Anyone else think Eagle was a mistake?

[SF3CAP]

Hey 'Stang. I've been at Eagle since '98, and am a VERY junior SF3 Captain at DFW. In September, I upgraded to ATR Captain at DFW (actually finished IOE on the 7th - phew), then in December I was displaced to the SF3. I was lucky to hold onto that CA seat, and am trying to get up to 1000 PIC as fast as I can to get out. I know lots of junior captains doing the same thing. I've been looking at all other job possibilities, including going to work for the FAA.

When I came to Eagle, it was the "place to be". Eagle and Skywest were the only non-PFT regionals out there, and that's why I came to Eagle. Boy, how things change. I try not to be too negative while at work, it makes work a nasty place to be. I love my job when i'm flying, the rest of it sucks.

Hang in there, it will get better (at least that's what I tell myself). I really hope we can work something out with the company and the APA.

 

[airstang]

I'm with you there!

Hey, tell all those guys in DFW to hurry up and get hired somewhere else! I need to get into the left seat and with 2 years at the DFW base, I think that's the place to upgrade to.

I'm not going back to the Rock!

Thanks for the post!

 

[stunsiapla]

Re: Getting a "feel for the company"

Originally posted by airstang
If you want to get a good feel for the company (AMR Corp.) Just grease up your bung hole, paint your self red, and bend over in front of an angry bull.
Nice.....

The scoop is this....


A lot of guys got hired at the various airlines that were acquired by AMR to make the "Eagle" that exists today (maybe not for long). The most senior guy has 25 years seniority. That seems hard to believe, but remember there were times not so long ago when you couldn't touch a 135 job without some serious experience. (Eagle used to be 135 operation)

The senior guy at Eagle has 32 years, but who's counting. And beside, the rest of your post is fiction so why should this be correct?

So a lot of these guys got hired with the attitude that they would not be there long, so very little concern was given to long term labor agreements... hence the signing of our contract currently 12 years from its "amendable" end.

That pretty much sums it up

This 16 year agreement pretty much froze wages except for standard industry indexed increases based on when certain other carriers increase their pilots' rates.

Yes, but you WILL get a raise.

In addition, a "flow through" provision was supposed to allow 50% of all AA pilot new hires come from top of the Eagle pilot list provided each pilot completes 24 months as RJ Captain.

A rather simplistic (not to mention incorrect) interpretation of the flow-thru agreement.

Due to the timing of the contract and the way AA conducted its hiring, less than 180 Eagle pilots ever "flowed" to AA. Without getting into the boring details, a lot of guys that might have gone elsewhere, stuck it out with the hope of just flowing through. Also the "flow through" was not offered to anyone over 50 and has completely stopped after 9-11. In fact many AA pilots (through a furlough protection agreement) who were furloughed actually flowed BACK to Eagle and are now flying Eagle jets as Captains.

Not quite sure what "timing of the contract and the way AA conducted its hiring" means? AA was hiring 100 pilots a month.
Had the flow-thru continued after 9/11/01, at the same pace. there would be 560 Eagle pilots at AA at the end of 2003. How many of these 560 pilots stood even a remote chance of getting a job at AA without the flow-thru? Don't blame it on timing or AA hiring practices. The only way you can blame this on Eagle is by suggesting that bin-Laden and AMR are somehow in co-hoots.
In fact, there 16 AA pilots that flowed-back to Eagle. Is that many? While no one likes the circumstances that caused them to be here, 16 is hardly many. If asked, I am sure they would rather be back in the cockpit at AA.

The most junior bases are of course anywhere where there are Saabs and where you can imagine not wanting to be in the Winter (Boston, New York, Chicago). You will find mostly senior Captains in the LAX, DFW Bases. While the Most Junior Captains in the system are typically on the Saab, the exception is San Juan. The most junior Captains (I think) are San Juan ATR. I served 7 months on "the Rock" as we called it. I found Puerto Rico to be very inhospitable to my "gringo" self. I could not wait to get back to the Domestic System.

I would take ORD in the winter over DFW in the summer. SJU is what YOU make of it.

So, when you can get that regional job, find a company that does not paint birds on the tail and you'll do alright.

If you or any collegues come here, don't say you weren't warned!

