Chickenhawk
Comedian
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2002
- Posts
- 55
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Another ignorant celebrity
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Toecutter
going underground
- Joined
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- Posts
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No problem chinkenhawk,
I took back what I wrote. To give a background on this board, myself and Snakum have been getting a lot of flak for standing up for people that are against the war and Bush. Now I'm not a peacenick(hope nobody has "peacenick" as a name here.) but I do believe that people in this country people can say what they want. That is what all of us that served have stood for. It bothers me that there are such narrow minded people out there that want to brand somebody a commie or liberal just because they speak their mind.
I took back what I wrote. To give a background on this board, myself and Snakum have been getting a lot of flak for standing up for people that are against the war and Bush. Now I'm not a peacenick(hope nobody has "peacenick" as a name here.) but I do believe that people in this country people can say what they want. That is what all of us that served have stood for. It bothers me that there are such narrow minded people out there that want to brand somebody a commie or liberal just because they speak their mind.
Humty72
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2002
- Posts
- 143
may apply Part 1 of 2
>Who's Smarter?
>by Cindy Osborne
>
>The Hollywood group is at it again. Holding anti-war rallies, screaming
>about the Bush Administration, running ads in major newspapers, defaming the
>President and his Cabinet every chance they get, to anyone and everyone who
>will listen. They publicly defile them and call them names like "stupid" ,
>"morons", and "idiots". Jessica Lange went so far as to tell a crowd in
>Spain that she hates President Bush and is embarrassed to be an American.
>
>So, just how ignorant are these people who are running the country? Let's
>look at the biographies of these "stupid", "ignorant" , "moronic" leaders,
>and then at the celebrities who are castigating them:
>
>President George W. Bush: Received a Bachelors Degree from Yale University
>and an MBA from Harvard Business School. He served as an F-102 pilot for the
>Texas Air National Guard. He began his career in the oil and gas business in
>Midland in 1975 and worked in the energy industry until 1986. He was elected
>Governor on November 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote. In a historic
>re-election victory, he became the first Texas Governor to be elected to
>consecutive four-year terms on November 3, 1998 winning 68.6 percent of the
>vote. In 1998 Governor Bush won 49 percent of the Hispanic vote, 27 percent
>of the African-American vote, 27 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of
>women. He won more Texas counties, 240 of 254, than any modern Republican
>other than Richard Nixon in 1972 and is the first Republican gubernatorial
>candidate to win the heavily Hispanic and Democratic border counties of El
>Paso, Cameron and Hidalgo. (Someone began circulating a false story about
>his I.Q. being lower than any other President. If you believed it, you might
>want to go to URBANLEGENDS.COM and see the truth.
>
>Vice President Dick Cheney: Earned a B.A. in 1965 and a M.A. in 1966, both
>in political science. Two years later, he won an American Political Science
>Association congressional fellowship. One of Vice President Cheney's primary
>duties is to share with individuals, members of Congress and foreign
>leaders, President Bush's vision to strengthen our economy, secure our
>homeland and win the War on Terrorism. In his official role as President of
>the Senate, Vice President Cheney regularly goes to Capital Hill to meet
>with Senators and members of the House of Representatives to work on the
>Administration's legislative goals. In his travels as Vice President, he has
>seen first hand the great demands the war on terrorism is placing on the men
>and women of our military, and he is proud of the tremendous job they are
>doing for the United States of America.
>
>Secretary of State Colin Powell: Educated in the New York City public
>schools, graduating from the City College of New York (CCNY), where he
>earned a Bachelor's Degree in geology. He also participated in ROTC at CCNY
>and received a commission as an Army second lieutenant upon graduation in
>June 1958. His further academic achievements include a Master of Business
>Administration Degree from George Washington University. Secretary Powell is
>the recipient of numerous U.S. and foreign military awards and decorations.
>Secretary Powell's civilian awards include two Presidential Medals of
>Freedom, the President's Citizens Medal, the Congressional Gold Medal, the
>Secretary of State Distinguished Service Medal, and the Secretary of Energy
>Distinguished Service Medal. Several schools and other institutions have
>been named in his honor and he holds honorary degrees from universities and
>colleges across the country. (Note: He retired as Four Star General in the
>United States Army)
>
>Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld: Attended Princeton University on
>Scholarship (AB, 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as a Naval
>aviator; Congressional Assistant to Rep. Robert Griffin (R-MI), 1957-59;
>U.S. Representative, Illinois, 1962-69; Assistant to the President, Director
>of the Office of Economic Opportunity, Director of the Cost of Living
>Council, 1969-74; U.S. Ambassador to NATO, 1973-74; head of Presidential
>Transition Team, 1974; Assistant to the President, Director of White House
>Office of Operations, White House Chief of Staff, 1974-77; Secretary of
>Defense, 1975-77.
>
>Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge: Raised in a working class family
>in veterans' public housing in Erie. He earned a scholarship to Harvard,
>graduating with honors in 1967. After his first year at The Dickinson School
>of Law, he was drafted into the U.S. Army, where he served as an infantry
>staff sergeant in Vietnam, earning the Bronze Star
>for Valor. After returning to Pennsylvania, he earned his Law Degree
>and was in private practice before becoming Assistant District Attorney in
>Erie County. He was elected to Congress in 1982. He was the first enlisted
>Vietnam combat veteran elected to the U.S. House, and was overwhelmingly
>re-elected six times.
