Anti-union letter from the IPJB.

[Dizel8]

An in-house union, properly organized, and supported by the pilot group would be a success. I don't think our pilots should give up and roll over for ALPA so easily.

Let us know when you start your in house drive!

 

[Dave's kid]

Let us know when you start your in house drive!

I'll be sure to let you know when I start the drive. I'll tell you this, it'll be run better than the JBPA drive.

I think it's sad the the in-house group gave up so quick. JBPA failed for a ton of reasons, not the least of which was that it was basically organized on the back of a cocktail napkin and never developed beyond that. Sorbie had a vision that he was obviously ill-equiped to execute. Most pilots, even those that supported JBPA, recognized what a mess that would have been. That's one of the main reasons it failed.

And now the pro-union group is running to the easiest, cheapest slut out there. I think the pro guys are just being cheap and lazy. They don't want to do the work necessary to run a proper in-house union.

 

[Dizel8]

They don't want to do the work necessary to run a proper in-house union.

Like I said, let us know when you start!

 

[Splert]

Like I said, let us know when you start!

I found the link to the in-house:

Pilotvaluescommittee.com.

Oh and it will be 'properly run' too. Just ask the company and they will tell you.

 

[shadesofBS]

I'll be sure to let you know when I start the drive. I'll tell you this, it'll be run better than the JBPA drive.

I think it's sad the the in-house group gave up so quick. JBPA failed for a ton of reasons, not the least of which was that it was basically organized on the back of a cocktail napkin and never developed beyond that. Sorbie had a vision that he was obviously ill-equiped to execute. Most pilots, even those that supported JBPA, recognized what a mess that would have been. That's one of the main reasons it failed.

And now the pro-union group is running to the easiest, cheapest slut out there. I think the pro guys are just being cheap and lazy. They don't want to do the work necessary to run a proper in-house union.

What are you talking about? Mike and his group had their sh#t together! They had significant input from APA and their attorneys, and SWAPA, and even ALPA. They developed a framework C&BL and a website. They conducted numerous open meetings and conference calls. They collected cards and conducted a clean vote which is more than we can say for the PVC.
They were competent and experienced and they ran as good a campaign as you can run on a shoe-string.
That effort failed because the BoBs, the Company, and snakes like you ran a counter-campaign full of lies. Did you watch the video of the BoBs trying to grill JBPA in campaign meeting? It was abundantly clear who was prepared and who was not and it was also very clear what the motive was. The BoBs and Jetblue were never interested in collaboration or understanding. They ran a negative campaign from day one.
The next in-house campaign would face exactly the same thing and it would fail again.
What we learned during the JBPA campaign is that an in-house would be doomed to failure even IF it was successfully voted in.
We have a company who is committed, with the help of Ford&Harrison and a dozen or so minions from the pilot seniority list, to fight any union effort in-house or otherwise.
SWAPA succeeds because they work for a reasonable and fair-minded company.
We do not.

 

[B6Busdriver]

where's the contract? I just see a TA that hasn't been ratified yet...

Another thread trashed by Regul8r.....thanks for contributing nothing..again.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

An airline that has a movement in progress to leave ALPA...

I guess Blue defines a "movement" as 6 guys and a P.O. box......

Scary stuff!!

 

[shadesofBS]

I guess Blue defines a "movement" as 6 guys and a P.O. box......

Scary stuff!!

Here at Jetblue, we've perfected the art of finding any usefull shred of information and putting it into the company spin machine for use against the "enemies of the state." The Jetblue propoganda machine is huge and impressive and it chugs along 24 hours a day.

The only thing DIFFERENT about Jetblue is that they manage the message more aggressively than any airline I've been associated with and they've done that from day one.

This culture is completely contrived and, as such, cannot be sustained.

When the history of this airline is written they will say that Jetblue tried but failed to capture the magic that SWA was able to achieve and maintain. The reasons will be obvious.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

:laugh: Nice Work BS.......

Time for me to head to the "Blue room" and have a "movement"!

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

I guess Blue defines a "movement" as 6 guys and a P.O. box......

Scary stuff!!

I've talked with at least 6 jumpseaters from Delta, and they have all discussed how much more appropriate it would be to have their own in-house union where their money and interests would be better served over ALPA's. So I guess I must have talked to them all!!!

It makes great sense when you have that many pilots at Delta and the new United to take your union in-house. They can afford it, they have the experience, and the money stays somewhat in their own pockets... If/when that happens, who will be left to stuff the purse of ALPA? Yup, the regionals!!! ...and of course, the 2000 pilots from Jetblue...

 

[Sailpilot]

I've talked with at least 6 jumpseaters from Delta, and they have all discussed how much more appropriate it would be to have their own in-house union where their money and interests would be better served over ALPA's. So I guess I must have talked to them all!!!

