APA Pilots polled. No to age 60.

[GuppyWN]

At least there is SOME resisntence now. Blakely will have an opposing voice of over 12,000 pilots from "the worlds largest airline." And by a large margin. That and the old ALPA vote still show's 56% of them are opposed to change. That leaves SWA (groan) as the loan voice of the major airlines.

Gup

 

[PCL_128]

Add that to the historic benchmarks of the profession List:
1)B-scale
2)Scope relief for Small jet operators (Eagle)
3) Staple is past practice for ALL future airline acquisitions
4) The only reason other airlines exist is because APA pilots cant do
everything....yet
5)If the APA is the high water mark of unionism then this profession
isn't dead its mummified.

This list is just scratching the surface. The APA has done more to destroy the leverage of this profession than you can possibly imagine. The court rulings as a result of the illegal sick-out were enough to decimate RLA labor law. We'll be trying to recover from those rulings for decades to come.

 

[rtmcfi]

This list is just scratching the surface. The APA has done more to destroy the leverage of this profession than you can possibly imagine. The court rulings as a result of the illegal sick-out were enough to decimate RLA labor law. We'll be trying to recover from those rulings for decades to come.

With ALPA bending over for the geezers, we will be trying to recover for decades from the 60-65 rule change. Praters moves regarding the age change are indefensible. Perhaps the APA should start guaging current ALPA represented pilots to see if they would entertain the thought of dropping ALPA in favor of the APA. There are a bunch of folks disatisfied with the Woerth era ALPA concessions. Praters Era is off to a rough start with his pandering to the almost AARP crowd. I am sure the APA could find some supporters....

 

[AAflyer]

This list is just scratching the surface. The APA has done more to destroy the leverage of this profession than you can possibly imagine. The court rulings as a result of the illegal sick-out were enough to decimate RLA labor law. We'll be trying to recover from those rulings for decades to come.

Coming from you that is something else....

AAflyer

Out of curiosity do you know the events of the sick out? When and why the TRO was filed? Just curios, because your post smells of a spattering of info that anyone could pick up at bar, however it lacks anything with meat.

Do me a favor and look into your own house before you throw rocks.

What about the court rulings revolving around Delta not picking up overtime, talk about destroying leverage.

 

[j41driver]

What does the NPA think

Our "leadership" is for changing it to 65. As far as the AirTran pilot group...I don't know and neither does the NPA because they haven't polled anyone. At least not in the last 2 - 3 years...and we've hired almost half of the current pilot group in that time. WTF??

 

[AAflyer]

Our "leadership" is for changing it to 65. As far as the AirTran pilot group...I don't know and neither does the NPA because they haven't polled anyone. At least not in the last 2 - 3 years...and we've hired almost half of the current pilot group in that time. WTF??

Thanks, good to know.

AAflyer

 

[Flopgut]

This list is just scratching the surface. The APA has done more to destroy the leverage of this profession than you can possibly imagine. The court rulings as a result of the illegal sick-out were enough to decimate RLA labor law. We'll be trying to recover from those rulings for decades to come.

Sorry, but this makes zero sense. It's incredibly ironic that you're assailing APA over ALPA (regarding detriment to the RLA) on a thread about CAL!? ALPA did not handle Lorenzo well; AND: It would take APA another 100 years to screw up this profession worse than ALPA. It pains me to say it, I wish ALPA was better, but if UAL had bought TWA, no TWA pilots would be flying for them. And ALPA would have let it go without a peep!

The sick out was ballsy. And it might have worked if APA was AFL-CIO. APA is a better union than than ALPA in the last 7 years IMHO.

 

[Freight Dog]

Gents... you gotta take what PCL128 says with a grain of salt.

He seems like a nice guy, but he's genuinely infatuated with ALPA, and you can't really reason with an individual like that.

 

[PCL_128]

He seems like a nice guy, but he's genuinely infatuated with ALPA, and you can't really reason with an individual like that.

Infatuated? Hardly. ALPA has many problems. No doubt about that. The difference is that I work within the system and will hopefully be able to affect change within the organization eventually. Certain people on this board would rather complain and whine than volunteer their time and work to make things better.

I actually agree with the APA pilots and I'm glad that such an overwhelming majority of them disapprove of a rule change. I wish the ALPA polling had indicated such a massive level of support for the current rule. Unfortunately, no amount of polling is going to change this NPRM. The rule is going to change, and nothing the APA does will change that fact. I'm just glad that we have a representative (Captain Prater) on the ARC that will direct the rule change. The APA has no voice in this process. That would concern me if I was an APA member.

 

[Freight Dog]

Unfortunately, no amount of polling is going to change this NPRM. The rule is going to change, and nothing the APA does will change that fact. I'm just glad that we have a representative (Captain Prater) on the ARC that will direct the rule change.