>National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice: Earned her Bachelor's Degree in
>Political Science, Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of
>Denver in 1974; her Master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and
>her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the
>University of Denver in 1981. (Note: Rice enrolled at the University of
>Denver at the age of 15, graduating at 19 with a Bachelor's Degree in
>Political Science (Cum Laude). She earned a Master's Degree at the
>University of Notre Dame and a Doctorate from the University of Denver's
>Graduate School of International Studies. Both of her advanced degrees are
>also in Political Science.) She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts
>and Sciences and has been awarded Honorary Doctorates from Morehouse College
>in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, and the University of Notre Dame
>in 1995. At Stanford, she has been a member of the Center for International
>Security and Arms Co! ntrol, a Senior Fellow of the Institute for
>International Studies, and a Fellow (by courtesy) of the Hoover Institution.
>Her books include Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995) with Philip
>Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era (1986) with Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain
>Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the Czechoslovak Army (1984). She also has
>written numerous articles on Soviet and East European foreign and defense
>policy, and has addressed audiences in settings ranging from the U.S.
>Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the Commonwealth Club to the 1992 and
>2000 Republican National Conventions. From 1989 through March 1991, the
>period of German reunification and the final days of the Soviet Union, she
>served in the Bush Administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of
>Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council, and a
>Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. In 1986,
>while an international affairs fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations,
>she served as Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of
>Staff. In 1997, she served on the Federal Advisory Committee on Gender --
>Integrated Training in the Military. She was ! a member of the boards of
>directors for the Chevron Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the
>William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the
>International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco Symphony
>Board of Governors. She was a Founding Board member of the Center for a New
>Generation, an educational support fund for schools in East Palo Alto and
>East Menlo Park, California and was Vice President of the Boys and Girls
>Club of the Peninsula. In addition, her past board service has encompassed
>such organizations as Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the
>Carnegie Corporation, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, The Rand
>Corporation, the National Council for Soviet and East European Studies, the
>Mid-Peninsula Urban Coalition and KQED, public broadcasting for San
>Francisco. Born November 14, 1954 in Birmingham, Alabama, she resides in
>Washington, D.C.
>
>So who are these celebrities? What is their education? What is their
>experience in affairs of State or in National Security? While I will defend
>to the death their right to express their opinions, I think that if they are
>going to call into question the intelligence of our leaders, we should also
>have all the facts on their educations and background:
>
>Barbra Streisand : Completed high school Career: Singing and acting
>
>Cher: Dropped out of school in 9th grade. Career: Singing and acting
>
>Martin Sheen: Flunked exam to enter University of Dayton.Career:Acting
>
>Jessica Lange: Dropped out college mid-freshman year. Career: Acting
>
>Alec Baldwin: Dropped out of George Washington U. after scandal.
>Career:Acting
>
>Julia Roberts: Completed high school. Career: Acting
>
>Sean Penn: Completed High school. Career: Acting
>
>Susan Sarandon: Degree in Drama from Catholic University of America in
>Washington, D.C. Career: Acting
>
>Ed Asner; Completed High school. Career: Acting
>
>George Clooney: Dropped out of University of Kentucky. Career: Acting
>
>Michael Moore: Dropped out first year University of Michigan. Career:Movie
>Director
>
>Sarah Jessica Parker: Completed High School. Career: Acting
>
>Jennifer Anniston: Completed High School. Career: Acting
>
>Mike Farrell: Completed High school. Career: Acting
>
>Janeane Garofelo: Dropped out of College. Career: Stand up comedienne
>
>Larry Hagman: Attended Bard College for one year. Career: Acting
>
>
>Who's Smarter?
>by Cindy Osborne
>
>The Hollywood group is at it again. Holding anti-war rallies, screaming
>about the Bush Administration, running ads in major newspapers, defaming the
>President and his Cabinet every chance they get, to anyone and everyone who
>will listen. They publicly defile them and call them names like "stupid" ,
>"morons", and "idiots". Jessica Lange went so far as to tell a crowd in
>Spain that she hates President Bush and is embarrassed to be an American.
>
>So, just how ignorant are these people who are running the country? Let's
>look at the biographies of these "stupid", "ignorant" , "moronic" leaders,
>and then at the celebrities who are castigating them:
>
>President George W. Bush: Received a Bachelors Degree from Yale University
>and an MBA from Harvard Business School. He served as an F-102 pilot for the
>Texas Air National Guard. He began his career in the oil and gas business in
>Midland in 1975 and worked in the energy industry until 1986. He was elected
>Governor on November 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote. In a historic
>re-election victory, he became the first Texas Governor to be elected to
>consecutive four-year terms on November 3, 1998 winning 68.6 percent of the
>vote. In 1998 Governor Bush won 49 percent of the Hispanic vote, 27 percent
>of the African-American vote, 27 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of
>women. He won more Texas counties, 240 of 254, than any modern Republican
>other than Richard Nixon in 1972 and is the first Republican gubernatorial
>candidate to win the heavily Hispanic and Democratic border counties of El
>Paso, Cameron and Hidalgo. (Someone began circulating a false story about
>his I.Q. being lower than any other President. If you believed it, you might
>want to go to URBANLEGENDS.COM and see the truth.
