Any updates at XO Jet?

[godspeed8]

I knew about it, but was also reading on this post that they were hiring again. I was being genuine in my interest in the company. I'd just like to get some info on what the future is like over there. I'm looking for work like many other pilots out there right now.

 

[Pervis]

I knew about it, but was also reading on this post that they were hiring again. I was being genuine in my interest in the company. I'd just like to get some info on what the future is like over there. I'm looking for work like many other pilots out there right now.

Totally understandable. But would you like to work for a company that hired you before recalling those on the street that already worked for them? In this industry, that's called a scab. While I'm not really into all the sensitivity crap going on in this country right now, it does appear very insensitive to be looking for employment from a company that has folks on the street right now. Especially if you are looking to imrove your current situation while employed, and the furloughed folks are struggling.

 

[jonjuan]

Totally understandable. But would you like to work for a company that hired you before recalling those on the street that already worked for them? In this industry, that's called a scab. While I'm not really into all the sensitivity crap going on in this country right now, it does appear very insensitive to be looking for employment from a company that has folks on the street right now. Especially if you are looking to imrove your current situation while employed, and the furloughed folks are struggling.

In your estimation, does xojet currently employ scabs because they terminated people with no regard for date of hire?

 

[cherry20's]

Totally understandable. But would you like to work for a company that hired you before recalling those on the street that already worked for them? In this industry, that's called a scab. While I'm not really into all the sensitivity crap going on in this country right now, it does appear very insensitive to be looking for employment from a company that has folks on the street right now. Especially if you are looking to improve your current situation while employed, and the furloughed folks are struggling.

That's not a SCAB at an un-unionized company. A SCAB is someone who crosses a picket line at a unionized company... Neither of which is happened at XOJET.

It sounds like he is looking for work like all the other unemployed.

 

[ifly90]

pervis obviously hasnt worked for a unionized carrier, or is just not too well informed as to what the meaning and definition of a scab is. be careful how you use this term unless you know how to properly apply it. until then everyone should just ignore your posting.

 

[Pervis]

In your estimation, does xojet currently employ scabs because they terminated people with no regard for date of hire?

Assuming they were already employed, not at all. It's not their decision to make how furloughs are doled out. Furloughing out of reverse seniority is a management and work rules issue. Without a written agreement, at will employee rules apply, at the mercy of management.

I know what it's like to be furloughed, and I just don't think it's right to try and fill a seat while those formerly employed at a company, who were released due to economic conditions and no fault of their own, are still waiting for recall. Maybe my use of the term scab was a bit harsh, but ask those who remain on the street what they'd call new replacements, union or not, picket line or not.

 

[scangadah]

due to economic conditions and no fault of their own, are still waiting for recall. .

You assume too much.
The use of "SCAB" in this example is incorrect no matter how you paint it.

 

[CherryBomb]

A bit cold in here isn't it?

 

[cherry20's]

Assuming they were already employed, not at all. It's not their decision to make how furloughs are doled out. Furloughing out of reverse seniority is a management and work rules issue. Without a written agreement, at will employee rules apply, at the mercy of management.

I know what it's like to be furloughed, and I just don't think it's right to try and fill a seat while those formerly employed at a company, who were released due to economic conditions and no fault of their own, are still waiting for recall. Maybe my use of the term scab was a bit harsh, but ask those who remain on the street what they'd call new replacements, union or not, picket line or not.

Thats not actually a true statement... I think you should only post on things that you KNOW are facts! I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Sky Captain]

That's not a SCAB at an un-unionized company. A SCAB is someone who crosses a picket line at a unionized company... Neither of which is happened at XOJET.

It sounds like he is looking for work like all the other unemployed.

The word you are looking for isn't SCAB, its SERF (or SLAVE). A SERF works the land (sky in this case) for the wealthly land owner (management). The SERF isn't allowed to own the property on which he lives (XOJet employees have no guaranteed rights to jobs or longevity). The landowner (management) subjects the SERF to a minimal existence (starvation due to loss of employment if you don't do as I demand) which leads to desperation which ultimately leads to slavery (conditional employment). But the landowner (management) controls the SERF (slave...ie pilot) completely and can kick the SERF (pilot...ie slave) from the landowners land (fired) at anytime for any reason (performance issue) without cause (right to work).

You are NOT a SCAB....you are a SERF.

 

[jonjuan]

The word you are looking for isn't SCAB, its SERF (or SLAVE). A SERF works the land (sky in this case) for the wealthly land owner (management). The SERF isn't allowed to own the property on which he lives (XOJet employees have no guaranteed rights to jobs or longevity).

So, according to your definition, all union members are also serfs? They don't own anything nor do they have guaranteed rights to jobs or longevity. Case in point, the US airline industry.
Bottom line, unless you own the sucker, there are no guarantees.

 

[Sky Captain]

So, according to your definition, all union members are also serfs? They don't own anything nor do they have guaranteed rights to jobs or longevity. Case in point, the US airline industry.
Bottom line, unless you own the sucker, there are no guarantees.

U are wrong...again. Doesn't that get old?

Union workers have the ability to negotiate (they own a stake in THEIR own livelihood and future) the power of a contract (guaranteed longevity while contract is active) the power of seniority (guaranteed of a job instead of hitting the street outta seniority order because you don't park ur snout up the rear end of management's behind) and the power of the GRIEVANCE process (job and career earnings protections).