It makes great sense when you have that many pilots at Delta and the new United to take your union in-house. They can afford it, they have the experience, and the money stays somewhat in their own pockets... If/when that happens, who will be left to stuff the purse of ALPA? Yup, the regionals!!! ...and of course, the 2000 pilots from Jetblue...

Hows the soaring going? You falcon you.......:blush:

Did you find any Prey on your last trip?

 

[BeachBummer]

Ah man, you just can't make this stuff up:

So I'm flyin with this CA that says:
- the pvc is responsible for all the delays in implimentation of the FSM
-PVC members don't want more efficient rsv
-ALPA will be the end of any input pilots have in building pairings
-our earnings will be depleted by the union and will cause losses
-in the next down turn we're F-in over the newbs because union will furlough them(not the company)
-growth will stop because the cost is unknown
-a CBA will take atleast 5+ years to attain and it's gonna suck because nothing big will be worked out
-all the union supporters on the pvc ruined the process
-PEA is iron clad not to furlough
-3A... this is the best. Not to be part of 3A becuase when the others win, he'll just go to the company and they'll pay out his. He'll get it and the 45% paid to the lawyers.

So if we join a union we will lose any control that we had to start with and will ultimately be worse off than we are now.

If things were so darn awsome, and there was ounce one of legitimate good faith work between the co and the pvc we would not be here again 18mo after the last drive. The big picture has been lost and all the VP's of the forest hill gang are too happy to be VP's to fix it.

 

[Splert]

I've talked with at least 6 jumpseaters from Delta, and they have all discussed how much more appropriate it would be to have their own in-house union where their money and interests would be better served over ALPA's. So I guess I must have talked to them all!!!

It makes great sense when you have that many pilots at Delta and the new United to take your union in-house. They can afford it, they have the experience, and the money stays somewhat in their own pockets... If/when that happens, who will be left to stuff the purse of ALPA? Yup, the regionals!!! ...and of course, the 2000 pilots from Jetblue...

If and when.

Sounds like a solid plan.

Here is a deal:

If DPA is the representative for DAL pilots in a year, I'll quit JetBlue.

If they are not then you have to quit.

Deal?

 

[Fins Up]

Do you ever see a HAWK fly with others? No, they usually fly alone... My kids pointed out what they said was a buzzard yesterday, but have you ever seen one fly alone? It was a hawk. Up there, all alone, stalking his prey. You see, they kill their prey-- buzzards only go after something already run over, like an armadillo...

you = dork. That is one of the stupidest posts I've seen here - and that's saying something.

 

[Dizel8]

[quote="dave's kids']Why would I want to give ANY union 1.95% of my salary to talk to JetBlue leadership when I can just walk into the office myself? [/quote]

How has that been working for you lately!

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Ah man, you just can't make this stuff up:

So I'm flyin with this CA that says:
- the pvc is responsible for all the delays in implimentation of the FSM
-PVC members don't want more efficient rsv
-ALPA will be the end of any input pilots have in building pairings
-our earnings will be depleted by the union and will cause losses
-in the next down turn we're F-in over the newbs because union will furlough them(not the company)
-growth will stop because the cost is unknown
-a CBA will take atleast 5+ years to attain and it's gonna suck because nothing big will be worked out
-all the union supporters on the pvc ruined the process
-PEA is iron clad not to furlough
-3A... this is the best. Not to be part of 3A becuase when the others win, he'll just go to the company and they'll pay out his. He'll get it and the 45% paid to the lawyers.

So if we join a union we will lose any control that we had to start with and will ultimately be worse off than we are now.

If things were so darn awsome, and there was ounce one of legitimate good faith work between the co and the pvc we would not be here again 18mo after the last drive. The big picture has been lost and all the VP's of the forest hill gang are too happy to be VP's to fix it.

This guy would not be T.Y. would it.

 

[ArchieF16]

This guy would not be T.Y. would it.

You mean newly elected PVC member TY?.........:angryfire

 

[coogebeachhotel]

I've talked with at least 6 jumpseaters from Delta, and they have all discussed how much more appropriate it would be to have their own in-house union where their money and interests would be better served over ALPA's. So I guess I must have talked to them all!!!

It makes great sense when you have that many pilots at Delta and the new United to take your union in-house. They can afford it, they have the experience, and the money stays somewhat in their own pockets... If/when that happens, who will be left to stuff the purse of ALPA? Yup, the regionals!!! ...and of course, the 2000 pilots from Jetblue...

Funny my brother is a 77 FO at Delta. I showed him your posts and he............laughed

 

[BeachBummer]

This guy would not be T.Y. would it.

No, but he must have some followers. This was a long 4 day, lots of conversation. I've never seens anyone that was so blind to the "well this is the best I've ever had it, the company will do you right every time" ideal. "Everything is the pilots/pvc members fault... we signed up to fly after all. you knew the contract when you came here..."