Most people infatuated with something or someone generally don't recognize it...

 

[AA717driver]

Even as a former TWA pilot, I have vastly more respect for APA taking a stand against management than ALPA for rarely doing so. AA found a friendly judge in an anti-labor state to make a sham ruling. If ALPA wants to do some good, have them use their political power (ROTFL!) to get rid of the RLA and let us use the collective bargaining process as it was intended.

The events related in "Flying The Line" happened SO long ago that you can't even connect them to what is ALPA today.

APA has more than its share of blowhards and arrogant A-holes but its better than the "bend over and take it again" 'cocktail weenies' in Herndon. TC

 

[AAflyer]

Sorry, but this makes zero sense. It's incredibly ironic that you're assailing APA over ALPA (regarding detriment to the RLA) on a thread about CAL!? ALPA did not handle Lorenzo well; AND: It would take APA another 100 years to screw up this profession worse than ALPA. It pains me to say it, I wish ALPA was better, but if UAL had bought TWA, no TWA pilots would be flying for them. And ALPA would have let it go without a peep!

The sick out was ballsy. And it might have worked if APA was AFL-CIO. APA is a better union than than ALPA in the last 7 years IMHO.

Greetings Flopgut,

It was ballsy, and served it's purpose, however it was not APA that screwed things ups, it was pilots doing their own thing, taking actions into their own hands. President Lavoy at the time called all pilots back after "Judge Joe" ordered an end to the sick out. Many didn't do it, against the unions wishes. The union was slapped with the TRO. and the fine.

That could have happened anywhere.

Regards,

AAflyer

I enjoy your posts, you are one the few on here that has a level head.

 

[Flopgut]

Greetings AAflyer:

Oh yeah, I remember now! I recall an interviewer filming several AA pilots talking about the judges order, but still considering the sickout. You're right, could have happened anywhere.

Your union is firing on all cylinders and is primed to do well in the future. It's nice to watch your group work well under the constantly oppressive, unrelenting burden of knowing exactly what the he!! you're doing! That burden is all too uncommon in ALPA these days.

I enjoy your perspectives as well bud!

Regards,

Flopgut

 

[Occam's Razor]

Which sorta begs the question: "How many cylinders was ALPA hitting on when FDX got their new contract?"

I like what the APA is doing. I think ALPA should do the same thing, and told my reps exactly that at our last LEC meeting.

 

[turn&pull]

Swapa was polled just recently and those in favor of changing the age won the vote...I can't remember what the % was. I voted no.

 

[AAflyer]

Swapa was polled just recently and those in favor of changing the age won the vote...I can't remember what the % was. I voted no.

Good to know.

Thanks,

AA

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Which sorta begs the question: "How many cylinders was ALPA hitting on when FDX got their new contract?"

I like what the APA is doing. I think ALPA should do the same thing, and told my reps exactly that at our last LEC meeting.

Occam-

How many pilots where at the LEC meeting that were not committee members or elected officers? And what percentage is that of your LEC?

Also, what did your LEC reps say about ALPA not going along with the wishes of the membership on the Age60 issue?

 

[turn&pull]

The % was 59 for the change, 40 against.

The vote was actually whether SWAPA should continue spending resources in fighting for the change...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Swapa was polled just recently and those in favor of changing the age won the vote...I can't remember what the % was. I voted no.

I just looked over their website.... nothing of the kind.... got info to post??

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
January 30, 2007

SWAPA President, Capt. Carl Kuwitzky, said he is looking forward to the end of the Age 60 Rule and will work with Federal Aviation Administration officials to expedite the rule making process.
“I am pleased at the direction the FAA is going and we are looking forward to working with them on the Aviation Rulemaking Committee,” Capt. Kuwitzky said.​

Capt. Kuwitzky joined Southwest Company officials in expressing their support for the Jan. 30 announcement from FAA Administrator Marion Blakey about the FAA move to adopt the new international standard for age 65. The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) on Nov. 23, 2006 adopted a standard allowing one pilot to be age 60-65 so long as the other pilot is under age 60. The “over/under” age 65 rule has applied for foreign pilots coming into the U.S. since that time. Administrator Blakey said at the National Press Club luncheon that she is working on “global harmonization” and allowing U.S. pilots to have the same rules as foreign pilots is “the right thing to do.”​

 

[Occam's Razor]

How many pilots where at the LEC meeting that were not committee members or elected officers? And what percentage is that of your LEC?

About 100-110 in attendance. Looked to be about a dozen "office holders" there. There are about 2,000 in Council 1 of ALPA.

Also, what did your LEC reps say about ALPA not going along with the wishes of the membership on the Age60 issue?

