Anyone fly for Gulfstream out there?

[starchkr]

Uhhh....Well.... I know this is kinda late and all, but i had to clear one thing up for mr. flying@500agl. SIC's at AirNet DO NOT pay a dime for the time they build, in fact thay are paid 16K a yr plus overtime and they are given full benefits, the same as everyone else in our company. Also, i signed a one year contract with Airnet, and this month i complete that one year, and by doing so i get a nice bonus on my next check($1,000). How is that PFT when they actually are paying me a total of ($1,500) to sign my John Hancock to a piece of paper that WILL NOT stand up in a court of law anyway. (We have had many pilots leave and not have to pay the contract because of little legal discrepancies in the contract)

OK, i am done, we can go on with the Gulfstream debate again.

 

[capnflyright]

There are more ways than one to tackle this argument. The majority of our military pilots received a free ride through their training, but at least PFT pilots paid for their training. It's all how you want to address this issue and getting upset because the next pilot jumped ahead doesn't do you any good. If you are sweating in a C-150 going around the patch, then embrace the experience. If you are a low time pilot sitting right seat in a B-1900, then embrace that as well. Flying is a privilege and as long as we are able to fly that is all that matters.

 

[LearLove]

Correct me if I'm wrong.....

Didn't airnet have a program (a few years back) that an sic paid $12 /hr. for sic time and the company paid them $6/hr. back. I remember the article in the airinc mag in sept/oct 98. I thing they changed it in 99 when they couldn't get 135 qualed pilots.

 

[j41driver]

I know one....

There was a girl in my ACA new hire class a few years ago that bought time at Gulfstream. She actually got hired after the 250 hours that she paid for. I've never flown with her but I have flown with several FO's that have and they all say she is a very good stick. It worked for her I guess.

 

[j41driver]

ACA shouldn't be on the PFT list

I was hired just about 2 years ago and didn't pay a penny to get the job. There are guys here that did pay, but it hasn't happened in at least 3 years.

 

[starchkr]

Year's ago yes they did... but none of the money went to the company. The SIC was to pay 12 per hour and receive 6 back as pay. The other 6 went to the PIC flying with the SIC as an extra incentive to have them onboard. Airnet did not keep any of the money, so the PFT debate just went TU on that one since all of us know that PFT is a way for the company to profit.

 

[TurboS7]

Considering that Tom Cooper started GIA with one little 402B in a run down hangar a little over 10 years ago GIA has come a long way. There is no doupt that they are a commuter success story, and the PFT's are just customer's like the passengers that fly every day. Money is money in the 135/119/121 business and it has to come from many diffrent markets.

 

[generaltso]

I bet you had to pay to get training in that 402. I disagree with PFT, but I don't really fault the company for doing it. The idea of a business is to MAKE MONEY. And if they can find people that will PFT themselves, they are going to take advantage of that fact. And there will ALWAYS be people that are willing to PFT.

PFT used to the be standard, now it is the exception. I wonder why all the companies dropped it? Surely because they couldn't get enough people to do it? Maybe pressure from the pilot groups? Anyone know?

 

[TurboS7]

I was never PFT because when I started flying it hadn't been invented yet. I was always and still am broke so I couldn't have afforded it even if it was at my doorstep. Outfits like GIA are alright in that they do give a guy a shot at a real paying flying job after the PFT. I do have a problem with outfits that charge to fly right seat in a PA31 single pilot operation, I think that is taking advantage of the situation. Hours are hours and how you get them really doesn't make the diffrence in the long run. I know the quality of experience that I have and I would be comfortable with someone with similar experience. I think that this is true for the industry, military guys are comfortable with military etc. The issue is that there are those that have been there, and those that have not. How one reacts under pressure and an emergency can only be told by experience.......that takes time. I do have a hard time knowing that the learning will have to take place with an airplane full of paying passengers vs. a lone 402 on a dark, icy, IFR night in the midwest. Time will tell....I hope I am wrong.

 

[350DRIVER]

This is getting more and more hilarious just when I thought it couldn't get any better.... - Why is it that some are concerned with the "fine details" about the Gulfjoke program.? Some ask "what percentage of the pilots who initially "BUY" the right seat are offered a job after the 250 hours expire" etc, etc, etc,etc,etc.... WHO CARES.........- This subject is getting old very fast and if anything you are giving this program "free publicity"- Gulfstream isn't worth talking about nor "debating"..


The bottom line is that if you want to "BUY" a right seat of a 1900 then by all means go to Gulfstream and enjoy... If you want to be RESPECTED by the aviation community as a whole then don't go there. Easy enough and not worth hearing Gulfstream pilots make weak attempts trying to justify why/how they "deserve" postive feedback from the pilot community which will never happen.


I just wish I had Cooper's savings account-

cheers-

 

[TurboS7]

I have met and know some nice GIA guys at least they have learned how to get along with their fellow pilot's. I see by your high level of experience that you are an expert in industry and pilot relations. I do not see a GIA and diffrent than a Comair, ASA, or any other commuter, they all jump through the same hoops and have the same ratings.

