Are you a left-wing wacko?

[UpNDownGuy]

It's in the fine print...

Here are some of the details:


A paper copy of ALPA's new LM-2 report would be more than 30,000 pages long.


Does this seem like a good idea to you? Do you imagine that there are any legitimate reasons why a union would need to submit over 30,000 pages of information to the governemnt? Who do you think will read the 30,000 + pages, let alone analyze them in a meaningful manner? ALPA is not a large union compared to many in this country. You would need a whole new branch of government just to LOOK at this much information.


Or, here is an alternative idea. Let's see if it fits the situation:

AFL-CIO President John Sweeny claimed that the
implementation of new union reporting rules "is more evidence
of the Administration's blind determination to weaken
workers' organizations and is clearly political payback for the
workers' overtime pay win [October 2] in the House.


Hmmnnn, let's think about it. A completely unnecessary and useless requirement that is imposed ONLY on labor unions, and is multitudes more costly than the accounting requirement of any company in the US. Sweeny may just be on to something...


How about the method by which this requirement came to be?


The Office of Management and Budget received the final rule
and had at least 90 days to review it to ensure that the changes
do not cause any unnecessary burdens or costs. OMB is
required by law to conduct such reviews of newly proposed
governmental rules and regulations before they are
implemented. "Isn't it ironic," Capt. Woerth said, "that the
same OMB that has been reviewing for several years the
proposed flight-time and duty-time rules and now opposes that
NPRM because it would increase costs for airlines has taken 24
hours to review the new LM-2 rule before passing it on without
a single change or comment."


A regulation that would require unions to submit over 30,000+ pages of information. They looked at it for 24 hours, and decided it was perfect. Sound like the fix was in maybe?


I could go on and on about this, but what's the point? There is no possible legitimate reason for this regulation. It was "get the unions", pure and simple. Your President at his finest.

 

[siucavflight]

Typhoon,
You smell bad.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Typhoon, you smell bad.

Well, I did just change my kid's diaper...

 

[TonyC]

Wow, in that long tirade by ALPA not one place did they mention what changes the requirements made.

Read a bit more carefully...

Capt. Woerth declared, "ALPA's current governmental financial reporting requirements are far more detailed than those required of corporations; for example, ALPA's LM-2 is currently about 120 pages long. Our LM-2 reports are for union members what annual reports are for shareholders. How many shareholder reports do you receive that are more than 30 pages long, including numerous photographs and illustrations, a short balance sheet, and a few words of wisdom from the CEO?"
(emphasis added)

Even current requirements are arguably more onerous than the requirements on a large corporation. And if that ain't bad enough...

The new LM-2 report "must be filed only in an electronic format-by law," Capt. Woerth observed. "Why? A paper copy of ALPA's new LM-2 report would be more than 30,000 pages long. No corporation could or would tolerate this sort of harassment. Enron and Global Crossing certainly did not have to file 30,000 pages of financial data on their organizations. Such reporting requirements would put many small businesses and some large ones into bankruptcy.
(emphasis added)

Sounds like just the opposite of the Paperwork Reduction Act you read about everytime you file your 1040.

 

[cherokee]

Ummm, Ok....again, what are the specifics of what has changed? Yes I read that it would be really long, what exactly has changed from what was required below? What new information are they required to report?Since there are 10's of thousands of members I'm not sure it's too excessive. As far as weakening unions I still have not heard anything that comes close to this. IF you have the info please post but a little more paperwork, while maybe tedious, in no way weakens unions, unless you can give me an example.

 

[TonyC]

IF you have the info please post but a little more paperwork, while maybe tedious, in no way weakens unions, unless you can give me an example.

No, I have no specifics about what items must be reported in what format. Is that what you're looking for, so you can apply your accounting expertise to the question and determine if ALPA has a valid complaint?