AH, don't get me started

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Funny my brother is a 77 FO at Delta. I showed him your posts and he............laughed

It gets better

"If he jumpseated with 6 turkeys of the less than 100 turkeys of the over 10,000 total. Damn that boy should be playing the lottery" In other words.....BS

 

[Dave's kid]

How has that been working for you lately!

Pretty well. Thanks for the concern.

 

[StarChecker]

Pretty well. Thanks for the concern.

Great! Next time you utilize this "direct relationship", can you ask about that $130/month increase in my premiums next year with no input from my committee?

I tried...but I'm still paying $1500 more next year for my health insurance. Maybe you'll have better luck.

While you're in there, can you ask about our retirement workaround? And about the guys who are on disability and have been cut off from our health insurance? And can you also mention that a scope clause would be really awesome too?

Wow...thanks. I never knew you were the conduit to change...let me rip this ALPA lanyard off. Looks like we DO have a direct relationship after all.

 

[Dizel8]

Pretty well. Thanks for the concern.

You're welcome, just wanted make sure at least one of us got a good deal!

 

[Splert]

Pretty well. Thanks for the concern.

The only kid of Dave's is a one-eyed corn lump fish.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Pretty well. Thanks for the concern.

Can you provide a real example of this direct relationship at jetblue? Specifically, what was the issue, who or what dept title did you visit and what type of action was taken on your behalf to solve the problem.....

Thanks!

 

[shadesofBS]

Can you provide a real example of this direct relationship at jetblue? Specifically, what was the issue, who or what dept title did you visit and what type of action was taken on your behalf to solve the problem.....

Thanks!

I can:

Ten years ago they told me our health insurance would be competitive with SWA and other major airlines, instead we are "owning our health" and we have the worst in the industry = direct relationship = I stopped cleaning.

They brought in a new aircraft type and told us all pay would stagnate while the new aircraft "proved" itself = direct relationship = I stopped doing my little song and dance on the PA and the gate.

After the obligatory "waiting period" was over, they gave us an overdue raise while they reached around and stole everything back and then some with flight scheduling manual changes, short staffing, and a hike in premium pay = direct relationship = I set the brake, grab my bag, and go home.

These are the kinds of direct actions/re-actions that bean counters understand.

Their direct relationship = destruction of their own brand.

 

[BeachBummer]

Whatever man, we get to play pool and drink beer with the CEO. You don't get to do that just anywhere. I mean really, we should just be happy to fly a plane for a living.

GOSH

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I can:

Ten years ago they told me our health insurance would be competitive with SWA and other major airlines, instead we are "owning our health" and we have the worst in the industry = direct relationship = I stopped cleaning.

They brought in a new aircraft type and told us all pay would stagnate while the new aircraft "proved" itself = direct relationship = I stopped doing my little song and dance on the PA and the gate.

After the obligatory "waiting period" was over, they gave us an overdue raise while they reached around and stole everything back and then some with flight scheduling manual changes, short staffing, and a hike in premium pay = direct relationship = I set the brake, grab my bag, and go home.

These are the kinds of direct actions/re-actions that bean counters understand.

Their direct relationship = destruction of their own brand.

This guy gets it (BS)......This is the post of the year.

Nobody wants to hurt their respective airline, but to quote Rambo, John J. "They drew first blood, not me".......

Direct relationships are all dandy when you are a new-hire, but get screwed over or receive empty promises, it makes you think a little.....

 

[sniper]

Air Midwest TY? Was he on the MEC there?

Not during my time there. Maybe late 80s or early 90s, ....

He was always good with the later Mesa management SOBs.
Tony is for Tony and Tony's wallet, period.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

I can:

Ten years ago they told me our health insurance would be competitive with SWA and other major airlines, instead we are "owning our health" and we have the worst in the industry = direct relationship = I stopped cleaning.

They brought in a new aircraft type and told us all pay would stagnate while the new aircraft "proved" itself = direct relationship = I stopped doing my little song and dance on the PA and the gate.

After the obligatory "waiting period" was over, they gave us an overdue raise while they reached around and stole everything back and then some with flight scheduling manual changes, short staffing, and a hike in premium pay = direct relationship = I set the brake, grab my bag, and go home.

These are the kinds of direct actions/re-actions that bean counters understand.

Their direct relationship = destruction of their own brand.

There is a difference. Just because I disagree with some of you guys and sometimes the company (it's still a free country last I checked), it doesn't force me to be somebody I'm not. The attitude dipicted here is no different than those pilots out there slowing their taxis = to a crawl or not showing up to work in mass numbers because of their dissatisfaction with their contract talks. Is that where we are headed? Is there no pride in what we do anymore? Oh wait, that's right, we've been beaten down = one too many times by management so we're going to display our protest by not doing anything more that what we're supposed to... Sounds like a union to me-- good practice...