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Any news from Washington from ASA/alpa?

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Texx said:
You know the answer to that one. I guess we agree on that issue.
Click to expand...

Yes we do. WF says we have still been using this person as a "consultant" and that he still has an ALPA phone. Do you think that is true? If so, then isn't the current MEC partly to blame also?
 
JoeMerchant said:
ASA made about half of that, which would be about 75 million. Throw in the rest of the improvements, and the total increased cost would be about 75 million, maybe more. No company in their right mind would agree to give over their entire annual net profit to one employee group. What happens when the other employees then want the same thing? ASA quickly goes from profitable to losing money.... not going to happen....

Put your request under your pillow..... the tooth fairy is more likely to deliver.....

As far as the "5 years of negotiating", that cuts both ways. BOTH sides have drug their heels at different points. It was actually our side that started dragging out feet.... we were waiting for better times.... that didn't work out so well now, did it?
Click to expand...

I still disgree with your line of thinking on retro pay. It does not contribute to future operating cost. Are we going to cost 75 million more annually now? NO! Retro pay is a one time deal. How much as ASA made in the last 5 years?
Heck, Skywest INC has over 600 million in the bank.
 
2​
  1. [FONT=Arial,Arial]
    Mediated negotiations resumed Friday in Washington, D.C. We are disappointed to report that after two days of intense negotiations we were unable to reach a tentative agreement. The remaining open issues have been narrowed to five. They are: Scope, Pay rates, Retro pay, Duty rigs and Retirement 401(k) contributions.
    The Association tried various approaches in attempting to resolve the open issues. The mediators were very helpful in trying to bring the parties to agreement but despite their efforts we were unable to reach an acceptable agreement. Here is a breakdown of the remaining open issues:​
    1. •
    1. [FONT=Arial,Arial]Scope: [/FONT]The Association attempted two different approaches to protect our jobs. Both concepts have been rejected by management. Management’s offer was woefully inadequate and would not provide the job security that the ASA pilots have demanded.

      [*]•       [FONT=Arial,Arial]Pay rates: [/FONT]Management offered SkyWest rates on the CR2 but offered no cost of living allowance (COLA) increases for the duration of the agreement. On the CRJ 700, management offered a date of signing increase of 1 percent as previously proposed but with no additional increases.

      [*]•       [FONT=Arial,Arial]Duty Rigs: [/FONT]The parties are apart on the application of the duty rig. The company-proposed duty rig would only apply to scheduled duty and the Association’s position should apply to all time on duty.

      [*]•       [FONT=Arial,Arial]Retro pay: [/FONT]Management offered a signing bonus of two million dollars for the entire pilot group. Such an offer is obviously inadequate, especially after four and one-half years of negotiations.
    1. [/FONT]
      [FONT=Arial,Arial]

    [*]• [/FONT]    [FONT=Arial,Arial]Retirement: [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial]Management failed to offer any increase over their last proposal which only provides an increase to pilots with 10 years or more years of service.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]
There were several issues agreed to, such as line check override pay, long term disability insurance, and new hire pay.​
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]The session was adjourned by the mediators in the evening. The mediators will now be reporting to the members of the National Mediation Board (NMB) who will ultimately decide how our case will proceed. At this time we do not know when the NMB will advise the Association as to how this case will be handled. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]The CNC believes that our proposals are very reasonable. We tried various methods to resolve the open issues and showed flexibility in trying to reach an agreement, while maintaining the positions necessary to achieve the agreement that you have demanded and deserve. The CNC will report any new information as soon as we receive it. [/FONT]​
 
Texx said:
No comment.
Click to expand...

I'll take that as an affirmative.;)

So we have established that mistakes have been on the local level, and I think we can all agree that mistakes have been made on a national level... so maybe we should make some changes..... just a thought....
 
I'd like to point out that a poll is a scientific sampling; whereas, a census is a 100% participant turnout. What some of you are looking for is a census, not a poll.

Joe-

Your JayWalking example is weak at best. I don't need to know the difference in LEC/MEC to tell you what my contract goals are when I am polled.
 
regionalcap said:
I still disgree with your line of thinking on retro pay. It does not contribute to future operating cost. Are we going to cost 75 million more annually now? NO! Retro pay is a one time deal. How much as ASA made in the last 5 years?
Heck, Skywest INC has over 600 million in the bank.
Click to expand...

Fine... I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.... but don't cry when this goes on for another 2 or 3 years while you still hold out for that big backpay check. Meanwhile, the deficit increases as we hold out....
 
DrunkIrishman said:
I'd like to point out that a poll is a scientific sampling; whereas, a census is a 100% participant turnout. What some of you are looking for is a census, not a poll.

Joe-

Your JayWalking example is weak at best. I don't need to know the difference in LEC/MEC to tell you what my contract goals are when I am polled.
Click to expand...