120 pages versus 30,000 pages. That's 250 times more pages. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's an increase of 24,900 PER CENT. The OMB took 24 hours to review 35,000 comments before ruling in favor of this rule. "Little more paperwork"? Amazing.

ALPA will have to hire a large staff and devote a healthy chunk of cash JUST to produce this report, and no benefit will be realized. That's why it qualifies as harassment.

Now, try putting the shoes on your feet for a minute. How long did it take for you to complete your 1040 last spring? Do you think it would be fair for the IRS to reformat the 1040 so that you had to complete 500 pages, instead of 2? Do you think it would be fair to ask you to pay H&R Block $12,500 instead of $50? You can bet that would weaken my spending power, or rob me of time, or both.

If you can't see a problem with this, I can guess your overall view towards trade unions in general.

 

[Chunk]

Typhoon,
You smell bad.

Dude....quoting Top Gun? Here ya go!

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=222616#post222616

 

[WrightAvia]

Since they raided the Social Security "Locked Box", I'm going to have to change my own diaper....so I got that going for me....which is nice.

So much for SOCIALISM in America.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Dude....quoting Top Gun?

No...that would've been "Slider...[sniff]...you stink."

I think I've offended siu in some way.

(By the way, what the heck does "siu-cav-flight" mean, anyway?)

 

[Chunk]

WrightAvia,

I don't know if you know it, but Leon there in your avatar is a HUGE star in Japan. Icon status, even.

 

[WrightAvia]

"Leon" is the original European name of the movie "The Professional", staring Jean Reno.

There may be another "Leon" you're thinking of? Or the Japanese are enamored with Jean Reno in general.

His movie "Wasabi", was quite funny and featured Japan as a back drop...

 

[siucavflight]

Typhoon,
You have not offended me.
SIUCAVFLIGHT- Southern Illinois University Carbondale, Aviation Flight major.

 

[cherokee]

No, I have no specifics about what items must be reported in what format. Is that what you're looking for, so you can apply your accounting expertise to the question and determine if ALPA has a valid complaint?

Close, but not quite. I am not about to say this is a horrible thing until you give me some details. You say that there will be 'no benefit realized.' You have no idea if this is actually true if you don't know the subject matter. No I am not an accountant but I generally like to have all the facts I can about an issue before I cast judgement. Also, the OMB is a non-partison governmental organization that has essentially the same employees year after year, remember this is the same OMB that predicted a record budget deficit, so they are obvoiusly not covering for the President. Furthermore, they don't have to necessarliy review 30,000 pages in 24 hours to approve a change. Perhaps they change was something like they need a report on all members in regard to something like pay, benefits, etc. This is something that would take a lot of pages because there are 10's of thousands of members. But the original idea behind those pages is to get X and Y info on union members. That is what they would have to decide in 24 hours, not necessarily sifting through 30,000 pages of stuff. Probably most of this stuff would be in a database anyway in ALPA including relevent member info. OMB approval only has to be of the idea, sifting the documents comes later. I have no idea what the changes are, and neither do you. I would suggest researching the issue further before getting your heart rate up too high. There just may be a good reason for the changes.

 

[cherokee]

Well, here we go, here is a link to the subject at hand and guess what, the measure is an attempt for the MEMBERS of the union to know what the leaders of their union are doing with their dues money. They are trying to enforce regulations that allow unions to spend money on such things as collective bargaining, not politics. I know if I were a member of a union, I wouldn't want my money going to Howard Dean. A union is supposed to represent the membership and therefore shouldn't spend everyone's money on the unions political agenda. Seems reasonable to me. Here is the link...
http://www.nlpc.org/olap/030714lm.html

 

[Typhoon1244]

SIUCAVFLIGHT- Southern Illinois University Carbondale, Aviation Flight major.

Ah, that explains much. Thanks.

