Anyone else think Eagle was a mistake?

[English]

EagleRJ,

I'm one of those "junior" FOs you referenced.

I upgraded on the Saab at "another" carrier. Yes, I was furloughed for six weeks and then recalled. I could have gone back to the left seat of the Saab but I had already found a better job on a jet. I turned down the recall. I'm now logging PIC time in a jet making good money, home every night, for a great company with good benefits, yadda yadda yadda. No, you are right, I'm not the PIC of an airliner (is the Saab an airliner?)making 33k a year commuting across the country. I can't speak for others who left during the big upheaval, but for me, it was the best decision I ever made. I see those with my seniority holding terrible lines and making 23K a year. I have two type rating because I took a chance and made the jump. Since 9/11 I have been offered classes at two other regionals (one as a Saab captain) and had six corporate job offers. The types gave me options. Don't knock the choice some of us made.

airstang,

With three years...tough choice. I'd bail but I am a big risk-taker. I'd look for a corporate job where you'd get typed and get a chance to move to the left seat soon. You already have the 121 time - the majors will see that and won't look down at your corporate time. Do you have Saab time? Shuttle America is hiring Saab captains. Do you have ERJ time? EJM runs a shuttle operation on the West Coast for Intel, you'd get typed....there are options - I'd start looking!

 

[Swaayze]

Man, I can't stand it anymore. I wanna whine too!

After almost 10 years in the airline industry I thought I had it made. Now I'm right back where I started, looking for an airline to hire me. Since hindsight is 20/20 I can say I probably should've never left my Saab Captain job at Eagle. Had finally upgraded after almost 7 years in the right seat of turboprops at 2 carriers (4+ at Eagle) and was loving life and building the almighty turbine PIC, living in base in my new house, seeing friendly faces each day at work. Then I made the decision to apply to a major airline that I wasn't even sure I wanted to work for, and of course they offered me the job and I was greedy - so I went. 911 and a furlough later, recall is far from imminent. I managed less than 500 turbine PIC in my short Captaincy at Eagle, so now I'm either over or under qualified and furloughed from a major to boot. Luckily I found a (non-airline, non-turbine) flying job post 911 already, but life sure is different. Yep, guess I shoulda stayed.

I don't disagree that things may seem crappy. Everyone's situation, goals, and perceptions are different, and one man's dream job is another's joke. When I was at Eagle it was a good job, despite what you'd think from listening to the pilots. Now, with the whole TWE mess I'm sure it's worse. But don't be too quick to jump ship, the grass isn't always as green as it appears to be elsewhere. And you never know when a big dog will leave a steaming pile on your new doorstep.


There, I feel better.

 

[EagleRJ]

English,

I didn't intend to slam anyone who wan't flying for an airline. That's great that you found another job that you like, and you're probably making more money than you were at Eagle or the "other" airline, with better quality of life.

Anyone's career planning should obviously include their present position in the company. I've been with Eagle for just over four years, and I was lucky enough to upgrade after two years and I've been able to hold onto it (so far). I'm just a few hours away from 1000 PIC. I know FOs here who have roughly the same seniority, but didn't follow exactly the same track, and are not looking at upgrading anytime soon. Someone in that situation would obviously be better justified to leave and go elsewhere.

 

[English]

EagleRJ,

No problem. My "significant other" is a captain at Eagle so I kinda hear both sides of it on a daily basis.

 

[ACWild]

"I've yet to find an Eagle guy/gal that likes their job"

To start an unofficial poll... I'd like to say that I do like my job, but I am not so crazy about my employer. Yes, the Eagle employees (not just the pilots), complain alot, but they are great people in general. I've made alot of friends here and generally look forward to flying with them.
Our relationship with our employer is like a bad marriage. It was exciting at first, but after being lied to and abused for many years, it can get very old. We're just hoping for a good marriage counselor right now.
(Just my 2,000 aachiever points).

 

[airstang]

AAcheiver points!

You know what... you hit it on the head. I do enjoy the folks I work with. I think that its a "misery loves company." You are exactly right about the employ/management relationship.

We even get screwed occasionally....

So you know that 200 points can be redeemed for a "tube o' lube"

 

[FLYnMONKEYS]

ouch...

Sure you'd love the job right now, because you are furloughed. Why didn't you go to Eagle instead of American if you love the idea of Eagle so much?

Hey, thanks for pointing out the obvious. Yes sure a job at Eagle would be great now, anything beats being furloughed. It's hard to sit back and read someones bitching while a lot of us don't even have jobs. I don't love Eagle as you would try to make the board believe. I will however, fly their planes, and cash their checks if that's how it goes down. I believe the APA ASM Cap will prevail and many AA pilots will be flying over at Eagle. BTW I already did the commuter thing and had a blast.

Hey instead of whining "woe is me" get active with your union and make Eagle a better place, and if you're trying to move on or make more money take the very first upgrade you can. Don't sit back waiting until you can hold a sweet line or your prefered domicile. I killed my seniority in type every chance I got and look where it got me....check that it was a good plan until Sept 10th.

Seriously, do whatever it takes to make yourself more marketable. There are plenty of out of work, soon to be out of work, and high time regional Captains all with more Cheese on their pizza. They will be competing for very few spots that become available at the majors level in the next few years. What ever you do, do it for yourself and QUIT YOUR BITCHIN!

