An open letter to the pilots of Skywest

[XPOO]

................................ not worth it..................

Likewise

 

[Bushhatesyou]

Likewise

Yeah well.. Just like you're never going to convince a scab he is a piece of Sh!t. I have a feeling you are the same way.

 

[CFI2766]

I understand what he's saying. Its not Skywest Airlines who's made the offer for XJT, its the holding company, Skywest Inc. They also own ASA Airlines. But the post is only addressed to the Skywest pilots, not the ASA pilots who stand to benefit just as much from the acquisition.

How could an ASA pilot potentially benefit from this transaction? I HIGHLY doubt that ASA would be asked/tasked with setting up a new base at LAX, again. Is there some other benefit for the ASA pilot group that you were referring to?

 

[No.W.]

This thread cracks me up.

I appreciate the professionalism of the original poster. I voted for ALPA at OO. I was outvoted. What am I supposed to do? Go on strike by myself? Our power is in numbers, that's why we unionize. If the majority of my fellow pilots don't agree...that's democracy. Even if I wanted to move to another carrier...I'd lose all of my seniority...I've got 2200 pilots under me at SkyWest. Why would I take a chance of moving on(to a major or otherwise) in the current state of the industry.

I think it's accurate to lay the majority of blame for a company's fate with it's management. Sure, the employees have an effect, but if it wasn't for the tactics of SkyWest management(good or bad) we wouldn't be in a position to buy another airline. It really has nothing to do with what the empoyees do...union or not. Southwest has proven you can be successful in a tough environment WITH a union. SkyWest has shown you can be successful without. I submit that is because both companies have good management.

Perhaps Ream and company did their best...perhaps not. I know when I was at ExpressJet before 9/11 I was happy and it was a great place to work...AND appeared to be well managed. Perhaps luck plays a part as well. Perhaps being in the "right place" at the "right time" does as well. I don't know. I DO know that pilots are not even close to the top of the "blame-list" when these situations arise. No employee group is. The top of the list includes board members and people with three letters after their names(CEO, CFO, COO, etc.).

I know you are still going to blame the SkyWest Airlines pilots. That's fine.

Let me get this out of the way...since SkyWest Airlines is now taking center stage as the scape goat for all the industry's woes...

SkyWest SUCKS!!!

What a bunch of SCABS!!!

(said with tongue in cheek...but I figured I'd say it first).

 

[SSDD]

How could an ASA pilot potentially benefit from this transaction? I HIGHLY doubt that ASA would be asked/tasked with setting up a new base at LAX, again. Is there some other benefit for the ASA pilot group that you were referring to?

I'd venture to say that neither you or I know what potential benefits could come from this transaction for either ASA or Skywest. But the point is that singling one group out while not the other is hypocritical.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I'd venture to say that neither you or I know what potential benefits could come from this transaction for either ASA or Skywest. But the point is that singling one group out while not the other is hypocritical.

Well then I guess I'm pissed at Jack Nicholson. Who knows what kind of damage he might do to us!

 

[outtahere]

I swear...Pilots + Internet = retarded, 13 year old, West Side Story-style gang wannabes sometimes with the hatred towards one another.

As long as we are going to turn this into YET ANOTHER union debate...

Perhaps if ALPA national took a little time to UNIFY (novel concept for a union, eh?) all of its member pilot groups and get behind things like a national seniority list instead of pitting all of the member groups against each other in a massive clusterfark...maybe, just maybe, the pilots who don't have such a strained relationship with their
management would be more inclined to join.

Rez, you always talk about ALPA being as strong as the local leadership. As the outside man looking in, that tells me that national is weak. And, based solely on my conversations with friends that are pilots and what I read on this God-forsaken message board...it is the national, universal QOL issues that ALPA needs to be working on...and spending a little less time on the small things like the FFDO program and keeping Captain Kangaroo...er, I mean, Captain Prater's moustache so neatly trimmed.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud ALPA's work as a safety advocate...however, there apparently needs to be more work on actually taking care of the livelihoods of the current member pilots before even considering chasing more membership.

