediators informed both parties that we
will meet with the National Mediation Board member(s) Thursday
morning at the NMB office to discuss our case. We will report to
you after the meeting.
rig. Management has various offers on the table all of which
have glaring holes in their application. The Association’s
proposal is a simple industry standard 1 hour pay for 2 hours of
duty based on actual duty and a min day of 3 hours 45 minutes.
Retro pay: The parties remain millions apart on what it should
be. The methodology of how to compute retro pay also remains
in dispute. When the Association’s economist uses
management’s methodology, we still come up with much higher
numbers than management does.
It became apparent to the Association early in this session that
management came to this session only willing to reach an
agreement under their terms, not a mutual agreement. The
Association’s proposals are more than reasonable and easily
affordable by the Company.
We will explain the issues and
positions of both parties in further detail in a future update.
In the late evening the mediators informed both parties that we
will meet with the National Mediation Board member(s) Thursday
morning at the NMB office to discuss our case. We will report to
you after the meeting.
Last edited:
79%N1
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- Nov 19, 2002
- Posts
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Hmmm. Sounds interesting. Management feels like they have made a fair offer and are trying to turn up the heat. ALPA seems to feel it is still inadequate. The sad thing is it is down to only about three things now, but I stand by my prediction. This will come and go with no end in sight.
Last edited:
Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
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Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
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Airboss
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After talking to our union reps, it sounds like (as usual) the company is playing with themselves. Their offer was due at 1 pm today and didn't pass it along until 3pm. They didn't move much, and ALPA says they are not going to move much more either. We all know the profit margin of Skywest. Sounds like the shots are being called in SGU.
Airboss
Well-known member
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After talking to other pilots....
what if we had no pens in the cockpit? It
s not a required item in the FOM.
How will captains sign the release? How will FO's fill out the Load Manifest?
My personal (non ALPA affiliated) opinion is stop bringing your personal pens to work.
Call ops, tell them there are no pens in the airplane and cannot fill out the paperwork.
This will get real interesting quick!
what if we had no pens in the cockpit? It
s not a required item in the FOM.
How will captains sign the release? How will FO's fill out the Load Manifest?
My personal (non ALPA affiliated) opinion is stop bringing your personal pens to work.
Call ops, tell them there are no pens in the airplane and cannot fill out the paperwork.
This will get real interesting quick!
79%N1
Well-known member
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- Nov 19, 2002
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Then why in the hell are we (both sides) even bothering to show up and continue this absolute farce of a charade???
ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!
IFLYASA
Well-known member
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- Nov 27, 2001
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I sadly admit I watched Miss Teen S.C. quote this on the Miss Teen USA pagent. Now that was a boring overnight...
jstyle13
Reserve for life!
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- Oct 16, 2002
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Lumburgh says:
yyyyyeeeaaaaa. im gonna have to go ahead and.... disagree with you there.............
She and the others on there are what I like to call:
BDH: Brain Dead Hottie
What a turn off.
Medeco
The NMB is appointed by the president. They are pro-buisness. If you think there will be a release you are poorly informed on labor issues.
Nothing will come of this session. I'm not in management but I will give them a tip of the hat. They have absolutely routed labor. Well done gentleman.
Nothing will come of this session. I'm not in management but I will give them a tip of the hat. They have absolutely routed labor. Well done gentleman.
OHHHHH, is that how it works?
Poorly informed, I will give you that, in the sense that many people in this fight are poorly informed due to their lack of interest.
I am not convinced either way as to which way things will go, but I hardly believe we should throw in the towel because the cards are stacked against us.
And last, I would never disrespect our company "leaders" in a one on one coversation, but I would never call them gentlement either.
Just as you and others are so ready to say "I told yah so" with no release, I too cannot wait for the day that I can say, "who was it that said we were'nt getting released?"
I'm not saying it will, I'm just holding on to what will be best for our cause.
Medeco
The only labor I'll be doing this weekend is driving to the beach and pouring adult beverages.
601Pilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2001
- Posts
- 338
Yep, operation FASA starts Friday evening if no TA is reached. Ask your fellow pilot if you have not been informed. Let the fun begin and I will apologize in advance if you actually bought a ticket for this weekend.
Maybe a few flights will make it; I'm sure Joey will have his phone on when they need him!
Richard Gozinya
Vikings Fan
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2006
- Posts
- 478
Here is the answer. If the status quo is productive, in a completely demonized and depressed industry, then its DFW(Don't fvck with) it!
Lets say I am cheating on my girlfriend, not really, and she catches me numerous times. Each time she threatens to dump me. I swear to change, but never do. I keep cheatin', and getting caught. Nothing ever changes. All that is happening is that I am having the time of my life, with no down side.
So, why should anybody that is screwing everyone, making a sh1t pot full of money, and not having to change(when they say they have to) change anything. Here is the answer.
How much can you change in 5 years?
Dick Gozinya
www.
SoCo Guy
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- Mar 18, 2006
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DING DING DING!
BL, SH and CT don't think that history can repeat itself from 1998. They do not think that the pilots have the will to do what is needed at this time to finish the contract. They laugh and joke about it.
After seeing the Company's a and b proposal .....My crystal ball say that the MNB will meet with both sides. Neither side is going to give and so the NMB will make a choice to offer and neither side will except the offer so it's time to move on with the process. I would advise you to get your house in order.
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