1. Our "point man" on the issue for NWA pilots had just passed away the day before the LEC meeting, following an accident in his home. He was our EVP, Captain Darryl Snider. A good man. His untimely death is a huge loss for NWA pilots and ALPA.

2. The wishes of the NWA MEC had not changed, which is to support the conintinuation of Age 60.

3. A resolution calling for an ALPA-wide effort to oppose the NPRM was before the MEC.

4. Members were encouraged to contact their legislators on the issue.

 

[Huck]

My pop was a Local 1 member for 31 years. This was during the "cobra" days. I went out to the picket line a few times when I was a kid.

Back then they were pretty hard core. He told me some stories about "special projects" committees....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

About 100-110 in attendance. Looked to be about a dozen "office holders" there. There are about 2,000 in Council 1 of ALPA.

5% is average. Is it effective or even representative?

1. Our "point man" on the issue for NWA pilots had just passed away the day before the LEC meeting, following an accident in his home. He was our EVP, Captain Darryl Snider. A good man. His untimely death is a huge loss for NWA pilots and ALPA.

I heard. My regards. A true loss.....

2. The wishes of the NWA MEC had not changed, which is to support the conintinuation of Age 60.

Copy that...

3. A resolution calling for an ALPA-wide effort to oppose the NPRM was before the MEC.

politcal action.... good stuff

4. Members were encouraged to contact their legislators on the issue.

even better.... how many do you think actually will?

Regards...

 

[75M]

It pains me to say it, I wish ALPA was better, but if UAL had bought TWA, no TWA pilots would be flying for them. And ALPA would have let it go without a peep!

I would have rather taken my chances with the ALPA Merger Policy and binding arbitration. However, this may be the most illustrative example of how the APA will fight for its members while ALPA (National) acts in its own best interest.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

I would have rather taken my chances with the ALPA Merger Policy and binding arbitration. However, this may be the most illustrative example of how the APA will fight for its members while ALPA (National) acts in its own best interest.

ALPA has forgotten it represents pilots. ALPA only represents ALPA.

 

[airfogey]

APA would be all for changing the age 60 rule if American had terminated their A plan--they don't care a fig for the travelling public-just follow the money.

Airfogey

 

[BeCareful!]

Now would be an interesting time for the APA to have a membership drive in an effort to become the nation's largest pilot union. I doubt they'll ever have a more contentious issue to run a campaign on.

They'd have my vote.

BC

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Fer sher! Like those geniuses at China Air, wtih their super-duper engine-securing seatbelts? Or maybe those keen decision-makers at British Airways who value avoiding payouts to pax if the flight doesn't get them home quickly...so they flog a Whale from LAX to Ooops!...short-of-the-destination?

We need to be more like them?---->No, we're going to do it our way...I really don't think our FAA has anything to do with the China Air seatbelts. BTW, Americans fly on China Air and BA every single day. They could care less about seat belts on engines or Whale flogging (?).

Cool! Sign me up for universal health care, the Queen on our money, and nary a glimpse of the Stanley Cup in many years...and we'll talk.---You can have all that stuff. The ALPA President already has his name on a contract that allows pilots to fly up to age 65. Like it or not, it's there. If you want Queens on your money, or Universal Health Care...write your congressman.

"But Mom! Stevie has a bigger piece of pie than me!" is not a valid argument for a change that would disrupt the industry.---> HOW did a piece of pie get into all this? Did someone make that comment?

I agree...we shouldn't do it, "just because". But the change has happened, it is in the US of A airspace every day, and it is the ICAO age change that is driving this....

The safest mode of transportation on this blue marble is flying on a Part 121 airliner in the United States of America.
Ain't broke...don't "fix" it.

You already know where the FAA Administrator stands on this. And she has the support of her superiors. Discussions on FI are fun...but they carry no weight with the DC crowd.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Idle chit-chat in the immigration line with a Lufthansa 747 CA.

Me: You guys on the Age 65 plan with the EU?

LH CA: No way, LH is age 60, Germany is age 60, the union doesn't want it changed, same for company and the goverment.............I'm out at 53, the average retirement age is 55.



Take it for what it's worth. Both of us had been up all night and were 20 deep in line. I don't know the exact info of what they have over there.

 

[Phaedrus]

APA would be all for changing the age 60 rule if American had terminated their A plan--they don't care a fig for the travelling public-just follow the money. (emphasis added)

Illustrative.
I've said follow the money all along. Never was about discrimination.

 

[Neubyfly]

if UAL had bought TWA, no TWA pilots would be flying for them.

Please explain

And ALPA would have let it go without a peep!

ALPA DID let it go without a peep! That is the problem.

.