I think, when faced with the decision of whether or not to organize, the average pilot doesn't put alot of thought into ALPA's advocacy on The Hill...they look at the state of QOL of other ALPA pilots. And, when they see the messes of US Airways/America West...ALPA pilots losing jobs left and right...and the general lack of brotherhood and unity amongst all of the ALPA pilot groups...not to mention the "Me vs. The World" and general unhappiness with life
mentality conveyed by many ALPA pilots...and can you see why 2/3 of SkyWest pilots might not want to join up.

I wish nothing but the best for the ExpressJet guys and gals. I truly hope this doesn't go down the way you guys are saying. However, if it does...you must remember that this is business...and your management deserves the blame, not the SkyWest line pilot.

It is hard to disagree with this post. ALPA in concept is a great idea, but there needs to be some serious unification across the board. The problem with Skywest is not only do they compete to the detriment of other groups, they then spit in the face of the conquered groups and brag about the quick upgrade and how much better off they are than other groups. Skywest pilots will never have anything more than what an ALPA group of pilots vote in. So even though Skywest pilots may not make the decision for management, they make managements job so much easier by allowing the work rules to be manipulated at will. Personally, I will not go one extra step farther than legally required to help any Skywest pilot. If we are a pound over weight and a Skywest pilot wants the JS, I am sorry but we are over weight. That is just about as much help as you all have done for the rest of the industry. Just so you know, I would do anything I could to help a Mesa pilot, even though Mesa sucks, atleast they have a shot at bettering the situation they currently have.

 

[CFI2766]

I'd venture to say that neither you or I know what potential benefits could come from this transaction for either ASA or Skywest. But the point is that singling one group out while not the other is hypocritical.

Fair enough; I doubt either of us know of what potential benefits could come of this transaction for either ASA or Skywest.

However, it is not correct to point to any possible future misfortune to be suffered by the XJT guys as being brought about by the ASA pilot group. From just an average line-flying guy's perspective, we had no influence in the decision SKYW made to acquire XJT. Nothing hypocritical here.

 

[SSDD]

Fair enough; I doubt either of us know of what potential benefits could come of this transaction for either ASA or Skywest.

However, it is not correct to point to any possible future misfortune to be suffered by the XJT guys as being brought about by the ASA pilot group. From just an average line-flying guy's perspective, we had no influence in the decision SKYW made to acquire XJT. Nothing hypocritical here.

Agreed. But neither do Skywest pilots! That's my point! ASA is as much a part of Skywest Inc., as Skywest Airlines

 

[whosurdaddy?]

It is hard to disagree with this post. ALPA in concept is a great idea, but there needs to be some serious unification across the board. The problem with Skywest is not only do they compete to the detriment of other groups, they then spit in the face of the conquered groups and brag about the quick upgrade and how much better off they are than other groups. Skywest pilots will never have anything more than what an ALPA group of pilots vote in. So even though Skywest pilots may not make the decision for management, they make managements job so much easier by allowing the work rules to be manipulated at will. Personally, I will not go one extra step farther than legally required to help any Skywest pilot. If we are a pound over weight and a Skywest pilot wants the JS, I am sorry but we are over weight. That is just about as much help as you all have done for the rest of the industry. Just so you know, I would do anything I could to help a Mesa pilot, even though Mesa sucks, atleast they have a shot at bettering the situation they currently have.

You are such a loser, nothing like helping get somebody home to see their family. you sir are what's wrong in this world. please blame all the woes of the aviation industry on a group of pilots who choose not to be represented by a union. we are regional airline pilots, get over yourselfs!!! if denying a jumpseat helps you sleep at night that's fine. skywest pilots will continue to help other pilots from other companies get home to their family and friends.

 

[AWACoff]

skywest pilots will continue to screw other pilots from other companies and their family and friends.

FIXED!

I am sure there are many that will enjoy dancing on Skywest's grave when the day comes. Enjoy the ride because it won't last forever. Oh, and Joseph Smith was a child molesting fraud.

 

[kj6991]

It is hard to disagree with this post. ALPA in concept is a great idea, but there needs to be some serious unification across the board. The problem with Skywest is not only do they compete to the detriment of other groups, they then spit in the face of the conquered groups and brag about the quick upgrade and how much better off they are than other groups. Skywest pilots will never have anything more than what an ALPA group of pilots vote in. So even though Skywest pilots may not make the decision for management, they make managements job so much easier by allowing the work rules to be manipulated at will. Personally, I will not go one extra step farther than legally required to help any Skywest pilot. If we are a pound over weight and a Skywest pilot wants the JS, I am sorry but we are over weight. That is just about as much help as you all have done for the rest of the industry. Just so you know, I would do anything I could to help a Mesa pilot, even though Mesa sucks, atleast they have a shot at bettering the situation they currently have.