>
>Vice President Dick Cheney: Earned a B.A. in 1965 and a M.A. in 1966, both
>in political science. Two years later, he won an American Political Science
>Association congressional fellowship. One of Vice President Cheney's primary
>duties is to share with individuals, members of Congress and foreign
>leaders, President Bush's vision to strengthen our economy, secure our
>homeland and win the War on Terrorism. In his official role as President of
>the Senate, Vice President Cheney regularly goes to Capital Hill to meet
>with Senators and members of the House of Representatives to work on the
>Administration's legislative goals. In his travels as Vice President, he has
>seen first hand the great demands the war on terrorism is placing on the men
>and women of our military, and he is proud of the tremendous job they are
>doing for the United States of America.
>
>Secretary of State Colin Powell: Educated in the New York City public
>schools, graduating from the City College of New York (CCNY), where he
>earned a Bachelor's Degree in geology. He also participated in ROTC at CCNY
>and received a commission as an Army second lieutenant upon graduation in
>June 1958. His further academic achievements include a Master of Business
>Administration Degree from George Washington University. Secretary Powell is
>the recipient of numerous U.S. and foreign military awards and decorations.
>Secretary Powell's civilian awards include two Presidential Medals of
>Freedom, the President's Citizens Medal, the Congressional Gold Medal, the
>Secretary of State Distinguished Service Medal, and the Secretary of Energy
>Distinguished Service Medal. Several schools and other institutions have
>been named in his honor and he holds honorary degrees from universities and
>colleges across the country. (Note: He retired as Four Star General in the
>United States Army)
>
>Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld: Attended Princeton University on
>Scholarship (AB, 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as a Naval
>aviator; Congressional Assistant to Rep. Robert Griffin (R-MI), 1957-59;
>U.S. Representative, Illinois, 1962-69; Assistant to the President, Director
>of the Office of Economic Opportunity, Director of the Cost of Living
>Council, 1969-74; U.S. Ambassador to NATO, 1973-74; head of Presidential
>Transition Team, 1974; Assistant to the President, Director of White House
>Office of Operations, White House Chief of Staff, 1974-77; Secretary of
>Defense, 1975-77.
>
>Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge: Raised in a working class family
>in veterans' public housing in Erie. He earned a scholarship to Harvard,
>graduating with honors in 1967. After his first year at The Dickinson School
>of Law, he was drafted into the U.S. Army, where he served as an infantry
>staff sergeant in Vietnam, earning the Bronze Star
>for Valor. After returning to Pennsylvania, he earned his Law Degree
>and was in private practice before becoming Assistant District Attorney in
>Erie County. He was elected to Congress in 1982. He was the first enlisted
>Vietnam combat veteran elected to the U.S. House, and was overwhelmingly
>re-elected six times.
>National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice: Earned her Bachelor's Degree in
>Political Science, Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of
>Denver in 1974; her Master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and
>her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the
>University of Denver in 1981. (Note: Rice enrolled at the University of
>Denver at the age of 15, graduating at 19 with a Bachelor's Degree in
>Political Science (Cum Laude). She earned a Master's Degree at the
>University of Notre Dame and a Doctorate from the University of Denver's
>Graduate School of International Studies. Both of her advanced degrees are
>also in Political Science.) She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts
>and Sciences and has been awarded Honorary Doctorates from Morehouse College
>in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, and the University of Notre Dame
>in 1995. At Stanford, she has been a member of the Center for International
>Security and Arms Co! ntrol, a Senior Fellow of the Institute for
>International Studies, and a Fellow (by courtesy) of the Hoover Institution.
>Her books include Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995) with Philip
>Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era (1986) with Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain
>Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the Czechoslovak Army (1984). She also has
>written numerous articles on Soviet and East European foreign and defense
>policy, and has addressed audiences in settings ranging from the U.S.
>Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the Commonwealth Club to the 1992 and
>2000 Republican National Conventions. From 1989 through March 1991, the
>period of German reunification and the final days of the Soviet Union, she
>served in the Bush Administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of
>Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council, and a
>Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. In 1986,
>while an international affairs fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations,
>she served as Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of
>Staff. In 1997, she served on the Federal Advisory Committee on Gender --
>Integrated Training in the Military. She was ! a member of the boards of
>directors for the Chevron Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the
>William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the
>International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco Symphony
>Board of Governors. She was a Founding Board member of the Center for a New
>Generation, an educational support fund for schools in East Palo Alto and
>East Menlo Park, California and was Vice President of the Boys and Girls
>Club of the Peninsula. In addition, her past board service has encompassed
>such organizations as Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the
>Carnegie Corporation, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, The Rand
>Corporation, the National Council for Soviet and East European Studies, the
>Mid-Peninsula Urban Coalition and KQED, public broadcasting for San
>Francisco. Born November 14, 1954 in Birmingham, Alabama, she resides in
>Washington, D.C.
