Anyone else think Eagle was a mistake?

[airstang]

AAcheiver points!

You know what... you hit it on the head. I do enjoy the folks I work with. I think that its a "misery loves company." You are exactly right about the employ/management relationship.

We even get screwed occasionally....

So you know that 200 points can be redeemed for a "tube o' lube"

 

[FLYnMONKEYS]

ouch...

Sure you'd love the job right now, because you are furloughed. Why didn't you go to Eagle instead of American if you love the idea of Eagle so much?

Hey, thanks for pointing out the obvious. Yes sure a job at Eagle would be great now, anything beats being furloughed. It's hard to sit back and read someones bitching while a lot of us don't even have jobs. I don't love Eagle as you would try to make the board believe. I will however, fly their planes, and cash their checks if that's how it goes down. I believe the APA ASM Cap will prevail and many AA pilots will be flying over at Eagle. BTW I already did the commuter thing and had a blast.

Hey instead of whining "woe is me" get active with your union and make Eagle a better place, and if you're trying to move on or make more money take the very first upgrade you can. Don't sit back waiting until you can hold a sweet line or your prefered domicile. I killed my seniority in type every chance I got and look where it got me....check that it was a good plan until Sept 10th.

Seriously, do whatever it takes to make yourself more marketable. There are plenty of out of work, soon to be out of work, and high time regional Captains all with more Cheese on their pizza. They will be competing for very few spots that become available at the majors level in the next few years. What ever you do, do it for yourself and QUIT YOUR BITCHIN!

 

[English]

The best thing about Eagle was flying with great crews - couldn't have asked for a more professional and fun group of people to work with.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I'd love to have your job. I'm on furlough from a regional, and can't get on with anyone else due to recency of flight issues.

If I was at Eagle, I'd fly for about 6 months or so, and then get on with Air Wisconsin or Comair, and fly there until I could get on with a major I like, right now ATA, SWA, DAL, Continental. If I never got the major job, I'd be happy stating at AWAC or Comair. (If I was in your shoes, I would've left Eagle long ago.)

With my airline, I might get called back in 18 months, or maybe never. I'm starting to fly skydivers to get my flying hours going.

It's really hard to tell what is the best move. Staying with PanAm, Eastern-bad move? I knew a guy who switched from USAir to Delta in 1991-good move. I knew another guy who turned down a job with FedEx, when they were about 6 months old, to stay in the Air Force because he wanted a stable job that made a lot of $-bad move.

You just never know!

So far, I've been an airline pilot for 3 months, and I loved every minute of it, and can't wait to get back!

Cliff
GB,WI

 

[EMJ145]

Dude,

I've been at Eagle for 3 years and I'll never upgrade. As far as that not flying on the side business goes, I would say that since the company and the union didn't pay for your ratings, they can't tell you what to do with them on your days off.

 

[cherokee]

AWACOff check pm

AWACOff check pm

 

[Tim47SIP]

Dont really know from personnal experience, but when I was retiring from the mil (I was a rotor guy and had to get all of my 2300 fixed wing hours on my own with no help from the mil - for the poster above that thinks we get everything handed to us), I researched all of the regionals and mainlines that were hiring. Since I wansn't highly competitive at the mainline I looked for the best regional. I had 6 freinds that all went to Eagle and two that went to COEX in 99, they did their best to get me to go to their respective airline. I had interviews at both within 24 hours after sending my app (via fax) and those buddies bringing in their LOR's. I decided to hold out for the one that I am at now (even though they lost my app twice and took over two months to notify me), ASA. As one poster above stated that a while back, Eagle was the best and ASA the worst. Well, back then I saw Eagle fading fast and had a hunch that ASA would improve (was to be purchased by Delta).
Moral of this story is that out of those 8 buddies of mine, only one is still with Eagle and just got a jet FO transition. He is training at this moment. I am not sure of his ERJ pay at 3 years but as a 340 FO he stated he was making 26?$ (or something very close to that) and I am a two year FO at ASA making 34$. All of the rest quit within 18 months of their DOH. 5 have applied with ASA (2 hired) and 2 are at EJA. All of them complained of the same topics stated above.
Just another view on the subject. Not ment to upset the eagle guys as I am sure that they are a bunch of great individuals.

 

[dtoften]

Concerning Eagle, I don't understand why the movement is so slow. Seems to me that the bigger the regional, the more movement. Why are new hires sitting reserve so long? Are they hiring too many people? Also, were the captains (pre 9-11) moving to the majors or are they making a career out of Eagle? What is the junior base for Eagle? Is there much difference between senior and junior base for movement to captain? I understand your contract quagmire. Hopefully Eagle pilots will get redemtion. Trying to get a feel for the company.

 

[generaltso]

dtoften: more lifers, less movement

 

[airstang]

Getting a "feel for the company"

If you want to get a good feel for the company (AMR Corp.) Just grease up your bung hole, paint your self red, and bend over in front of an angry bull.

The scoop is this....