Weird.... I guess if that ALPA vote went through we could have good work rules like Mesa. Also what's weird about that is my good friend has been there for 5 years and says it's absolutely as miserable as ever.

You wouldn't try to get one of our jumpseaters to work or home from a trip... then don't. Considering 99% of captains here would probably go out of their way to get you on. So be it

1/2 to 3/4 of my fo's come from previous ALPA airlines. All say the same thing with regards to being here as opposed to their previous airline. "It's like night and day."

 

[HockleyPilot]

Here is my take on the situation. You can tell me to STFU and that's fine.

I think that you XJT pilots are some of the cockiest pilots out there. My friends that I talk to on a regular basis tell me the same thing, looking inward. That's not necessarily a bad thing...But, here I believe it is.

SkyWest Airlines, the only thing I can think of negatively about working here, that others are mad about (other than non-union), is that the 1000 or so, original pilots voted to fly 50 for 70 rates. They were duped. Maybe some weren't. I didn't vote for it (I wasn't here and frankly knew nothing about the situation at the time), but I did come to SKW and gained because of it. (You could have come to SKW just as easy during that time too). You can also say we grew at ACA's and Air Whiskey's expense. Only partially true.
The other growth was from UAL and DAL caving on scope. Again, you could have come to SKW at that time to jump in on it, but, that's neither here nor there.

Back to the orginal topic.

I fly on CAL/Express every week and the same idea rings true. You are a strong pilot group and take no prisoners. You have a "industry leading contract" and have a quality operation....Good metrics, etc. And I have to agree.

I also,tend to believe most XJT pilots are out of touch with the reality that we aren't in the booming days of the 90's airline travel where the regional pilots could name a price and MGT would bid with that number accordingly.

Here's why I believe that without emotion involved.

You work under CAL. They haven't been in bankruptcy since most of you have been there. They haven't seen bad times since Gordon turned it around. They run a real airline with mostly, properly staffed ground crews, agents, and other airline people. They have the right equipment on the right routes. They want to give their customers safe, quality, and efficient air travel. You have the support you need (mostly).

Are there some hiccups in your ops? Sure, I have witnessed them first hand in IAH on the Brasilia. Again, I ask my friends how things work around there.....You have it good.....

You haven't worked for a bankrupt UAL. You haven't been asked to make lemonade out of apples. You haven't been squeezed for quality and efficiency that UAL and DAL has asked for. I know ya'll fly a few planes for DAL and had temporary flights in IAD. That is nothing. On a grand scale of things, you don't know what it's like being a DAL or UAL regional. You only have CAL.

You know that CAL tries to do things right.....atleast attempts to. UAL just says please do it this way, even if it's unrealistic. 24 minute turns with a crew swap. We do it. Help with seat belts, we do it. Throw some bags, we do it.....etc...etc...

I watch as you get to the hub and the cleaning lady comes on and cleans while the aircraft turn is 45 minutes.
That sure would be nice, but UAL told SKW to getter done', so SKW asked us to do it and we delivered. (Now, I know some wlll say, that a union will prevent us from doing things like seatbelts or trash, etc., and while I don't like doing seatbelts, I don't HAVE to, it's not in my job description and if the FA is a bitch, she doesn't get any help.) All I am saying is that we have been flexible and so far we have been (mostly) rewarded. Union or not. (BTW, I voted for ALPA and again, I am only one vote). Regardless, this isn't about a union or not. To me, is is about facts and real life logistics.

So, yes, I do think you are out of touch with today's airline reality. Another reason I believe that is that you keep saying SKW is backstabbing you by dealing with CAL directly. How is that underhanded? By ensuring placement of your AC with a SKW buyout? Darn, being bought by a stable company and keep your contracts? Geez. Sounds good to me.... Oh, but branded is going to go away. Well, you should know by now, that the branded is going away no matter what happens. INDY AIR 2, regardless of how well the product is, is not going to work.
Here in the 2008 market, $120 oil is dooming ALL airplanes, so your shi-t can stink, even if you give free BJ's and hand jobs. It's just reality. If we wanted daydream and think that as long as we have a quality product we will make it...that's fine. But then you would have Frontier making hand over fist while UAL mainline would be gone 4 years ago. Unfortunately, that just ain't just how it is.