>
>So who are these celebrities? What is their education? What is their
>experience in affairs of State or in National Security? While I will defend
>to the death their right to express their opinions, I think that if they are
>going to call into question the intelligence of our leaders, we should also
>have all the facts on their educations and background:
>
>Barbra Streisand : Completed high school Career: Singing and acting
>
>Cher: Dropped out of school in 9th grade. Career: Singing and acting
>
>Martin Sheen: Flunked exam to enter University of Dayton.Career:Acting
>
>Jessica Lange: Dropped out college mid-freshman year. Career: Acting
>
>Alec Baldwin: Dropped out of George Washington U. after scandal.
>Career:Acting
>
>Julia Roberts: Completed high school. Career: Acting
>
>Sean Penn: Completed High school. Career: Acting
>
>Susan Sarandon: Degree in Drama from Catholic University of America in
>Washington, D.C. Career: Acting
>
>Ed Asner; Completed High school. Career: Acting
>
>George Clooney: Dropped out of University of Kentucky. Career: Acting
>
>Michael Moore: Dropped out first year University of Michigan. Career:Movie
>Director
>
>Sarah Jessica Parker: Completed High School. Career: Acting
>
>Jennifer Anniston: Completed High School. Career: Acting
>
>Mike Farrell: Completed High school. Career: Acting
>
>Janeane Garofelo: Dropped out of College. Career: Stand up comedienne
>
>Larry Hagman: Attended Bard College for one year. Career: Acting
>
>
Humty72
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2002
- Posts
- 143
may apply part 2 of 2
>While comparing the education and experience of these two groups, we should
>also remember that President Bush and his cabinet are briefed daily, even
>hourly, on the War on Terror and threats to our security. They are privy to
>information gathered around the world concerning the Middle East, the
>threats to America, the intentions of terrorists and terrorist-supporting
>governments. They are in constant communication with the CIA, the FBI,
>Interpol, NATO, The United Nations, our own military, and that of our allies
>around the world. We cannot simply believe that we have full knowledge of
>the threats because we watch CNN!! We cannot believe that we are in any way
>as informed as our leaders.
>
>These celebrities have no intelligence-gathering agents, no fact-finding
>groups, no insight into the minds of those who would destroy our country.
>They only have a deep seated hatred for all things Republican. By nature,
>and no one knows quite why, the Hollywood elitists detest Conservative views
>and anything that supports or uplifts the United States of America. The
>silence was deafening from the Left when Bill Clinton bombed a
>pharmaceutical factory outside of Khartoum, or when he attacked the Bosnian
>Serbs in 1995 and 1999. He bombed Serbia itself to get Slobodan Milosevic
>out of Kosovo, and not a single peace rally was held. When our Rangers were
>ambushed in Somalia and 18 young American lives were lost, not a peep was
>heard from Hollywood. Yet now, after our nation has been attacked on its own
>soil, after 3,000 Americans were killed, by freedom-hating terrorists, while
>going about their routine lives, they want to hold rallies against the war.
>Why the change? Because an honest, God-fearing Republican sits in the White
>House.
>
>Another irony is that in 1987, when Ronald Reagan was in office, the
>Hollywood group aligned themselves with disarmament groups like SANE, FREEZE
>and PEACE ACTION, urging our own government to disarm and freeze the
>manufacturing of any further nuclear weapons, in order to promote world
>peace. It is curious that now, even after we have heard all the evidence
>that Saddam Hussein has chemical, biological and is very close to obtaining
>nuclear weapons, their is no cry from this group for HIM to disarm. They
>believe we should leave him alone in his quest for these weapons of mass
>destruction, even though it is certain that these deadly weapons will
>eventually be used against us in our own cities.
>
>So why the hype out of Hollywood? Could these celebrities believe that since
>they draw such astronomical salaries, they are entitled to also determine
>the course of our Nation? That they can make viable decisions concerning war
>and peace? Did Michael Moore have the backing of the Nation when he recently
>thanked France, on our behalf, for being a "good enough friend to tell us we
>were wrong"? I know for certain he was not speaking for me. Does Sean Penn
>fancy himself a Diplomat, in going to Iraq when we are just weeks away from
>war? Does he believe that his High School Diploma gives him the knowledge
>(and the right) to go to a country that is controlled by a maniacal
>dictator, and speak on behalf of the American people? Or is it the fact that
>he pulls in more money per year than the average American worker will see in
>a lifetime? Does his bank account give him clout?
>
>The ultimate irony is that many of these celebrities have made a shambles of
>their own lives, with drug abuse, alcoholism, numerous marriages and
>divorces, scrapes with the law, publicized temper tantrums, etc. How dare
>they pretend to know what is best for an entire nation! What is even more
>bizarre is how many people in this country will listen and accept their
>views, simply because they liked them in a certain movie, or have fond
>memories of an old television sitcom!
>
>It is time for us, as citizens of the United States, to educate ourselves
>about the world around us. If future generations are going to enjoy the
>freedoms that our forefathers bequeathed us, if they are ever to know peace
>in their own country and their world, to live without fear of terrorism
>striking in their own cities, we must assure that this nation remains
>strong. We must make certain that those who would destroy us are made aware
>of the severe consequences that will befall them.