Drunk,

You're more educated on these issues than the average pilot. My point was that the average pilot doesn't understand ALPA, the RLA, negotiations, or what the industry standard is, but they are demanding these things.... They don't even know who their reps. are..... Democracy is a dangerous thing if the population isn't educated...

Oh and what everyone here is asking for is actually a survey, not a census... nobody is asking for a count of the pilots...
 
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JoeMerchant said:
Your right, but that is only because this is dragging out so long and the majors are hiring now. The backpay/bonus cost will continue to become a smaller piece of the total cost... and at some point it will become palatable to management. The longer this drags out, the smaller the total cost of what we are asking for becomes.... as longevity continues to shrink, costs are coming down.

I agree with you, but this was based on the pilot who told 79%N1 that he expected $40,000 in back pay... to simplify I cut that in half.... It just isn't realistic for people to be expecting $40,000 or even half of that in back pay....
Click to expand...
agreed. 40k is "pie in the sky" so is 20K.
 
So two days passed and all they could agree on is line check pay, disability pay, and new hire pay. But I bet they had some great dinners and lots of jocular back slapping at the bar.

And now we get to stew for another three months as we watch our assets and routes continue to be transfered to other airlines. Way to go, y'all!

Maybe it's time to give the "other" coalition a shot...
 
ohplease! said:
apples to oranges. Not that I'd expect you to be able to understand.
Click to expand...

When do you leave us??? Of course you have this LAME comeback....you have NO FAITH in your pilot group! I believe that I can speak for everyone here...except your boyfried Joe, when I say....PLEASE make it soon. YOU are a DISGRACE to this PILOT GROUP! Unfortunately the folks at Airtran didn't see you for the dirtbag that you are....GOOD RIDANCE!!:smash:
 
Tomct said:
When do you leave us??? Of course you have this LAME comeback....you have NO FAITH in your pilot group! I believe that I can speak for everyone here...except your boyfried Joe, when I say....PLEASE make it soon. YOU are a DISGRACE to this PILOT GROUP! Unfortunately the folks at Airtran didn't see you for the dirtbag that you are....GOOD RIDANCE!!:smash:
Click to expand...
who said anything about Airtran?
 
Cesus:

"A census is the process of obtaining information about every member of a population (not necessarily a human population). The term is mostly used in connection with national 'population and housing censuses' (to be taken every 10 years according to United Nations recommendations); agriculture censuses (all agriculture units) and business censuses (all enterprises)."
 
FightingIrish said:
Who cares what you call it, just put something out for all of us to vote on! This is getting old.
Click to expand...

There has to be a TA first. There is not one at this time. The MEC and CNC are only doing what the majority want. I myself wouldn't mind looking at where we're at too, but it's not the way it works. And no COLA for the length of the contract? You gotta be sheting me BL! While you and the rest of the mgt idiots get your bonuses, but nothing for anyone else huh?
 
ASARJMan said:
There has to be a TA first. There is not one at this time. The MEC and CNC are only doing what the majority want.
Click to expand...

Really?

If so, then why is an MEC member running around saying that he believes the current table position would pass by 60%? If the MEC believes that a MAJORITY would pass it, why hasn't it been put to vote? Let me guess... the MEC thinks they have to wait in spite of us, because we'll just vote yes on the first piece of crap to come our way. We're stupid, and they know what's best for us, right?

Is that how y'all define "doing what the majority wants"?
 
John Pennekamp said:
Really?

If so, then why is an MEC member running around saying that he believes the current table position would pass by 60%? If the MEC believes that a MAJORITY would pass it, why hasn't it been put to vote? Let me guess... the MEC thinks they have to wait in spite of us, because we'll just vote yes on the first piece of crap to come our way. We're stupid, and they know what's best for us, right?

Is that how y'all define "doing what the majority wants"?
Click to expand...


What is there to vote on? They do not have a TA on the entire contract, yet, and there are probably 10 or more open issues. When they get a TA, and it passes the MEC sniff test, then and only then will we be able to vote.
 
Speedtape said:
What is there to vote on? They do not have a TA on the entire contract, yet, and there are probably 10 or more open issues. When they get a TA, and it passes the MEC sniff test, then and only then will we be able to vote.
Click to expand...

Why don't you go ahead and tell us what those open issues are, and what the MEC's vs. the company's positions are on them. We're waiting.

As far as I'm concerned, all we need is scope, QOL, and COLA. This was never meant to be a money contract!
 
John Pennekamp said:
Why don't you go ahead and tell us what those open issues are, and what the MEC's vs. the company's positions are on them. We're waiting.

As far as I'm concerned, all we need is scope, QOL, and COLA. This was never meant to be a money contract!
Click to expand...

The company doesn't want to pay any COLA, none at all. The company doesn't want to agree to the scope, or any scope actually, that we need. And if you want retro, we're far apart there too. the company did finally address retro by offering $2 million, but that's far from acceptable.
 
John Pennekamp said:
Really?