So Jerry wants to eat your scope. Ok. I would love to have your scope, but it won't happen. Jerry wants flexibility. He needs it from you. Do I drink the SGU koolaid? No, but they do a damn good job of running an airline. I am very vocal about pointing out some of our shortcomings and will discuss them anytime. I just don't think that they (Jerry, et al.)have given you the big FU like some of you think. And it also seems on "the pipe", some of your own think that way too.

I just don't see how being noble and "fight the good fight" till the last day does your child or wife/husband any good in today's reality. Again, I don't condone it, but I can only work with what has been presented to me. I can't just live in the clouds and demand unrealistis things. But that's just me. I want better pay and I want better schedules. I want security and all things associated, but everything has a fine line. SkyWest works the line. But when the opportunity presents itself, we need to push the line up. Now isn't the time.

Ask most INDY pilots and they say, "you know, I took the moral stand and now I am on my 3rd regional". They took UAL on it's bluff and UAL showed them how easily a contract carrier could be replaced. We at SKW are no different. We could be the next ACA. But, we have to try to keep UAL and DAL happy, keep the quality up, and be as efficient as possbile.

So it's up for you to decide what the "correct" thing is for you. As for most SKW pilots "getting wood" as some of you have put it, for INC. to buy XJT, well that's just politcal propaganda.

It will do NO good for the pilots of SKW Airlines for SKYWEST INC. to buy you. Again, we at SkyWest Airlines have 0 to benefit from by Jerry and the boys buying you out.

Unless you have stock totals like Jerry and the boys, it's moot..... It would be more benificial for us for you to lose the CAL contract and then INC. bid on it for SAW Air. But Jerry and his boys want to make more money, like they do with ASA under the umbrella. It's their business. They are playing monopoly.

Like I said, the only thing I can see is the 50 for 70 argument and it was wrong. I could have held out and said, No, I am not going to work for SKW because I will not fly the 70 for 50. I could avoid bidding it on principle. But in life, it seems that if I didn't bid it or didn't come to SKW, guess what....There is another number behind me ready to do it if I don't. It isn't quite the moral delimma some make it out to be.

I got lucky (for now), I chose SKW. I could be at ASA, XJT, Comair, Republic/Chataqua/Shuttle, Mesa, PSA, or any other regional. Like I said, I got lucky that "so far", we have been sucessful.

In closing I am not writing this to be proud, boastful, or hurtful to you guys. I am offering my opinion when some asked. I think you have a quality operation with quality people. I wish we all could be beer brothers and everything works out best for all. I bet UAL, Braniff, TWA, and Pan Am would have said the same thing 35 yrs ago. Unfortunately, in this industry there are some real bummer events.

Maybe solo, XJT can still pull it out and that would be great too. But, I am just realist. So I tend to look at things that way.....And as it stands right now, you are bleeding. So Jerry is looking out for Jerry, and trying to make himself more money.

Again, I am not trying to start poop. That's how I see it and if I am wrong, I certainly do apoligize for it in advance.

 

[whosurdaddy?]

FIXED!

I am sure there are many that will enjoy dancing on Skywest's grave when the day comes. Enjoy the ride because it won't last forever. Oh, and Joseph Smith was a child molesting fraud.

way to change a quote, well done. if skywest goes to the grave doesn't that mean that everybody will then go to the grave. that also means that since we are "bottom-feeders" somebody would have to go lower, that must mean you!!!!! Bash mormons all you want, i'm not even one!!! plus i agree with that quote.

 

[mckpickle]

Here is my take on the situation. You can tell me to STFU and that's fine.

I think that you XJT pilots are some of the cockiest pilots out there. My friends that I talk to on a regular basis tell me the same thing, looking inward. That's not necessarily a bad thing...But, here I believe it is.

SkyWest Airlines, the only thing I can think of negatively about working here, that others are mad about (other than non-union), is that the 1000 or so, original pilots voted to fly 50 for 70 rates. They were duped. Maybe some weren't. I didn't vote for it (I wasn't here and frankly knew nothing about the situation at the time), but I did come to SKW and gained because of it. (You could have come to SKW just as easy during that time too). You can also say we grew at ACA's and Air Whiskey's expense. Only partially true.
The other growth was from UAL and DAL caving on scope. Again, you could have come to SKW at that time to jump in on it, but, that's neither here nor there.