>
>Yes, it is a wonderful dream to sit down with dictators and terrorists and
>join hands, singing Cumbaya and talking of world peace. But it is not real.
>We did not stop Adolf Hitler from taking over the entire continent of Europe
>by simply talking to him. We sent our best and brightest, with the strength
>and determination that this Country is known for, and defeated the Nazi
>regime. President John F. Kennedy did not stop the Soviet ships from
>unloading their nuclear missiles in Cuba in 1962 with mere words. He stopped
>them with action, and threat of
>immediate war if the ships did not turn around. We did not end the Cold War
>with conferences. It ended with the strong belief of President
>Ronald Reagan... PEACE through STRENGTH.
>While comparing the education and experience of these two groups, we should
>also remember that President Bush and his cabinet are briefed daily, even
>hourly, on the War on Terror and threats to our security. They are privy to
>information gathered around the world concerning the Middle East, the
>threats to America, the intentions of terrorists and terrorist-supporting
>governments. They are in constant communication with the CIA, the FBI,
>Interpol, NATO, The United Nations, our own military, and that of our allies
>around the world. We cannot simply believe that we have full knowledge of
>the threats because we watch CNN!! We cannot believe that we are in any way
>as informed as our leaders.
>
>These celebrities have no intelligence-gathering agents, no fact-finding
>groups, no insight into the minds of those who would destroy our country.
>They only have a deep seated hatred for all things Republican. By nature,
>and no one knows quite why, the Hollywood elitists detest Conservative views
>and anything that supports or uplifts the United States of America. The
>silence was deafening from the Left when Bill Clinton bombed a
>pharmaceutical factory outside of Khartoum, or when he attacked the Bosnian
>Serbs in 1995 and 1999. He bombed Serbia itself to get Slobodan Milosevic
>out of Kosovo, and not a single peace rally was held. When our Rangers were
>ambushed in Somalia and 18 young American lives were lost, not a peep was
>heard from Hollywood. Yet now, after our nation has been attacked on its own
>soil, after 3,000 Americans were killed, by freedom-hating terrorists, while
>going about their routine lives, they want to hold rallies against the war.
>Why the change? Because an honest, God-fearing Republican sits in the White
>House.
>
>Another irony is that in 1987, when Ronald Reagan was in office, the
>Hollywood group aligned themselves with disarmament groups like SANE, FREEZE
>and PEACE ACTION, urging our own government to disarm and freeze the
>manufacturing of any further nuclear weapons, in order to promote world
>peace. It is curious that now, even after we have heard all the evidence
>that Saddam Hussein has chemical, biological and is very close to obtaining
>nuclear weapons, their is no cry from this group for HIM to disarm. They
>believe we should leave him alone in his quest for these weapons of mass
>destruction, even though it is certain that these deadly weapons will
>eventually be used against us in our own cities.
>
>So why the hype out of Hollywood? Could these celebrities believe that since
>they draw such astronomical salaries, they are entitled to also determine
>the course of our Nation? That they can make viable decisions concerning war
>and peace? Did Michael Moore have the backing of the Nation when he recently
>thanked France, on our behalf, for being a "good enough friend to tell us we
>were wrong"? I know for certain he was not speaking for me. Does Sean Penn
>fancy himself a Diplomat, in going to Iraq when we are just weeks away from
>war? Does he believe that his High School Diploma gives him the knowledge
>(and the right) to go to a country that is controlled by a maniacal
>dictator, and speak on behalf of the American people? Or is it the fact that
>he pulls in more money per year than the average American worker will see in
>a lifetime? Does his bank account give him clout?
>
>The ultimate irony is that many of these celebrities have made a shambles of
>their own lives, with drug abuse, alcoholism, numerous marriages and
>divorces, scrapes with the law, publicized temper tantrums, etc. How dare
>they pretend to know what is best for an entire nation! What is even more
>bizarre is how many people in this country will listen and accept their
>views, simply because they liked them in a certain movie, or have fond
>memories of an old television sitcom!
>
>It is time for us, as citizens of the United States, to educate ourselves
>about the world around us. If future generations are going to enjoy the
>freedoms that our forefathers bequeathed us, if they are ever to know peace
>in their own country and their world, to live without fear of terrorism
>striking in their own cities, we must assure that this nation remains
>strong. We must make certain that those who would destroy us are made aware
>of the severe consequences that will befall them.
>
>Yes, it is a wonderful dream to sit down with dictators and terrorists and
>join hands, singing Cumbaya and talking of world peace. But it is not real.
>We did not stop Adolf Hitler from taking over the entire continent of Europe
>by simply talking to him. We sent our best and brightest, with the strength
>and determination that this Country is known for, and defeated the Nazi
>regime. President John F. Kennedy did not stop the Soviet ships from
>unloading their nuclear missiles in Cuba in 1962 with mere words. He stopped
>them with action, and threat of
>immediate war if the ships did not turn around. We did not end the Cold War
>with conferences. It ended with the strong belief of President
>Ronald Reagan... PEACE through STRENGTH.