Make sure you warn them about the cheap D-2 charges. And don't forget the insurance. It sure is not fair to pay $10.00 for $150.00 worth of medicine. And that $20.00 co-pay for a Doctor visit is just outrageous.

I have been with Simmons/Eagle since 1983. I am not a pilot, but I work with you guys everyday. There is a reason I am still here. That being, it is a very good place to work. I find it hard to believe that, just because you are a pilot, that it is that much worse.


Corey

 

[SF3CAP]

Hey, i'll do my best to get out of your way, but I think a saab upgrade isn't likely. I'll probably be at the bottom of the reserve list until the saabs are gone out of DFW. I just hope I can hold jet CA before I get displaced to jet FO!

 

[airstang]

OUCH!

Corey,


Sorry that my post sounded so distasteful and bitter.

Please understand that I love the job, love the people, love the equipment. I, like most pilots, don't feel alive without something to bitch about. Like most workgroups at AMR, you don't have to look very far to find material. I have received a tremendous amount of help from certain people withing the company, specifically the training dept. However, when it comes to "the company" as a whole, the bottom line is that we all feel like a part number.

Perhaps my analogy about getting "greased up" was a little grotesque, but I just got my paycheck and it's kind of hard not to feel that way when you know how much your Captains make and what the big brothers at AA pull down.

Also, I just found out that another of my old Flight Instructor buddies just got hired by Alaska. It seems like my students are passing me by as Captains at other regionals. My friends are going to nationals and majors. If not for the horrible turn the industry has taken, they would have been far better than are now. I just don't see success in my future...unless I make some changes.

After I found myself in Puerto Rico, I felt like I was not "warned" about the realities of Eagle ahead of time. I made my choice to come here based on limited info and the fact that I could not afford Pay for Training.

So thank you for pointing out my inaccuracies and I hope that others who don't have the inside picture can get a more accurate glimpse.


.. and your right about one thing, the benefits are great. It's just hard to see that when you get buried under the daily "cockpit gossip."

 

[3green]

You are right the benifts are great. I Just had a baby that cost me $000. Cant say that for my friend at another company he just forkd out over $2K. There will be movement at Eagle, with over 400 pilots with AA numbers that will flow. but it doesnt look like it will be tell some time 2004. So sit tight or move on. one point to make out if you look at the Sen. list there is only 70 pilots between 10 years and 5 years. So were almost over that ten year jet CA stigma.

 

[FEDUPPILOT]

Well, all I can say is that I have beeb on the rock for 14 months since I was a newhire. (was going to jet on Oct.22) and i am going INSANE!!!! Dont get me wrong the flying is great but, everything else SU*CKS!! The fact that theres no light at the end of the tunnel just makes things worse. So, to you guys in the states I wish I was in your shoes!

WUUUUUU.......needed to vent!!

 

[browntail]

Hey Eagle guys you don't have it that bad! You could of been working at TWE like I had to. I could spend days on here telling you about that place. I think I'm getting a migraine just thinking about it. Also, what's that dull pain in my arse? LOL!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Galaxy]

eagle--waste of time?

A buddy of mine went there over 3 years ago. The same time I took off to fly skydivers and drink beer. 3 years later I am a Capt at a fractional . For him he just finally got in the jet 1 year ago and still makes dirt wages. The best thing he ever told me was he is sitting in some hub airport eating and along comes a student that he taught from intro flight to ME Comm. He is now an ATP and a jet capt and some other commuter. So I would say yea Eagle was a big mistake.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

Going back to the original post, if you're only 30 and you're concerned that your dreams of flying for a major airline are going down the toilet, it sounds like you had unrealistic expectations of an airline career. In the recent past, I'm sure there were plenty of pilots that were able to reach a major by 30, but as history and current events are teaching us, that should not be considered the norm.

"I love the job, love the people, love the equipment" Then keep flying and you will reach your goal. Even if it takes another five years at Eagle, I would still consider a 25 year flying career at a major airline lucrative if that's what you're after.

I have no idea what AE is like, other than what I've read on this board. If you're already making $30-40k a year then you've weathered the storm. You're not living like a starving college student, you're in the 50 percentile of household income in the U.S. Again, it's all about your perspective and expectations.

Overall, I would say that you are not in a bad position. The hard part is behind you, just keep flying and keep applying.