Back to the orginal topic.

I fly on CAL/Express every week and the same idea rings true. You are a strong pilot group and take no prisoners. You have a "industry leading contract" and have a quality operation....Good metrics, etc. And I have to agree.

I also,tend to believe most XJT pilots are out of touch with the reality that we aren't in the booming days of the 90's airline travel where the regional pilots could name a price and MGT would bid with that number accordingly.

Here's why I believe that without emotion involved.

You work under CAL. They haven't been in bankruptcy since most of you have been there. They haven't seen bad times since Gordon turned it around. They run a real airline with mostly, properly staffed ground crews, agents, and other airline people. They have the right equipment on the right routes. They want to give their customers safe, quality, and efficient air travel. You have the support you need (mostly).

Are there some hiccups in your ops? Sure, I have witnessed them first hand in IAH on the Brasilia. Again, I ask my friends how things work around there.....You have it good.....

You haven't worked for a bankrupt UAL. You haven't been asked to make lemonade out of apples. You haven't been squeezed for quality and efficiency that UAL and DAL has asked for. I know ya'll fly a few planes for DAL and had temporary flights in IAD. That is nothing. On a grand scale of things, you don't know what it's like being a DAL or UAL regional. You only have CAL.

You know that CAL tries to do things right.....atleast attempts to. UAL just says please do it this way, even if it's unrealistic. 24 minute turns with a crew swap. We do it. Help with seat belts, we do it. Throw some bags, we do it.....etc...etc...

I watch as you get to the hub and the cleaning lady comes on and cleans while the aircraft turn is 45 minutes.
That sure would be nice, but UAL told SKW to getter done', so SKW asked us to do it and we delivered. (Now, I know some wlll say, that a union will prevent us from doing things like seatbelts or trash, etc., and while I don't like doing seatbelts, I don't HAVE to, it's not in my job description and if the FA is a bitch, she doesn't get any help.) All I am saying is that we have been flexible and so far we have been (mostly) rewarded. Union or not. (BTW, I voted for ALPA and again, I am only one vote). Regardless, this isn't about a union or not. To me, is is about facts and real life logistics.

So, yes, I do think you are out of touch with today's airline reality. Another reason I believe that is that you keep saying SKW is backstabbing you by dealing with CAL directly. How is that underhanded? By ensuring placement of your AC with a SKW buyout? Darn, being bought by a stable company and keep your contracts? Geez. Sounds good to me.... Oh, but branded is going to go away. Well, you should know by now, that the branded is going away no matter what happens. INDY AIR 2, regardless of how well the product is, is not going to work.
Here in the 2008 market, $120 oil is dooming ALL airplanes, so your shi-t can stink, even if you give free BJ's and hand jobs. It's just reality. If we wanted daydream and think that as long as we have a quality product we will make it...that's fine. But then you would have Frontier making hand over fist while UAL mainline would be gone 4 years ago. Unfortunately, that just ain't just how it is.

So Jerry wants to eat your scope. Ok. I would love to have your scope, but it won't happen. Jerry wants flexibility. He needs it from you. Do I drink the SGU koolaid? No, but they do a damn good job of running an airline. I am very vocal about pointing out some of our shortcomings and will discuss them anytime. I just don't think that they (Jerry, et al.)have given you the big FU like some of you think. And it also seems on "the pipe", some of your own think that way too.

I just don't see how being noble and "fight the good fight" till the last day does your child or wife/husband any good in today's reality. Again, I don't condone it, but I can only work with what has been presented to me. I can't just live in the clouds and demand unrealistis things. But that's just me. I want better pay and I want better schedules. I want security and all things associated, but everything has a fine line. SkyWest works the line. But when the opportunity presents itself, we need to push the line up. Now isn't the time.

Ask most INDY pilots and they say, "you know, I took the moral stand and now I am on my 3rd regional". They took UAL on it's bluff and UAL showed them how easily a contract carrier could be replaced. We at SKW are no different. We could be the next ACA. But, we have to try to keep UAL and DAL happy, keep the quality up, and be as efficient as possbile.