Chickenhawk
Comedian
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I think it's sad that we as Americans are so brainwashed by the White House rhetoric that we changed our minds so quickly. Before the bombs fell, over 60% of Americans opposed the war. Now, over 60% are in favor, and we're publicly crucifying a singer for speaking her mind.
It's sad that we have gotten to the point where we punish people for speaking their minds. Being able to speak your mind is what America was founded on. That's freedom. You don't have to agree with Ms Maines, but you don't have to punish her by boycotting her. Frankly, I find that extremely childish to do so.
Boeingman says he "ordered their music removed from his clubs". I say I hope someone at the controls of a heavy Boeing has more maturity than that.
I just went and bought their new CD. It's great. I'm also calling my local radio stations to request their songs.
I disagree with Ms Maines's statement , but support her for having the courage to speak up.
We need more people with that courage and less who are willing to march in lockstep just because their government tells them they should.
That kind of thing happened in Germany in the late 1930s too.
It's sad that we have gotten to the point where we punish people for speaking their minds. Being able to speak your mind is what America was founded on. That's freedom. You don't have to agree with Ms Maines, but you don't have to punish her by boycotting her. Frankly, I find that extremely childish to do so.
Boeingman says he "ordered their music removed from his clubs". I say I hope someone at the controls of a heavy Boeing has more maturity than that.
I just went and bought their new CD. It's great. I'm also calling my local radio stations to request their songs.
I disagree with Ms Maines's statement , but support her for having the courage to speak up.
We need more people with that courage and less who are willing to march in lockstep just because their government tells them they should.
That kind of thing happened in Germany in the late 1930s too.
midlifeflyer
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ifly4food said:
I don't think that anyone in this group that's read my posts on the Bush War will think I'm a conservative, but I have to disagree with you.
A boycott is a form of political protest. Doesn't matter whether it's boycotting lettuce grown on farms that pay migrant workers starvation wages or the records of a performer that takes a stand that you disagree with. And to encourage others to do so as well.
________________
If you always assume that there are morons on both sides of every issue, you will never be disappointed.
Ty Webb
Hostage to Fortune
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Originally posted by ifly4food
I think it's sad that we as Americans are so brainwashed by the White House rhetoric that we changed our minds so quickly. Before the bombs fell, over 60% of Americans opposed the war. Now, over 60% are in favor
Did you ever think that maybe it is you who are brainwashed by the media, nearly all of whom have a strong anti-war bias? The numbers are more like 75% in favor, right now, and it is not because of rhetoric.
, and we're publicly crucifying a singer for speaking her mind.
Wake up, IFF. Freedom of speech does NOT mean that the people who hear that speech won't become angry and do some "speaking" themselves . . . . and that is what happened here.
It's sad that we have gotten to the point where we punish people for speaking their minds. Being able to speak your mind is what America was founded on. That's freedom. You don't have to agree with Ms Maines, but you don't have to punish her by boycotting her.
Maines used her forum as a singer to state her message. Her audience can't get up on stage and grab the mike to rebut her remarks, so they are sending their message through the means available to them . .. It's not "punishing" her.
I just went and bought their new CD. It's great. I'm also calling my local radio stations to request their songs.
Don't you see the hypocrisy of what you are saying? You agreed with her, so you called radio stations, and bought their CD. The others disagreed with her, and refused to buy her CD and called radio stations to complain.
We need more people with that courage and less who are willing to march in lockstep just because their government tells them they should.
Dude, drop the hackey-sack, and look around you. You are being manipulated. There were more civilians dying in Iraq each week before this campaign than during (source: NPR!). Those countries who went against us have huge economic and political reasons to do so, completely unrelated to the Iraqi people.
Maybe you should spend a little more time reading about the real facts of what is going on in the Middle East, and a little less time drinking wine coolers and listening to some singing airheads.
I think it's sad that we as Americans are so brainwashed by the White House rhetoric that we changed our minds so quickly. Before the bombs fell, over 60% of Americans opposed the war. Now, over 60% are in favor
Did you ever think that maybe it is you who are brainwashed by the media, nearly all of whom have a strong anti-war bias? The numbers are more like 75% in favor, right now, and it is not because of rhetoric.
, and we're publicly crucifying a singer for speaking her mind.
Wake up, IFF. Freedom of speech does NOT mean that the people who hear that speech won't become angry and do some "speaking" themselves . . . . and that is what happened here.
It's sad that we have gotten to the point where we punish people for speaking their minds. Being able to speak your mind is what America was founded on. That's freedom. You don't have to agree with Ms Maines, but you don't have to punish her by boycotting her.
Maines used her forum as a singer to state her message. Her audience can't get up on stage and grab the mike to rebut her remarks, so they are sending their message through the means available to them . .. It's not "punishing" her.
I just went and bought their new CD. It's great. I'm also calling my local radio stations to request their songs.
Don't you see the hypocrisy of what you are saying? You agreed with her, so you called radio stations, and bought their CD. The others disagreed with her, and refused to buy her CD and called radio stations to complain.
We need more people with that courage and less who are willing to march in lockstep just because their government tells them they should.
Dude, drop the hackey-sack, and look around you. You are being manipulated. There were more civilians dying in Iraq each week before this campaign than during (source: NPR!). Those countries who went against us have huge economic and political reasons to do so, completely unrelated to the Iraqi people.
