APA: No lump sums for retiring American Airlines pilots now

[laker4284]

Assuming your $1.7million lump is correct (I have no reason to doubt your number) and a pilot chose to work until 65 at $250K/yr, that pilot paid/is paying $450K or $90K/yr for the privelege to work beyond age 60.
Revenge is a dish best served cold. That was delicious.

For those under age 60, I'm sorry for the loss of your pension. For those over 60 who chose to stay, I offer you this youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6xSDBd4XfQ

Privilege?

Working to 65 is the law. If a pilot is qualified, healthy and passes the check ride why not?

Pretty pathetic to see you gloating over the misfortune of others.

 

[zonker]

Privilege?

Working to 65 is the law. If a pilot is qualified, healthy and passes the check ride why not?

Pretty pathetic to see you gloating over the misfortune of others.

Did you ever consider the misfortune of those that were permanently furloughed by the rule?

Gummer tards just never get it.

 

[The Prussian]

and nothing against other work groups but this goes to a point I made earlier about one of the things broken about airlines today.... and yes, I know WN has all of this too, but WN has major cost advantages as well with their business model.

The fact that people spend 30 years working the ramp, or working the gate and get pensions is ludicrous. These are jobs, not careers.... people should do this work while going to school, maybe as a 2nd job/income or a wife returning to work after raising kids.. not as a primary career.. the massive costs that airlines have to bear just to operate the most basic and unskilled parts of their operation are unrealistic all while trying to properly compensate pilots and mechanics the true licensed and experienced professionals that need to be well compensated;.

Nothing against other work groups?....really..(!!!?!?)...your thoughts in the following paragraph sound pretty heartless, if not judgmental, coming from one with a liberal mindset (correct me if I take you wrong). I consider myself solidly conservative, but I think your collection of thoughts right there sound very cavalier and arrogant. Why shouldn't other work groups deserve retirement benefits, just like those "annointed" professionals?...kinda makes you sound like the management types you're so strongly railing against. Everyone has their own gifts...not all the same. They also have every right to live their lives the way they see fit, as do you.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

How could these guys NOT see what was happening? Now some will have to fly until 65, and lose money in the end for their loved ones. Oooooops.

One more month.......I love those Buenos Aires layovers......ONE MORE MONTH..... OOOOOPS.



Bye Bye---General Lee

If I remember correctly, 100 or more Delta captains chose to not take the $1M plus lump sum circa 2005. How could those guys NOT see what was happening? I had one of these dudes on the j.s. back then blaming ALPA for bad info. Really? All that summer ALPA was sending out the warning flares. Most tail draggers went out July/Aug 2005. Then Sep 2005 BK and the rest is history as pension went to PBGC.

Over 100 Delta pilots passed up over $1 Million lump sum payouts then.

So GL, save us all the lecture. Same drill happened at Delta. I was there then too - before I quit. I even met one of those guys. Number one ATL 767 ER captain now. Told me how much dough he passed up. Smugly told the former NW A-320 captain flying our flight the same thing (two j.s. up there so more audience for this guy). Then he told us he had done so well with his personal investments that he didn't need that million dollars so he figured he would stay and fly. Now he just flies for fun - doesn't really need the money. As he jumpseats while his wife grabs the only non-rev seat available on the flight since he has that 30+ years seniority and has seniority based non-rev. And it was going home from his son's wedding! Buy a ticket f-ing cheapskate. Number one captain and can't afford a rt ticket BWI-MDW for your son's wedding?

Sorry

 

[AA717driver]

There were those on the union board blaming APA for not informing them of the impending filing. APA didn't have a clue (other than a couple reps from a midwestern base that have been through a couple bankruptcies whose warnings they disregarded)

Those who didn't leave when they had the chance range from those who didn't want to leave money on the table to those who believed that 'since nothing bad HAD ever happened in their careers, nothing bad WOULD ever happen'.

This generally blindsided even the most cynical and suspicious.

TC

 

[bluefin]

did you ever consider the misfortune of those that were permanently furloughed by the rule?

Gummer tards just never get it.

amen brother!

 

[CitationLover]

We just had 13 retirements today, Dec 1. Bummer for them and for those who didn't pull the plug earlier....

Now the discussion is leaning towards freezing the A Fund or just terminating it and getting a payout (a la UAL/DAL.) Any words of wisdom on this for those of you who've been through it?

A "freeze" simply stops your benefit accruals. What your accrued benefit is today at normal retirement is what it would be at retirement.

If they "terminate" the plan, in all likelihood active participants would have their benefits capped by the PBGC maximum annuity amounts reduced from the PBGC's normal retirement age (not an airline pilots one which is usually 60). In a plan termination they divide the liabilities up into buckets of priority. They then take the assets and cover bucket 1, 2, etc. until they run out of assets, this is typically in the bucket that covers actives whose pensions are capped by the PBGC maximums.

You wouldn't get paid out until you retire and commence your benefit.

 

[CitationLover]

Somehow I think that management has pension money not technically called "pension" which will be well protected no matter what. They know how to take of themselves.

Yes, they're nonqualified plans and are not funded due to tax implications. It's basically a contractual promise to pay someone. Guess what happens to that contract during a bankruptcy?

 

[Andy]

Privilege?

Working to 65 is the law. If a pilot is qualified, healthy and passes the check ride why not?

Pretty pathetic to see you gloating over the misfortune of others.

Thanks to age 65, I've been on furlough since 22 April 2009. I have no pity for those over age 60 who just lost their pensions. They overplayed the hand that they were dealt.
Frankly, after watching multiple other carriers go BK over the last decade, they were just plain stupid. And very greedy. The number of news reports over the last 3+ months talking about an AMR BK made this the least surprising BK in quite a while.
No, I don't feel any guilt for smiling at their 'misfortune'.

 

[flythere]

The fact that people spend 30 years working the ramp, or working the gate and get pensions is ludicrous. These are jobs, not careers.... people should do this work while going to school, maybe as a 2nd job/income or a wife returning to work after raising kids.. not as a primary career.. the massive costs that airlines have to bear just to operate the most basic and unskilled parts of their operation are unrealistic all while trying to properly compensate pilots and mechanics the true licensed and experienced professionals that need to be well compensated;.

Why is that so ludicrous??

Those people sacrifice and work just as hard as the rest of us! Because they don't have a degree or are responsible for hundreds of lives does not negate the hard work and effort they put into making an airline successful. Lets face it, without dedicated people doing everthing from checking people in to driving the turd hearst, there is no profit! They all help make the place run which equals profit, which equals paycheck!!

These jobs help stimulate the economy, and if a person wants to dedicate themselves to an employer long term, they should be rewarded.

I'm seeing a trend in your posting here, you are sounding more and more like an elitist, like you are above the average person because you are a pilot? Are you a pilot? Are you like a sky-god or something??

Do you run that agent orange web-site, with that manifesto posted?

It seems to keep coming back to that "instant gratification" thing??