APA Pilots Reject TA

[xjhawk]

yeah my MEC told half truths, lied with statistics, and made assurances that had no definitive proof that our merger would be better for all involved. "Yeah I know you are not getting anything in this TA, but in the seniority list integration and future growth you will be a lot better off". In the end, only our most senior faired well and many of us had pilots from the other ALPA carriers with half our longevity become senior to us. Now their airlines are losing all their aircraft and have my seniority. I am sure glad ALPA helped me out on my career.

 

[caseyd]

yeah my MEC told half truths, lied with statistics, and made assurances that had no definitive proof that our merger would be better for all involved. "Yeah I know you are not getting anything in this TA, but in the seniority list integration and future growth you will be a lot better off". In the end, only our most senior faired well and many of us had pilots from the other ALPA carriers with half our longevity become senior to us. Now their airlines are losing all their aircraft and have my seniority. I am sure glad ALPA helped me out on my career.

You can't start a rant with "my mec..." and finish with a slap at ALPA. Because "my mec" are pilots you a) elected or b) tolerate. ALPA is a democracy (just like APA, SWAPA and USAPA for that matter.) if you were asleep at the switch during elections or just swooned at the simple solutions and rhetoric of the winners then ranting about "ALPA" is disingenuous
.

 

[ultrarunner]

If AA pilots don't think there is a better deal then maybe someone can explain their vote cause I don't understand.

If you think the BK court won't grant AA's request to poke the pilots up the poop-shoot well it's probably best to stand-by and watch. I hope you're right but...

I don't know what you're talking about regarding ALPA.

The BK judge might just do that...

Re: my ALPA comment, if it HAD been an ALPA group, the TA would likely have passed, as ALPA typically votes in concessionary contracts on the first try....

 

[ultrarunner]

You can't start a rant with "my mec..." and finish with a slap at ALPA. Because "my mec" are pilots you a) elected or b) tolerate. ALPA is a democracy (just like APA, SWAPA and USAPA for that matter.) if you were asleep at the switch during elections or just swooned at the simple solutions and rhetoric of the winners then ranting about "ALPA" is disingenuous
.

What I meant Casey is IMHO, the "my mec chant" when used with ALPA is BS.

Alpa Mec's do what they are told my national, as much as an ALPA pilot doesn'twant to believe that, again, IMHO.

And in the case of this thread, it's why I believe the TA was rejected....no big-daddy stroking the troops.

 

[Whine Lover]

Good on you pilots of American Airlines.

To my knowledge, you are the FIRST pilot group in history to be placed in this position ( 1113c scenario ) who have not caved.

Go for it and Godspeed.


YKMKR

 

[caseyd]

What I meant Casey is IMHO, the "my mec chant" when used with ALPA is BS.

Alpa Mec's do what they are told my national, as much as an ALPA pilot doesn'twant to believe that, again, IMHO.

And in the case of this thread, it's why I believe the TA was rejected....no big-daddy stroking the troops.

Ultra,
You are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone. In a crew room full of them I cherish the "informed" opinion. And I don't mean to suggest yours is not but I've been there. Got the tee shirt. Sport the scars and on and on. ALPA advisors excused themselves from end game negotiation at LCC because their advice had been ignored for the year leading up to LOA93. ALPA professional services unit which had rendered services to APA excused themselves months ago for the same reason. That is, if you're gonna totally ignore the rational advice of lawyers, bankers and negotiators who have been here before what's the point? The danger, more often then not is "my MEC" members just believe they know better. And often, not always, their members suffer.

Wishing AA pilots the best...

 

[Dizel8]

Maybe no pilot group has but plenty of unions have felt the backhand of the courts against their tender cheek. Pilots have typically cut a deal before the 1113 petition is heard.....better a devil you know.

Agreeing to allow a robber to take your wallet makes you feel less victimized?

The APA pilots stood tall and said "NO", even if they get screwed in the courts, they did absolutely awesome in my view and they most certainly deserve our respect!

 

[caseyd]

Agreeing to allow a robber to take your wallet makes you feel less victimized?

The APA pilots stood tall and said "NO", even if they get screwed in the courts, they did absolutely awesome in my view and they most certainly deserve our respect!

Dizel,

This thread has turned on the wisdom of AA pilots choice, not their courage. Not their unity, not their righteousness but the wisdom of it all. These choices are ALWAYS hard. If threatened by a robber with a gun who wanted wallet, watch and wife I would be thrilled to negotiate the security of one or more. No comment as to priorities ;-). That for each man to decide. Negotiating a better deal does not make you a sissy. It makes you smart. Just taking the wooping is stupid.

 

[Whine Lover]

Beat a Man long enough, he loses hope.

Beat him longer, he get's angry.

Beat him again, he doesn't care anymore and throws caution to the Wind.

Try to beat him ONE MORE TIME, he tears your heart out, kills your Family with his bare hands, and burns down the Village... saving himself and his loved ones.

GOOD LUCK Airline Management from hereon in....Precedent has been set.


" Mine eyes have seen the Glory of The Coming of The Lord...."

Burn...Burn, Baby, BURN.




LOVE,



YKW

 

[OurMoney1]

There will be blood my friends.
There will be blood.
Stand-bye.....

 

[St. Nic]

ALPO never would have done this or allowed this. Independent unions are the future. ALPO isn't going to be around much longer. Good job APA

 

[aeolian]

ALPO never would have done this or allowed this. Independent unions are the future. ALPO isn't going to be around much longer. Good job APA

Classic emotional response identified earlier as dangerous. I suspect St. Nic is gonna be choking on Nic. And it will be fun to watch.

Gold Standard... You guys are hilarious.

 

[Fliteidol]

Whats going on around here??????? I guess this one will be closed soon too!

 

[PCL_128]

BTW no union has gone through s.1113 before. So, this is totally untested territory. Good luck.

Wrong. There is case law on this. Read up on the Northwest flight attendants case. Rulings were made on virtually every important area that had previously been untested.

 

[aa73]

Wrong. There is case law on this. Read up on the Northwest flight attendants case. Rulings were made on virtually every important area that had previously been untested.

The F/A group is no major airline pilot group. They don't control the throttles, the on time performance, maintenance issues, etc. And the judge knows that. Two totally different scenarios, and I don't expect the judge to follow that mold.

To those of you who don't understand why we voted No, here is a quick summary: The Pilots of AA have chosen to not give in to a concessionary contract. If it is forced on us, at least we will die standing on our feet rather than stay living on our knees.

Thanks for all the support.