So it's up for you to decide what the "correct" thing is for you. As for most SKW pilots "getting wood" as some of you have put it, for INC. to buy XJT, well that's just politcal propaganda.

It will do NO good for the pilots of SKW Airlines for SKYWEST INC. to buy you. Again, we at SkyWest Airlines have 0 to benefit from by Jerry and the boys buying you out.

Unless you have stock totals like Jerry and the boys, it's moot..... It would be more benificial for us for you to lose the CAL contract and then INC. bid on it for SAW Air. But Jerry and his boys want to make more money, like they do with ASA under the umbrella. It's their business. They are playing monopoly.

Like I said, the only thing I can see is the 50 for 70 argument and it was wrong. I could have held out and said, No, I am not going to work for SKW because I will not fly the 70 for 50. I could avoid bidding it on principle. But in life, it seems that if I didn't bid it or didn't come to SKW, guess what....There is another number behind me ready to do it if I don't. It isn't quite the moral delimma some make it out to be.

I got lucky (for now), I chose SKW. I could be at ASA, XJT, Comair, Republic/Chataqua/Shuttle, Mesa, PSA, or any other regional. Like I said, I got lucky that "so far", we have been sucessful.

In closing I am not writing this to be proud, boastful, or hurtful to you guys. I am offering my opinion when some asked. I think you have a quality operation with quality people. I wish we all could be beer brothers and everything works out best for all. I bet UAL, Braniff, TWA, and Pan Am would have said the same thing 35 yrs ago. Unfortunately, in this industry there are some real bummer events.

Maybe solo, XJT can still pull it out and that would be great too. But, I am just realist. So I tend to look at things that way.....And as it stands right now, you are bleeding. So Jerry is looking out for Jerry, and trying to make himself more money.

Again, I am not trying to start poop. That's how I see it and if I am wrong, I certainly do apoligize for it in advance.

Everyone read this. Then reread this, and then read it again.

This thinking fellow pilots, is the reason why we will never take our place as professionals in the industry. We will continue to be beat down by management while you THINK it is impossible to negotiate job protection.

I weep as what you, my fellow pilots, have allowed this industry to become.

 

[erikgigem]

We have negotiated this to protect us AND the pilots we affect in the indutry. In fact our union was working with protecting MESA pilots in the event that we took some of their flying from Delta. Why? Because it's the right thing to do. Those are the things we've done to improve the profession.

What are your thoughts?

While we all moan about our unions - unions are an asset for job protection from unfair management decisions and making sure (hopefully) the right thing is being done (by the company).

I applaud this because we cannot allow any codeshare or regional to leverage the pilot groups based on who gets paid the least. Healthy compeitition between the regionals in the free market should come from (1) a quality product (safety record, ontime performance, completiion factor, etc..) (2) reliability and (3) quality service to the customer.

 

[Superpilot92]

All the XJT pilots have to do is VOTE NO! Giving up scope isnt worth letting skywest whipsaw you all while furloughing XJT pilots and "offering" pref, interviews for you to start all over at hte same company that just furloughed you. absolute BS and that is why a union is needed, so to stop whipsawing. Whipsawing is mgmts wet dream for keeping regional pay down. Until everyone sees that then it wont get any better. ALPA has its problems but they are a necessary evil in this industry. The real shame is everytime a regional "peaks" they instantly become a target. Look at the history of the "good" regionals, they get really big and do really well and then before you know it the cycle comes full circle. Vote NO! Good luck XJT

 

[HockleyPilot]

Mcpickle, I certainly understand what you are saying....Again, I really do. And if I read this as a XJT pilot, I would probably say the same thing.


But, you act like there is a VIABLE alternative to the situation. You look down on me because I am realistic about today's industry. I would love to take a stand if there is even a snowball's chance in hell it would work.......But right now is not the time.

You want to be a regional but act like a Major with regards to it's power. You have none! CAL/UAL, etc. can show you, me, us, everyone the door if we flex more muscle than the sytem can hold. Anything else is just foolish.

You can't just demand things like when you were the only CAL carrier or even the only, wholly owned, regional for CAL. The leverage right now, is gone. The majors can atleast try to play hardball, while defending their routes and ops. (but they haven't given all they can give and rightly so) YOUR routes on the otherhand, along with mine, are not ours. With $120 oil and possible shrinking feed, we have nothing. Zip.

