ASA 28-31 Aug contract neg updates?

[JoeMerchant]

You sound scared. Are you a jellyfish?

No Papa Woody, he isn't a jellyfish.... he has seen this show before when he was at Alleghany. Alleghany had the best contract in the regional industry. They had Dash 8 pilots making 6 figures with a retirement plan. They had a tough and unified pilot group. They were replaced by cheaper ALPA pilots.

Not a "jellyfish"..... just someone who has "been there and done that"...

 

[JoeMerchant]

"At a glance both Management proposals are lacking in adequate scope protections, pay rates, retro pay,and duty rigs."​

This about sums it up folks. This is the day 1 summary, as will be day 4. Management is just showing up because they have to. They have no desire to settle. ​

We are failing as a pilot group to take control of the situation. Over my last 4 day, at least half of my flights have been delayed due to legitimate maintenance writeups. If we all did this, 50% of our flights would be late. Bryan would sh*t an airworthy titanium brick.​

Look at what happened in 98 to get the contract settled. It's no different here.​

Please step up to the plate!!​

This isn't '98 in so many ways.....

The only similarity is that we won't get a release from the NMB.... but then some of us have been saying that for some time.....

Why is the MEC surprised that we haven't been released?

 

[Medeco]

Yeah we know your feelings on the issue Merchant.

Mechant are you willing to keep yourself in the current contract once our new one is ratified with all the new QOL improvements? And turn down the signing bonus/Retro pay by donating it to the guys who worked to get the new contract?

Off course not.

Medeco

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yeah we know your feelings on the issue Merchant.

Mechant are you willing to keep yourself in the current contract once our new one is ratified with all the new QOL improvements? And turn down the signing bonus/Retro pay by donating it to the guys who worked to get the new contract?

Off course not.

Medeco

My first concern is not being replaced by Skywest or any other DCI carrier....

That being said, the improvements you are talking about are a moot point if you never actually get a new contract. When a new contract is achieved, it will look very similar to what is currently on the table.... The longer we drag this out, the longer before those improvements take place......

 

[COOPERVANE]

labor day weekend

 

[Medeco]

My first concern is not being replaced by Skywest or any other DCI carrier....

That being said, the improvements you are talking about are a moot point if you never actually get a new contract. When a new contract is achieved, it will look very similar to what is currently on the table.... The longer we drag this out, the longer before those improvements take place......

Your points that you repeatedly make like a broken record, are all moot.

You dodged the question.

We all agree that being replaced is a huge concern. Obviously, our CNC does too based on the updates we have recieved over the last few months. But according to you we should give up the farm to get scope.

Medeco

 

[BIGGOAT]

My question is whether you can get solid scope, good raises, retro pay, duty rigs, and qol/sced etc in the same contract. Scope cost Mesa and AE...

Goat

 

[Medeco]

I dont know the answer 100% like mister merchant claims to.

But, in principle, we must try to achieve the best we can for our pilot group.

One thing for sure is the ASA pilot group has not rolled over as of yet and this has added to the timeline of the contract neg.

I personally think, that ASA/Skywest Inc. and Mother Delta have had a plan from the beginning of the sale of ASA. It may be a fluid ever evolving plan, but something is going on here.

Dr. Jerry AtKIN, hasnt shown his face to this pilot group for more than a year, in terms of a town hall meeting or crew room chat. Thats speaks loudly to me.

Dr. Jerry is gambling, with us and the ALPA drive at Skywest and hoping he can play us against each other as he is doing and has done.

If the Skywest MEN/Women will step up and sign on, we can all have the upper hand and hold out for what is best for everyone.

No doubt its very difficult to convince enough people in todays, instant gratification mentality, that patience in this fight is worth it.

Medeco

 

[av8er2]

Not looking good.

 

[goahead]

Nope not going to hapen yet again, probably ever, should just get used to this sh_it every three to four months.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Same ********************, different day.

 

[Future Furlough]

1. We didn't give up anything after 9/11.

Sure you did. You're flying on a 10 year old contract.

I'm not going to be the one who "takes it back" in one contract...