 

[350DRIVER]

Once again I will reiterate the same point that in NO way, shape or form is this an "attack" on any individual that is a Gulfstream employee instead my opinion as well as many others who frequent this board regarding the airline itself and "their" way of doing things as a business.... Like I said to those who choose to attend there "Enjoy" but don't expect to be welcomed or accepted with open arms.- - This is a debate that is not only pointless but also a complete waste of time. The facts are clearly visible for all to see and that is the bottom line.


M< Traficant gonna go 2 for 2?!

 

[TurboS7]

My point exactly, what makes you so special that you can't accept a fellow GIA pilot with open arms???? Is there an elite class out there that makes you guys-whoever you are more special than the next guy????

 

[kilomike]

Paying Passenger's Point of View

I think GIA is taking terrible advantage of those pilots and of us, the trusting passengers in the back who would expect that the pilots EARNED their jobs. I would never buy a ticket on an airline whose copilots are paying for flight time! I'll call Budget Rent-A-Car if I find out that my connecting Allegheny or Piedmont flight is cancelled, and DRIVE the rest of the way!! I'd rather trust myself behind the wheel of a car than trust my life to someone who bought his way into the copilot's seat. That seat should not be something someone can pay for.

THE PASSENGER SEATS ARE THE ONLY SEATS THAT SHOULD BE PAID FOR!!!! ONLY THOSE IN THE BACK SHOULD SHELL OUT MONEY TO BOARD A PLANE!!!!

I PAY GOOD MONEY TO BOARD A FLIGHT AND I EXPECT THAT PILOTS ARE NOT PAYING. THAT'S OUR JOB AS PASSENGERS TO PAY THE PILOTS!!!!

TO COOPER, PAY UP, PAL!! PAY YOUR PILOTS AND THEN I'LL CONSIDER PAYING FOR A TICKET ON YOUR AIRLINE!!!

 

[stingray]

I thought I was not going to respond to this one, I was wrong.

I have some friends that use to work there one of them helped get me hired at my current job, at one of the fracs. All of them hired into the captains seat. and I"ve met a lot of their other pilots while flying around south Florida.
One of the FO's started to ask me questions and he could not belive that the company i was flying for was a single pilot ifr operation he did not understand how one person could handle it alone. The feeling i got from most of the fo's there.
Point: (what happens if the captain goes down) a FO pilot which is in a supposed professional position with an airline, this is an obvious sign of lack expierence which they should already have as an "airline pilot". The program here is not giving them the proper expierence to be putting them in that seat. a PFT down fall here. PFT is a shortcut which should not be taken!!
Though my biggest problem at GIA is you are giving your money to someone who tried to be a pilot for and took part in screwing a bunch of other pilots at Eastern during the strike.
I'm sure you all know what thats called.
I will never be a pax here if i can prevent it

 

[350DRIVER]

But hey folks by the time the right seat renters hit the line they are so very well trained, safe competant pilots- no worries come on....- Just curious if they pay extra to pre flight?

 

[stingray]

350
the only pilots i 've ever talked with at GIA where their own line Pilots. Included are the pilots in my previous post.
There is no way these fo's are safe and competant going with a fresh newly inked multi ticket to the right seat of a 1900.
Line pilots with 270 +- a few hrs in a 1900, safe and competant ,NOT.
The times i've talked with some of there own captains, they've told me the same thing as i saw.
lets take somone from 0hrs to 250-270hrs put them a right seat of a 1900 and poof they are magicly a safe competant FO airline pilot. all done in a few months.
Thats the biggest crock of ****
There is NO replacement for expierence which these new FO's are severly lacking for the position that they are in.
Would you trust the lives of your family if one of these new FO's had to take over the airplane if the captain whent down. Think about it.
This program may be legal but it is not safe.
If none of that bothers you, do you still whant to give money to someone who has already crossed the line walking right by some real pilots.

 

[Freight Dog]

Re: Paying Passenger's Point of View

TO COOPER, PAY UP, PAL!! PAY YOUR PILOTS AND THEN I'LL CONSIDER PAYING FOR A TICKET ON YOUR AIRLINE!!!

Screw that scab! I wouldn't pay him a dime if it took swimming to the Bahamas or the Keys.

 

[treetopflyer]

amen,

those at gulfstream just took a different path.

by the way, if i was flying to key west in the summer, i would rather have a gulfstream 1900 take me there because i know that the gulfflight will get me in while eagle is goin around

i hate the fact that im even replying to this topic




p.s. hey 350driver if you would have bought your job you would be flying better equip. by now. dont try to explain how you like flying that a/c because if you were in it for anything other than getting "your" job that the G/S dudes are "stealing" you wouldn't even post. oh yeah did some one forget comair, aca, coex, as pft organizations? (past tense)

If you want to be pissed at someone be pissed at the majors for thier hiring practices. if you don't know what i mean then you havent been around long enough to make judgements on the g/s guys either.

"to get to beef island you need to know the procedure"

 

[350DRIVER]

Treet0-
- I won't reply to such a comical response by you...- I must say you are pretty funny though....- sorry to hear "YOU" had to PFT- Guess you "owe" mommy and daddy for your "job" also....