 

[TonyC]

Furthermore, they [the OMB] don't have to necessarliy review 30,000 pages in 24 hours to approve a change. Perhaps they change was something like they need a report on all members in regard to something like pay, benefits, etc. This is something that would take a lot of pages because there are 10's of thousands of members. But the original idea behind those pages is to get X and Y info on union members. That is what they would have to decide in 24 hours, not necessarily sifting through 30,000 pages of stuff.

Apparently you have difficulty with numbers, as it has been stated several times that the OMB had 35,000 comments to review, not 30,000 pages of Data X and Y about 10's of thousands of members, and only one little, bitty idea to agree with.

I have no idea what the changes are,

That's too bad for you, but it doesn't seem to keep you from sitting on the sideline and throwing stones, does it? I don't know specifics, but I DO know enough of the general terms that ALPA has taken the position that the administrative costs will be onerous, and the information presented in the new format will be of no more use than the present report. There's a lot of things I don't know all the specifics about, and that's one of the beauties of a representative democracy. I get to choose others who make it their job to deal with the details and apply common sense to make proper judgments. When ALPA tells me that it will cost more in dues money to track every paperclip, I tend to agree.

the measure is an attempt for the MEMBERS of the union to know what the leaders of their union are doing with their dues money. They are trying to enforce regulations that allow unions to spend money on such things as collective bargaining, not politics.

That could be no further from the truth. This is an attempt by the GOVERNMENT to tell PEOPLE what they need. Inasmuch as dues money and PAC money are already seperate, the issue is nothing more than a red herring. I'm not worried that my dues money is being spent on paperclips that might somehow find their way into an unsavory politician's hands. That's the type of reporting that's being sought. Itemize every penny of expenditures so that we can make sure that dues money doesn't go towards political causes. Gimme a break.

Interestingly, your voice has just proven the whole point of the legislation. If you oppose trade unions, you favor this onerous legislation.

Now that we've established that, there's not much of a point in continuing this discussion, is there?

 

[Chunk]

That's the guy...I didn't know his name. It's the dude from the 'professional'. Him and Bruce Willis are all over Japanese commercials and billboards.

 

[cherokee]

I'm not worried that my dues money is being spent on paperclips that might somehow find their way into an unsavory politician's hands. That's the type of reporting that's being sought. Itemize every penny of expenditures so that we can make sure that dues money doesn't go towards political causes. Gimme a break.

Yes I do would want to know where my dues money is going if I'm a union member. Obviously you are not concerned that rules are followed because the money in question goes to campaigns of the politicians you like. Think for a second of the union member who prefers Republicans. Do you think it's fair that 100% of his money and of those like minded members goes to liberals and democrats? No way should a union be able to use my dues for political purposes I disagree with.

 

[WrightAvia]

That's the guy...I didn't know his name. It's the dude from the 'professional'. Him and Bruce Willis are all over Japanese commercials and billboards

I can see why the Japs love him. They love everything about American and European culture.

He did a good job in "Ronin", "The professional" and "Wasabi".

I could totally see Jean Reno, Robert DeNero and Christopher Walken, (and/or Rusell Crowe) doing a remake of the movie "wild geese". I just got done watching the first 1/3 of the "italian job" and wound up returning the movie without seeing the whole thing because it lacked substance. Techno is great...but it never supercedes a good plot with dialogue.

 

[TonyC]

Obviously you are not concerned that rules are followed because the money in question goes to campaigns of the politicians you like. Think for a second of the union member who prefers Republicans. Do you think it's fair that 100% of his money and of those like minded members goes to liberals and democrats?

You've now taken a huge leap from something about which you know very little into something about which you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

You might be surprised how many professional pilots, upstanding, dues-paying labor union members, are conservative and vote predominantly Republican. If you had any clue about what Unions are for, and what protections they provide, you might be able to see that. It's rather obvious, though, that you aren't interested in seeing things objectively, as you feigned to do in earlier posts. You give conservatives a bad name.

To imply that every penny of dues money is funneled directly to "liberals and democrats" (isn't that redundant?) is ludicrous. Go find someone else to slander, thanks.