2. The mainline boys didn't stand so strong on their own contracts, so don't use mine to make up for their mistakes.

So if the new contract doesn't improve on the old one, won't you have given up something?

 

[79%N1]

What I don't understand is this....Does the company not have to show the mediator that they are willing to negotiate in good faith and move from their prior positions for the NMB to even schedule more dates? Or, can they just decide they will hold their ground in hopes we cave and the NMB signs off on that tactic? If so, what a waste of four more days this is going to be!

 

[Medeco]

79%N1

I'd say yes in theory that is the way it should be played out. The last few sessions have been different in that the mediator has put a gag on the two sides in terms of details, allowing each side to put forth "what if's" with out fear of the other putting out a blast email.

Combine that, with this 4 day session which I cannot remember having in quite a while, and the fact that last session went into the wee hours of the night and we seem to be pretty close.

4 days gives the company enough time to get the yes/no back from Dr. ATKIN and cronies.

And, if nothing has come to a TA after this session I'm betting the mediator starts the clock.

We are now past the summer flying schedule and a distruption in service would have less impact on commerce.

I heard straight form the mouth of a CNC member that after the last session, "Only good things came from that meeting session", when they went in assuming it would be the same ol crap of meaningless proposals.

Medeco

 

[scarlet]

THERE WILL BE NO RELEASE !!! NO STARTING THE CLOCK!!! say with me....

Ok now that we have that clear in our heads, lets put something in ASA mgt heads and Delta for that matter.

Happy Labor Day!!

Atl controllers/ DL pilots complaining ASA is taxiing to slow ?? STAY SAFE !!!

 

[Sinca3]

ASA pilots.....I think it is time you start questioning the negotiators on BOTH sides of the table.
I just read the companies version of an update. On it they talk about how good the new TA´d scheduling section is!! It would be great but for one word that they added that makes all the differences.
They state the long call short call notification time starts from 1st "ATTEMPTED" call to the pilot.
Since when did Attempted mean we were notified of anything. The current contract states notification as the first verbal communication between the scheduler adn the pilot.....NOT ATTEMPTED contact.
Little things like this are what need to be addressed!!

 

[79%N1]

Cold, harsh reality...

This charade will end like all the others! Absolutely nothing will be accomplished in these four days. The company does not want to, and does not have to give an inch and complete this deal. The Union has no power to change that because the NMB is pro-management and will not let us use our only tool - a release. Expect this to continue for the foreseeable future. Skywest does not want to let us complete the deal while their pilots are considering unionizing. Delta wants it to drag out as long as possible so they can continue to dilute ASA in our one and only hub, ATL. Why else would they bring in Pinnacle, Mesa, Republic and Skywest into Atlanta while ASA stagnates? The longer the contract takes, the more we are diluted and the less leverage we have. Double-edged sword! And the sad thing, it doesnt really matter how slow we taxi or how much we write up. These guys are having their way with us, all with the blessing of the NMB. My only question is why did they bother to waste four days of sessions when they darn well know the outcome? It was so deflating to see the email last night that management basically had not improved their offer one bit! Still lacking in pay, rigs, scope and retirement. Very disappointing, but very unlikely to be resolved.

 

[AV8700]

ASA pilots.....I think it is time you start questioning the negotiators on BOTH sides of the table.
I just read the companies version of an update. On it they talk about how good the new TA´d scheduling section is!! It would be great but for one word that they added that makes all the differences.
They state the long call short call notification time starts from 1st "ATTEMPTED" call to the pilot.
Since when did Attempted mean we were notified of anything. The current contract states notification as the first verbal communication between the scheduler adn the pilot.....NOT ATTEMPTED contact.
Little things like this are what need to be addressed!!

I noticed that also! This is one of the reasons negotiations have taken a long time, one word changes everything. When and if a TA ever happens
better pay close attention to the fine print.

 

[Medeco]

I noticed that big bulging word too.
A step backward no doubt.

Guys, your letting the company have their way with you. Don't start waving the white flag.

Stand Strong

Medeco

 

[jegermeister]

You sound scared. Are you a jellyfish?

Below me.

Go ahead, say it out loud. If you still don't get it, ask around.