Maybe you should spend a little more time reading about the real facts of what is going on in the Middle East, and a little less time drinking wine coolers and listening to some singing airheads.
Last edited:
Buffettpilot
"was that for us?"
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2002
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- 46
Here is something folks might want to think about.
You say what you mean, then you stand behind your words!!!!
Why would you say something, then after a backlash, recant your quote. The Ditsy Chicks did just that. Talk of being ashamed that the president is from texas, then the following day say....opps, I'm sorry, I didn't mean that, I support the president, etc....
If you are going to say something, stand behind your word. Don't just waffle around on your beliefs because you think it might effect your album and concert sales.
You say what you mean, then you stand behind your words!!!!
Why would you say something, then after a backlash, recant your quote. The Ditsy Chicks did just that. Talk of being ashamed that the president is from texas, then the following day say....opps, I'm sorry, I didn't mean that, I support the president, etc....
If you are going to say something, stand behind your word. Don't just waffle around on your beliefs because you think it might effect your album and concert sales.
HueyPilot
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- Nov 26, 2001
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Our allies
Reasons why our "allies" aren't with us....
France- Since as early as 1996, France (along with Russia...suprised?) advocated a total lift of the sanctions on the Hussein regime. The reason? There were millions of Francs locked up in Iraqi oil deals put on hiatus because of the sanctions, and Iraq was one of Dassault/Aerospatiale/Eurocopter's better Middle Eastern clients.
Russia- Not suprising, there was quite a bit of illegal sales of Iraqi oil outside the "Oil for Food" program. Of course Iraq couldn't do this by themselves....help came in part through a smuggling cartel that involved Jordanian and Syrian business interests, and a Russian oil production firm that helped Iraq sell illegal Iraqi oil to the Russian federation. Russia has always had close oil ties with Iraq, going back to the USSR days. And upon the end of the 1991 war, the USSR lost out on unfullfilled oil deals, as well as having to deal with a now-bankrupt Iraq that was unable to repay Russia the millions of dollars Iraq owed it from providing the bulk of Hussein's military might in the form of tanks, airplanes, guns, cannons, missiles and other hardware. Russia also lost out on the lucrative support and maintenance deals to repair all this equipment because the sanctions also banned these as well. So, Russia has a significant financial interest in Iraq (and the Hussein regime in particular).
Germany- Schroeder was facing a possible defeat, until W. saved him. Yes, our G. W. Bush. Germany had been experiencing one of the more serious economic downturns in German recent history, and Schroeder's administration was taking alot of heat for it. Then came talk of war in Iraq, and the German people, who in the past 50 years have always been hesitant to commit to war (even in 1991, they only provided limited support compared to other allies). Schroeder hit upon this as his re-election platform, to brush the economy under the rug for now and focus on the anti-war stance. This won him a slim victory in Germany, and since then he has continued to push the anti-war rhetoric while in the backstage has frantically tried to fix the economy, so far to no avail. One wonders if Germany would have been so inflexible had it not been those circumstances. Germany has always leaned anti-war since WWII, so the fact that they oppose the war isn't too suprising...but the vigor with which Schroeder attacked this issue smacks of political maneuvering to resurrect his ailing administration.
China- Gee, this is a no-brainer. China opposed the 1991 Gulf War too, so it's not suprising at all to expect the Chinese government to oppose this one. And since when has China ever been an "ally"? It's openly stated by Chinese doctrine that they fully expect to become the new super power to balance the USA.
Alot of jokes have been made of the "coalition of the willing". Granted, many of the countries are there as garnishing. But some of the countries, while not political heavyweights like the French and Russian, do hold sway within NATO, and are at least moderately affluent on the world power stage. Spain, Italy, Australia, UK, Japan are all countries with a decent amount of credibility. Add in rapidly growing and developing countries like Bulgaria, Hungary, and Poland (who are on the way to becoming influential within the EU...so long as France doesn't "black ball" them), and the list does show at least a moderate amount of support.
Reasons why our "allies" aren't with us....
France- Since as early as 1996, France (along with Russia...suprised?) advocated a total lift of the sanctions on the Hussein regime. The reason? There were millions of Francs locked up in Iraqi oil deals put on hiatus because of the sanctions, and Iraq was one of Dassault/Aerospatiale/Eurocopter's better Middle Eastern clients.
Russia- Not suprising, there was quite a bit of illegal sales of Iraqi oil outside the "Oil for Food" program. Of course Iraq couldn't do this by themselves....help came in part through a smuggling cartel that involved Jordanian and Syrian business interests, and a Russian oil production firm that helped Iraq sell illegal Iraqi oil to the Russian federation. Russia has always had close oil ties with Iraq, going back to the USSR days. And upon the end of the 1991 war, the USSR lost out on unfullfilled oil deals, as well as having to deal with a now-bankrupt Iraq that was unable to repay Russia the millions of dollars Iraq owed it from providing the bulk of Hussein's military might in the form of tanks, airplanes, guns, cannons, missiles and other hardware. Russia also lost out on the lucrative support and maintenance deals to repair all this equipment because the sanctions also banned these as well. So, Russia has a significant financial interest in Iraq (and the Hussein regime in particular).