We can try to be a major but as long as the UAL's and CAL's control the payments and the routes, we can do nothing. Again, not defeatist, just realistic when you have 4 months or so, cash on hand. You act like if you lose the CPA next month that you can just place those planes. Again, it's not the 90's or the post 9/11 environment for RJ's.

You will call me names and call me weak. Call me a fool and say I the reason for bringing the industry down. You will call me a bottomfeeder and that I have no heart. Sir, I believe you are wrong.

Just so you know, I don't like where this is going. I could "take a stand" with you and say right now that I deserve 150 dollars to fly a CRJ for one hour. SkW could do that and lose all it's contracts, and we would go down with you.
You blame me for being productive and a company sheep, when in reality, I am just maximizing my output for the company. Does the company notice.... Nope? But I have a decent job and don't work very hard. Am I properly compensated? Nope? But, again it is the reality of today's environment. So what do we do? I am open ears.....

I guess the schools we build in Texas go to the highest bidder. Nope. Let's try again. I guess the highways are built by the highest bidder. Ah, nope again. I guess all contracts that are put out are ALWAYS won by the highest bidder. Nope, not even close.

Do some places that take the lowest bidder get burned? Absolutely. But I'm guessing that is a chance CAL is willing to take. But that's SKW pilots fault too. Also, haven't you noticed that since the Comair strike, all carriers, including CAL, isn't willing to have one carrier disrupt their ops ever again? Diversification, my friend. But you tell them what you want and what you willdo and that you run the show. That will show them. Wrong.

Look, I am not trying to flight and I respect your opinion even though you don't respect mine.

You see me as a punk kid, happy to steal flying from anyone I can. That just isn't it. You basically say, anyone with a opinion unlike mine is just wrong. No if, ands, or buts. We will have to agree to disagree.


PS. I could understand your attitude if the situation was like when the regionals were growing and the airline industry was extremely profitable. If Jerry tried to buy XJT during that time and you didn't like the offer, then fine ridicule us and say no and go your merry way. But, with the current situation, I am scratching my head to figure why you act like you have a sure-fire hand for the poker game when the house's cards are stacked against you.....

But I guess we will see. Again, good luck.

 

[MONKEY]

XJT finds itself in a very precarious situation. Who’s fault is it? Is it SKW pilots for not unionizing? Is it XJT management? How will this benefit SKW pilots?

I believe that most SKW pilots would prefer some type of union representation, but due to the MANY failures of ALPA with the majors and complete lack of representation of the regionals, it will not be anytime soon. ALPA has failed you. By failing to bring up the standards of Mesa, they force the bar down. You can serve your ALPA brand koolaide in any flavor you want. You can say that ALPA is only as strong as local leadership. BUT, if that’s the case ALPA national is only as strong as Mesa. When ALPA bargains for brand scope and truly begins to protect regionals you will see a change in attitude with our group. Until then I will go with the status quo.

Is your current state the fault of your management? I would have to say yes. Your management has built a great airline. You have a quality product and a great pilot group. The problem is, your management lacks vision. They thought that flying 50 seat aircraft for 1 carrier is a great business plan. When CAL took some of the flying and re-assigned it to Chataqua, your management backed you at the total cost of your business. This was a mistake. They put your entire workforce in jeopardy. I know, I know, it is all about the cost of oil right? Same thing happened to ACA. 50 seat rjs cannot operate profitably. When your management failed to diversify and/or place these aircraft with another major they failed you. At that point you were doomed to fail.

Now that your management has put you in this position, one of two things will happen:

Option 1: You are able to renegotiate scope with SKYW Inc. Hopefully if this happens, you will negotiate to keep all of your aircraft. Inc will demand that you give up your merger portion of your contract.
Option 2: You give SKYW management the finger and stand your moral ground. CAL pulls more of your aircraft and gives them to SKW. Now the aircraft will be flown by pilots on the SKW or ASA pilot seniority list.

I don’t think that either of these offers is pleasant, but I think you do have a say in the matter. I do believe that you could have the opportunity to negotiate with SKYW management to improve your situation. Your MEC should be negotiating right now.

Now if SKW pilots were the blood-sucking vampires that you portray, they would vote for option 2. After all, they would have quicker upgrades. I think that most of us here are hoping for option 1.