A lot of guys got hired at the various airlines that were acquired by AMR to make the "Eagle" that exists today (maybe not for long). The most senior guy has 25 years seniority. That seems hard to believe, but remember there were times not so long ago when you couldn't touch a 135 job without some serious experience. (Eagle used to be 135 operation)

So a lot of these guys got hired with the attitude that they would not be there long, so very little concern was given to long term labor agreements... hence the signing of our contract currently 12 years from its "amendable" end.

This 16 year agreement pretty much froze wages except for standard industry indexed increases based on when certain other carriers increase their pilots' rates.

In addition, a "flow through" provision was supposed to allow 50% of all AA pilot new hires come from top of the Eagle pilot list provided each pilot completes 24 months as RJ Captain.

Due to the timing of the contract and the way AA conducted its hiring, less than 180 Eagle pilots ever "flowed" to AA. Without getting into the boring details, a lot of guys that might have gone elsewhere, stuck it out with the hope of just flowing through. Also the "flow through" was not offered to anyone over 50 and has completely stopped after 9-11. In fact many AA pilots (through a furlough protection agreement) who were furloughed actually flowed BACK to Eagle and are now flying Eagle jets as Captains.

The most junior bases are of course anywhere where there are Saabs and where you can imagine not wanting to be in the Winter (Boston, New York, Chicago). You will find mostly senior Captains in the LAX, DFW Bases. While the Most Junior Captains in the system are typically on the Saab, the exception is San Juan. The most junior Captains (I think) are San Juan ATR. I served 7 months on "the Rock" as we called it. I found Puerto Rico to be very inhospitable to my "gringo" self. I could not wait to get back to the Domestic System.

So, when you can get that regional job, find a company that does not paint birds on the tail and you'll do alright.

If you or any collegues come here, don't say you weren't warned!

 

[SF3CAP]

Hey 'Stang. I've been at Eagle since '98, and am a VERY junior SF3 Captain at DFW. In September, I upgraded to ATR Captain at DFW (actually finished IOE on the 7th - phew), then in December I was displaced to the SF3. I was lucky to hold onto that CA seat, and am trying to get up to 1000 PIC as fast as I can to get out. I know lots of junior captains doing the same thing. I've been looking at all other job possibilities, including going to work for the FAA.

When I came to Eagle, it was the "place to be". Eagle and Skywest were the only non-PFT regionals out there, and that's why I came to Eagle. Boy, how things change. I try not to be too negative while at work, it makes work a nasty place to be. I love my job when i'm flying, the rest of it sucks.

Hang in there, it will get better (at least that's what I tell myself). I really hope we can work something out with the company and the APA.

 

[airstang]

I'm with you there!

Hey, tell all those guys in DFW to hurry up and get hired somewhere else! I need to get into the left seat and with 2 years at the DFW base, I think that's the place to upgrade to.

I'm not going back to the Rock!

Thanks for the post!

 

[stunsiapla]

Re: Getting a "feel for the company"

Originally posted by airstang
If you want to get a good feel for the company (AMR Corp.) Just grease up your bung hole, paint your self red, and bend over in front of an angry bull.
Nice.....

The scoop is this....


A lot of guys got hired at the various airlines that were acquired by AMR to make the "Eagle" that exists today (maybe not for long). The most senior guy has 25 years seniority. That seems hard to believe, but remember there were times not so long ago when you couldn't touch a 135 job without some serious experience. (Eagle used to be 135 operation)

The senior guy at Eagle has 32 years, but who's counting. And beside, the rest of your post is fiction so why should this be correct?

So a lot of these guys got hired with the attitude that they would not be there long, so very little concern was given to long term labor agreements... hence the signing of our contract currently 12 years from its "amendable" end.

That pretty much sums it up

This 16 year agreement pretty much froze wages except for standard industry indexed increases based on when certain other carriers increase their pilots' rates.

Yes, but you WILL get a raise.

In addition, a "flow through" provision was supposed to allow 50% of all AA pilot new hires come from top of the Eagle pilot list provided each pilot completes 24 months as RJ Captain.

A rather simplistic (not to mention incorrect) interpretation of the flow-thru agreement.

Due to the timing of the contract and the way AA conducted its hiring, less than 180 Eagle pilots ever "flowed" to AA. Without getting into the boring details, a lot of guys that might have gone elsewhere, stuck it out with the hope of just flowing through. Also the "flow through" was not offered to anyone over 50 and has completely stopped after 9-11. In fact many AA pilots (through a furlough protection agreement) who were furloughed actually flowed BACK to Eagle and are now flying Eagle jets as Captains.

Not quite sure what "timing of the contract and the way AA conducted its hiring" means? AA was hiring 100 pilots a month.
Had the flow-thru continued after 9/11/01, at the same pace. there would be 560 Eagle pilots at AA at the end of 2003. How many of these 560 pilots stood even a remote chance of getting a job at AA without the flow-thru? Don't blame it on timing or AA hiring practices. The only way you can blame this on Eagle is by suggesting that bin-Laden and AMR are somehow in co-hoots.
In fact, there 16 AA pilots that flowed-back to Eagle. Is that many? While no one likes the circumstances that caused them to be here, 16 is hardly many. If asked, I am sure they would rather be back in the cockpit at AA.