Germany- Schroeder was facing a possible defeat, until W. saved him. Yes, our G. W. Bush. Germany had been experiencing one of the more serious economic downturns in German recent history, and Schroeder's administration was taking alot of heat for it. Then came talk of war in Iraq, and the German people, who in the past 50 years have always been hesitant to commit to war (even in 1991, they only provided limited support compared to other allies). Schroeder hit upon this as his re-election platform, to brush the economy under the rug for now and focus on the anti-war stance. This won him a slim victory in Germany, and since then he has continued to push the anti-war rhetoric while in the backstage has frantically tried to fix the economy, so far to no avail. One wonders if Germany would have been so inflexible had it not been those circumstances. Germany has always leaned anti-war since WWII, so the fact that they oppose the war isn't too suprising...but the vigor with which Schroeder attacked this issue smacks of political maneuvering to resurrect his ailing administration.
China- Gee, this is a no-brainer. China opposed the 1991 Gulf War too, so it's not suprising at all to expect the Chinese government to oppose this one. And since when has China ever been an "ally"? It's openly stated by Chinese doctrine that they fully expect to become the new super power to balance the USA.
Alot of jokes have been made of the "coalition of the willing". Granted, many of the countries are there as garnishing. But some of the countries, while not political heavyweights like the French and Russian, do hold sway within NATO, and are at least moderately affluent on the world power stage. Spain, Italy, Australia, UK, Japan are all countries with a decent amount of credibility. Add in rapidly growing and developing countries like Bulgaria, Hungary, and Poland (who are on the way to becoming influential within the EU...so long as France doesn't "black ball" them), and the list does show at least a moderate amount of support.
ArcticFlier
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ArcticFlier
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HueyPilot
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For the war does not = afraid to serve
It was that quote by Toecutter that got to me....somehow if you advocate this war, you're a "chickenhawk", and they assume (wrongly) that most of us harbor a phobia of wearing the uniform. I've worn it for 11 years. I just got notified I'm going to deploy over there in the near future, so spare me the whole "you are for war but afraid to serve" garbage.
Truth be told, 90% of those opposed to the war have the benefit of doing so from their living room armchairs. So you can stop lecturing me on how I'm a "chickenhawk" as I pack my bags for my "undisclosed location".
It was that quote by Toecutter that got to me....somehow if you advocate this war, you're a "chickenhawk", and they assume (wrongly) that most of us harbor a phobia of wearing the uniform. I've worn it for 11 years. I just got notified I'm going to deploy over there in the near future, so spare me the whole "you are for war but afraid to serve" garbage.
Truth be told, 90% of those opposed to the war have the benefit of doing so from their living room armchairs. So you can stop lecturing me on how I'm a "chickenhawk" as I pack my bags for my "undisclosed location".
ArcticFlier
SpdmodehdgmodebugV21/2bnk
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Yeah, really brave of Ms. Maines to spout that verbal fecal matter off to a bunch of bee-bop Brits. I'd like to see her try that in her home state to see how many of her fans agree with her. She thought she'd just try to endear herself to a sympathetic audience without repercussions from back home since they'd probably never hear the statement anyway. That's not brave. It's absolutely cowardly. Well now she's getting what she very well deserves. Her former fans are speaking their opinions just as Ms. Maines spoke hers. The difference is they are speaking with their wallets and their actions. Are you saying that they do not have the right to do so? They feel just as strongly against her statement as she does for it. So they are now the villains??ifly4food said:
To your first point...White House rhetoric?? Brainwashed?? Are you joking?? The White House is fighting an uphill battle against the press who can focus only on the negative. Despite this, poll after poll shows GROWTH in the President's support from the American public up to 73%. Even CNN admitted that the latest numbers were a reality check for them. For all rebuttals regarding media manipulation, please refer to Bias, by Bernie Goldberg. The 30-year CBS news veteran can lay it out much better than I can.
It's strange how the liberals are the only ones who think they are entitled to "speak their minds". Any opinions contrary to theirs are considered "immature", "punishing" and "crucifying".
I saw that idiot Janeane Garofalo on HBO last night. She was laying down some of the same hypocrisy.
Timebuilder
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Whew! For a minute there, I thought this applied to me. Luckily, I never used the 2-S deferment that I could have invoked, and took the risk of being 1-A for my time in "the pool". According to my friends in special ops, I was making the right move at the time.
On the UN: in the past 30 years, the UN has become a club for socialist nations, terrorists, and their appeasers. While trying to get the security council on board for this action, Bush finally had to make the hard choice and do what had to be done. What a refreshing change, to have a president who has a pair, sees his duty, and does it.
I'm not mad at the Dixie Chicks for speaking their mind. I'm frankly glad that they cleared up any misconceptions we might have had about their politics. I'm a little appalled that we can still produce young people who would say something so stupid.
While everyone is free to exercise their free speech right, a discerning and intelligent person will recognize when and where to exercise this right. Apparently, the Chicks made a poor decision. Perhaps they can feel better, knowing that they may become popular in France.
Perhaps they can do a double bill with Jerry Lewis.
ArcticFlier
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