If so, then why is an MEC member running around saying that he believes the current table position would pass by 60%? If the MEC believes that a MAJORITY would pass it, why hasn't it been put to vote? Let me guess... the MEC thinks they have to wait in spite of us, because we'll just vote yes on the first piece of crap to come our way. We're stupid, and they know what's best for us, right?

Is that how y'all define "doing what the majority wants"?
Click to expand...

OK, once again, when did this particular MEC member conduct this survey? I wasn't polled. Anybody out there polled by this MEC member?

There are still open issues on the table. That's why there is no TA for members to vote on. Just for you JP, the company wants no COLA, no scope, and little retro.
 
The MEC is going to try and get everything that they can. This is done by pushing for everything you can until the last minute of negotiations before a release for self help durring the cooling off period. Unfortunately we probably won't get that opportunity- this thing will drag out as it has for quite some time.

One of two things needs to happen here- either cast the company proposal out for a vote, or do a comprehensive survey that allows 100% of the pilot group to participate. Also, our MEC should be educating our pilots on what is attainable here in order to help pilots!

Expressjet got their contract durring an expansion boom- CoEx wanted a deal done to grow. Regional growth is now over, and it will be a fight for survival from here on. The only growth anyone will see is at the expense of another regional. In short, we missed the pay boat.

It isn't what SkyWest has made or is making, but what they are willing to give us. That's what we are worth. Do you really think that SkyWest is going to give us 5 years worth of retro when we:

-Delayed the contract negotiations by waiting for a more stable time following September 11th.

-Have only been owned by SkyWest for two years. Why are they going to pay us for the three years of protracted negotiations they couldn't influence.

So we could strike and force the upper hand, but we aren't going to strike. Why??? Because it isn't going to be allowed in the political environment that exists today! We are, at best, going to be released after November of 2008. GET A DEAL DONE FOLKS!!!!!!!
 
ASARJMan said:
OK, once again, when did this particular MEC member conduct this survey? I wasn't polled. Anybody out there polled by this MEC member?
Click to expand...

Maybe you should be asking the MEC member that question. In fact, maybe all pilots should. Y'all voted for him, right? Hold them accountable!

ASARJMan said:
There are still open issues on the table. That's why there is no TA for members to vote on. Just for you JP, the company wants no COLA, no scope, and little retro.
Click to expand...

For the record, I have little interest in retro. A signing bonus would be nice. I'm very interested in improving our working conditions and providing job security. Being the highest paid CRJ pilots in the DCI portfolio seems like a very stupid move for job security. COLA on top of industry standard pay would be acceptable to me. Sell the raises for scope and be done with it.
 
VeeOne said:
The MEC is going to try and get everything that they can. This is done by pushing for everything you can until the last minute of negotiations before a release for self help durring the cooling off period. Unfortunately we probably won't get that opportunity- this thing will drag out as it has for quite some time.

One of two things needs to happen here- either cast the company proposal out for a vote, or do a comprehensive survey that allows 100% of the pilot group to participate. Also, our MEC should be educating our pilots on what is attainable here in order to help pilots!

Expressjet got their contract durring an expansion boom- CoEx wanted a deal done to grow. Regional growth is now over, and it will be a fight for survival from here on. The only growth anyone will see is at the expense of another regional. In short, we missed the pay boat.

It isn't what SkyWest has made or is making, but what they are willing to give us. That's what we are worth. Do you really think that SkyWest is going to give us 5 years worth of retro when we:

-Delayed the contract negotiations by waiting for a more stable time following September 11th.

-Have only been owned by SkyWest for two years. Why are they going to pay us for the three years of protracted negotiations they couldn't influence.

So we could strike and force the upper hand, but we aren't going to strike. Why??? Because it isn't going to be allowed in the political environment that exists today! We are, at best, going to be released after November of 2008. GET A DEAL DONE FOLKS!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


Very well said.

I would only add that since ALPA and the company are EQUALLY responsible for dragging out negotiations for 2.5 years each, the issue is split and we don't deserve retro any more then they should be required to pay it.
 
ASARJMan said:
Guess you didn't read what I wrote Will. The company is offering NO COLA!, NO SCOPE! Pay on the 200 is still not up to industry standard.
Click to expand...

That's the best you can do, Mike. Still mad that I called you out?

If you want to believe I'm will, that's fine. If I was him, then I suppose I wouldn't have to come here to ask these questions, as I'd already know the answers. Good thing I know how to contact him... he's actually very accessible and holds some very "interesting" opinions on many issues ASA and otherwise. Regardless, none of that really changes the issue at hand, and your cheap shots fall far far short. More testiment to the sagging credibility of this MEC in office when that's the best its biggest supporters can offer.

I read and comprehended your post. I see that there is no COLA and no scope. The MEC had an opportunity to change that and refused. There could have been a TA, but now there will be nothing for quite a while.

I noticed you didn't mention retro in your response. I'll assume you agree with me on that point.
 

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