 

[English]

The best thing about Eagle was flying with great crews - couldn't have asked for a more professional and fun group of people to work with.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I'd love to have your job. I'm on furlough from a regional, and can't get on with anyone else due to recency of flight issues.

If I was at Eagle, I'd fly for about 6 months or so, and then get on with Air Wisconsin or Comair, and fly there until I could get on with a major I like, right now ATA, SWA, DAL, Continental. If I never got the major job, I'd be happy stating at AWAC or Comair. (If I was in your shoes, I would've left Eagle long ago.)

With my airline, I might get called back in 18 months, or maybe never. I'm starting to fly skydivers to get my flying hours going.

It's really hard to tell what is the best move. Staying with PanAm, Eastern-bad move? I knew a guy who switched from USAir to Delta in 1991-good move. I knew another guy who turned down a job with FedEx, when they were about 6 months old, to stay in the Air Force because he wanted a stable job that made a lot of $-bad move.

You just never know!

So far, I've been an airline pilot for 3 months, and I loved every minute of it, and can't wait to get back!

Cliff
GB,WI

 

[EMJ145]

Dude,

I've been at Eagle for 3 years and I'll never upgrade. As far as that not flying on the side business goes, I would say that since the company and the union didn't pay for your ratings, they can't tell you what to do with them on your days off.

 

[cherokee]

AWACOff check pm

AWACOff check pm

 

[Tim47SIP]

Dont really know from personnal experience, but when I was retiring from the mil (I was a rotor guy and had to get all of my 2300 fixed wing hours on my own with no help from the mil - for the poster above that thinks we get everything handed to us), I researched all of the regionals and mainlines that were hiring. Since I wansn't highly competitive at the mainline I looked for the best regional. I had 6 freinds that all went to Eagle and two that went to COEX in 99, they did their best to get me to go to their respective airline. I had interviews at both within 24 hours after sending my app (via fax) and those buddies bringing in their LOR's. I decided to hold out for the one that I am at now (even though they lost my app twice and took over two months to notify me), ASA. As one poster above stated that a while back, Eagle was the best and ASA the worst. Well, back then I saw Eagle fading fast and had a hunch that ASA would improve (was to be purchased by Delta).
Moral of this story is that out of those 8 buddies of mine, only one is still with Eagle and just got a jet FO transition. He is training at this moment. I am not sure of his ERJ pay at 3 years but as a 340 FO he stated he was making 26?$ (or something very close to that) and I am a two year FO at ASA making 34$. All of the rest quit within 18 months of their DOH. 5 have applied with ASA (2 hired) and 2 are at EJA. All of them complained of the same topics stated above.
Just another view on the subject. Not ment to upset the eagle guys as I am sure that they are a bunch of great individuals.

 

[dtoften]

Concerning Eagle, I don't understand why the movement is so slow. Seems to me that the bigger the regional, the more movement. Why are new hires sitting reserve so long? Are they hiring too many people? Also, were the captains (pre 9-11) moving to the majors or are they making a career out of Eagle? What is the junior base for Eagle? Is there much difference between senior and junior base for movement to captain? I understand your contract quagmire. Hopefully Eagle pilots will get redemtion. Trying to get a feel for the company.

 

[generaltso]

dtoften: more lifers, less movement

 

[airstang]

Getting a "feel for the company"

If you want to get a good feel for the company (AMR Corp.) Just grease up your bung hole, paint your self red, and bend over in front of an angry bull.

The scoop is this....


A lot of guys got hired at the various airlines that were acquired by AMR to make the "Eagle" that exists today (maybe not for long). The most senior guy has 25 years seniority. That seems hard to believe, but remember there were times not so long ago when you couldn't touch a 135 job without some serious experience. (Eagle used to be 135 operation)

So a lot of these guys got hired with the attitude that they would not be there long, so very little concern was given to long term labor agreements... hence the signing of our contract currently 12 years from its "amendable" end.

This 16 year agreement pretty much froze wages except for standard industry indexed increases based on when certain other carriers increase their pilots' rates.

In addition, a "flow through" provision was supposed to allow 50% of all AA pilot new hires come from top of the Eagle pilot list provided each pilot completes 24 months as RJ Captain.

Due to the timing of the contract and the way AA conducted its hiring, less than 180 Eagle pilots ever "flowed" to AA. Without getting into the boring details, a lot of guys that might have gone elsewhere, stuck it out with the hope of just flowing through. Also the "flow through" was not offered to anyone over 50 and has completely stopped after 9-11. In fact many AA pilots (through a furlough protection agreement) who were furloughed actually flowed BACK to Eagle and are now flying Eagle jets as Captains.

The most junior bases are of course anywhere where there are Saabs and where you can imagine not wanting to be in the Winter (Boston, New York, Chicago). You will find mostly senior Captains in the LAX, DFW Bases. While the Most Junior Captains in the system are typically on the Saab, the exception is San Juan. The most junior Captains (I think) are San Juan ATR. I served 7 months on "the Rock" as we called it. I found Puerto Rico to be very inhospitable to my "gringo" self. I could not wait to get back to the Domestic System.

So, when you can get that regional job, find a company that does not paint birds on the tail and you'll do alright.

If you or any collegues come here, don't say you weren't warned!