The most junior bases are of course anywhere where there are Saabs and where you can imagine not wanting to be in the Winter (Boston, New York, Chicago). You will find mostly senior Captains in the LAX, DFW Bases. While the Most Junior Captains in the system are typically on the Saab, the exception is San Juan. The most junior Captains (I think) are San Juan ATR. I served 7 months on "the Rock" as we called it. I found Puerto Rico to be very inhospitable to my "gringo" self. I could not wait to get back to the Domestic System.

I would take ORD in the winter over DFW in the summer. SJU is what YOU make of it.

So, when you can get that regional job, find a company that does not paint birds on the tail and you'll do alright.

If you or any collegues come here, don't say you weren't warned!

Make sure you warn them about the cheap D-2 charges. And don't forget the insurance. It sure is not fair to pay $10.00 for $150.00 worth of medicine. And that $20.00 co-pay for a Doctor visit is just outrageous.

I have been with Simmons/Eagle since 1983. I am not a pilot, but I work with you guys everyday. There is a reason I am still here. That being, it is a very good place to work. I find it hard to believe that, just because you are a pilot, that it is that much worse.


Corey

 

[SF3CAP]

Hey, i'll do my best to get out of your way, but I think a saab upgrade isn't likely. I'll probably be at the bottom of the reserve list until the saabs are gone out of DFW. I just hope I can hold jet CA before I get displaced to jet FO!

 

[airstang]

OUCH!

Corey,


Sorry that my post sounded so distasteful and bitter.

Please understand that I love the job, love the people, love the equipment. I, like most pilots, don't feel alive without something to bitch about. Like most workgroups at AMR, you don't have to look very far to find material. I have received a tremendous amount of help from certain people withing the company, specifically the training dept. However, when it comes to "the company" as a whole, the bottom line is that we all feel like a part number.

Perhaps my analogy about getting "greased up" was a little grotesque, but I just got my paycheck and it's kind of hard not to feel that way when you know how much your Captains make and what the big brothers at AA pull down.

Also, I just found out that another of my old Flight Instructor buddies just got hired by Alaska. It seems like my students are passing me by as Captains at other regionals. My friends are going to nationals and majors. If not for the horrible turn the industry has taken, they would have been far better than are now. I just don't see success in my future...unless I make some changes.

After I found myself in Puerto Rico, I felt like I was not "warned" about the realities of Eagle ahead of time. I made my choice to come here based on limited info and the fact that I could not afford Pay for Training.

So thank you for pointing out my inaccuracies and I hope that others who don't have the inside picture can get a more accurate glimpse.


.. and your right about one thing, the benefits are great. It's just hard to see that when you get buried under the daily "cockpit gossip."

 

[3green]

You are right the benifts are great. I Just had a baby that cost me $000. Cant say that for my friend at another company he just forkd out over $2K. There will be movement at Eagle, with over 400 pilots with AA numbers that will flow. but it doesnt look like it will be tell some time 2004. So sit tight or move on. one point to make out if you look at the Sen. list there is only 70 pilots between 10 years and 5 years. So were almost over that ten year jet CA stigma.

 

[FEDUPPILOT]

Well, all I can say is that I have beeb on the rock for 14 months since I was a newhire. (was going to jet on Oct.22) and i am going INSANE!!!! Dont get me wrong the flying is great but, everything else SU*CKS!! The fact that theres no light at the end of the tunnel just makes things worse. So, to you guys in the states I wish I was in your shoes!

WUUUUUU.......needed to vent!!

 

[browntail]

Hey Eagle guys you don't have it that bad! You could of been working at TWE like I had to. I could spend days on here telling you about that place. I think I'm getting a migraine just thinking about it. Also, what's that dull pain in my arse? LOL!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Galaxy]

eagle--waste of time?

A buddy of mine went there over 3 years ago. The same time I took off to fly skydivers and drink beer. 3 years later I am a Capt at a fractional . For him he just finally got in the jet 1 year ago and still makes dirt wages. The best thing he ever told me was he is sitting in some hub airport eating and along comes a student that he taught from intro flight to ME Comm. He is now an ATP and a jet capt and some other commuter. So I would say yea Eagle was a big mistake.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

Going back to the original post, if you're only 30 and you're concerned that your dreams of flying for a major airline are going down the toilet, it sounds like you had unrealistic expectations of an airline career. In the recent past, I'm sure there were plenty of pilots that were able to reach a major by 30, but as history and current events are teaching us, that should not be considered the norm.

"I love the job, love the people, love the equipment" Then keep flying and you will reach your goal. Even if it takes another five years at Eagle, I would still consider a 25 year flying career at a major airline lucrative if that's what you're after.

I have no idea what AE is like, other than what I've read on this board. If you're already making $30-40k a year then you've weathered the storm. You're not living like a starving college student, you're in the 50 percentile of household income in the U.S. Again, it's all about your perspective and expectations.

Overall, I would say that you are not in a bad position. The hard part is behind you, just keep flying and keep applying.