Even during market corrections, at least airlines (Unions) furlough in seniority order AND have negotiated recall rights. This post was started in regards to XOJet FIRING pilots during this market correction and then hiring off the street without regard to the fired pilots.

No one will ever know if the XOJET pilots were fired for a "just" cause because without a grievance process only 1 side (management...ie landowner) of the firings is heard. The pilots (serfs) were kicked off the land without any due process or appeals.

I OWN my seniority number. Therefore, I am not a serf. I maybe a hired hand but I have a say so in my future.

How many Non-Union employees have been fired (just or unjust) and gotten their jobs back? I know several UNION employees whose heads were put on the block unjustly and were awarded their jobs back. Why? Because they OWN their seniority rights and due to their higher status in the food chain are protected with the grievance process. (1 example were the FlightOps guys furloughed outta seniority order but later got their positions back)

Non-Union workers do not have that right. The are slaves to management. They choose to be "at will" workers (serfs).

 

[cherry20's]

U are wrong...again. Doesn't that get old?

Union workers have the ability to negotiate (they own a stake in THEIR own livelihood and future) the power of a contract (guaranteed longevity while contract is active) the power of seniority (guaranteed of a job instead of hitting the street outta seniority order because you don't park ur snout up the rear end of management's behind) and the power of the GRIEVANCE process (job and career earnings protections).

Even during market corrections, at least airlines (Unions) furlough in seniority order AND have negotiated recall rights. This post was started in regards to XOJet FIRING pilots during this market correction and then hiring off the street without regard to the fired pilots.

No one will ever know if the XOJET pilots were fired for a "just" cause because without a grievance process only 1 side (management...ie landowner) of the firings is heard. The pilots (serfs) were kicked off the land without any due process or appeals.

I OWN my seniority number. Therefore, I am not a serf. I maybe a hired hand but I have a say so in my future.

How many Non-Union employees have been fired (just or unjust) and gotten their jobs back? I know several UNION employees whose heads were put on the block unjustly and were awarded their jobs back. Why? Because they OWN their seniority rights and due to their higher status in the food chain are protected with the grievance process. (1 example were the FlightOps guys furloughed outta seniority order but later got their positions back)

Non-Union workers do not have that right. The are slaves to management. They choose to be "at will" workers (serfs).

Thats not what this thread was about to begin with... Thanks for taking it to a Union vs Non-Union topic though! We knew what the conditions were when we all got offered positions. If you don't want to work at a NON-UNION company, don't apply at XO, that simple. There is 10,000 others that do...

 

[Iflewjetz]

Thanks Cherry. Boy, talk about a thread Hijack!! Where the heck did union vs. non-union come from. Yes pilots can be let go, fired, adios amigos WITHOUT an obligation to be hired back. Hard to believe, I know. It is no different than working at a bank and getting canned for poor performance. I have worked union, and non-union and have been layed off at both. One with recall, the other shut down the flight department. So, for the people that dont get it....those pilots WILL NOT be offered their job back. That is it. I am sorry it happened, but it was not just because the company wanted to. There had to be a reason. Just like Dr. House says "people lie". I dont know what it is..but there are two sides to a story, but this novel has ended, no sequel. I dont mean to sound rude, I am not, but I am tired of the complaining on this thread and getting off track of my original question and how people are owed the jobs they were in. Sometimes silence IS the best thing. I have been unemployed now for 5 months, so getting a little edgy, sorry. Now, I will sit down and wait for the flame to shoot my way. Thank you.

 

[dime line]

Thats not what this thread was about to begin with... Thanks for taking it to a Union vs Non-Union topic though! We knew what the conditions were when we all got offered positions. If you don't want to work at a NON-UNION company, don't apply at XO, that simple. There is 10,000 others that do...

wow, all about me hu?

 

[netjetwife]

... I have been unemployed now for 5 months, so getting a little edgy, sorry. ...

That must be tough! Unemployment edginess is entirely understandable. You (and your family?) have my sympathy, Iflew. Good thing this is a post because that mouthful is easier to type than to say... I just read the entire thread and it appears to me that your questions were answered promptly. I think perhaps that the only ones who could offer more info on hiring are XOJET managers so won't other discussions take the edge off your pain? Sorry, I couldn't resist the pun, but the suggestion is serious.

I also understand the frustration of unionized pilots who work hard to raise the bar in the industry and dislike watching pilots go without rights (like furlough rules and due process) they've fought to establish and think that all pilots deserve. I don't think it's a rivalry issue of union vs non-union as much as it is a concern of how the pilots are treated at each fractional. Obviously, if professional compensation and fair work rules are the industry standard it will be better for all frac pilots and families. Likewise, if a pilotgroup allows themselves to be taken advantage of there's a legitimate worry of those practices spreading or of their peers having to contend with them during contract negotiations.

Considering all that is at stake, I think it's unrealistic to expect Union supporters to withhold their questions/opinions from threads discussing the treatment of frac pilots. I believe that most folks posting in this forum want the industry, as a whole, to prosper and all the employees to be treated fairly. Respectful discourse across the board will aid that goal while encouraging camaraderie in the frac community. NJW