Good luck to all of you.

 

[yellowfever]

Mcpickle, I certainly understand what you are saying....Again, I really do. And if I read this as a XJT pilot, I would probably say the same thing.


But, you act like there is a VIABLE alternative to the situation. You look down on me because I am realistic about today's industry. I would love to take a stand if there is even a snowball's chance in hell it would work.......But right now is not the time.

You want to be a regional but act like a Major with regards to it's power. You have none! CAL/UAL, etc. can show you, me, us, everyone the door if we flex more muscle than the sytem can hold. Anything else is just foolish.

You can't just demand things like when you were the only CAL carrier or even the only, wholly owned, regional for CAL. The leverage right now, is gone. The majors can atleast try to play hardball, while defending their routes and ops. (but they haven't given all they can give and rightly so) YOUR routes on the otherhand, along with mine, are not ours. With $120 oil and possible shrinking feed, we have nothing. Zip.

We can try to be a major but as long as the UAL's and CAL's control the payments and the routes, we can do nothing. Again, not defeatist, just realistic when you have 4 months or so, cash on hand. You act like if you lose the CPA next month that you can just place those planes. Again, it's not the 90's or the post 9/11 environment for RJ's.

You will call me names and call me weak. Call me a fool and say I the reason for bringing the industry down. You will call me a bottomfeeder and that I have no heart. Sir, I believe you are wrong.

Just so you know, I don't like where this is going. I could "take a stand" with you and say right now that I deserve 150 dollars to fly a CRJ for one hour. SkW could do that and lose all it's contracts, and we would go down with you.
You blame me for being productive and a company sheep, when in reality, I am just maximizing my output for the company. Does the company notice.... Nope? But I have a decent job and don't work very hard. Am I properly compensated? Nope? But, again it is the reality of today's environment. So what do we do? I am open ears.....

I guess the schools we build in Texas go to the highest bidder. Nope. Let's try again. I guess the highways are built by the highest bidder. Ah, nope again. I guess all contracts that are put out are ALWAYS won by the highest bidder. Nope, not even close.

Do some places that take the lowest bidder get burned? Absolutely. But I'm guessing that is a chance CAL is willing to take. But that's SKW pilots fault too. Also, haven't you noticed that since the Comair strike, all carriers, including CAL, isn't willing to have one carrier disrupt their ops ever again? Diversification, my friend. But you tell them what you want and what you willdo and that you run the show. That will show them. Wrong.

Look, I am not trying to flight and I respect your opinion even though you don't respect mine.

You see me as a punk kid, happy to steal flying from anyone I can. That just isn't it. You basically say, anyone with a opinion unlike mine is just wrong. No if, ands, or buts. We will have to agree to disagree.


PS. I could understand your attitude if the situation was like when the regionals were growing and the airline industry was extremely profitable. If Jerry tried to buy XJT during that time and you didn't like the offer, then fine ridicule us and say no and go your merry way. But, with the current situation, I am scratching my head to figure why you act like you have a sure-fire hand for the poker game when the house's cards are stacked against you.....

But I guess we will see. Again, good luck.

Pattern bargaining could work, and that is one of the reasons that the expressjet contract is written the way it is. Unfortunately, it is difficult when you have a pilot group (Skywest) that is willing to fly a 99 seat jet for same rate that they fly a 50 seat jet for. You say now is not the time to make a stand, but the point is ... you can't ever take a stand. Your management has been telling you over and over how bad the industry is and that they can't pay you any more. In the mean time they saved enough money to buy a couple of airlines. This gives them an opportunity to pit you against the others and drive labor costs down (your pay/benefits). Fortunately, your management bought a pilot group that was willing to take a stand. Now the threats of bleeding a/c from that airline will not work.

 

[XPOO]

Yellow Fever...get your facts straight. No SkyWest pilot has flown anything over 50 seats for 50 seat pay in over 2 years now. That little jab of yours is totally asinine now.

 

[Hoodabundy]

I believe that most SKW pilots would prefer some type of union representation, but due to the MANY failures of ALPA with the majors and complete lack of representation of the regionals, it will not be anytime soon. ALPA has failed you.

As a SKW pilot I agree with this. I think a union is the answer, just not ALPA. I've been with an ALPA carrier before and was not impressed. A union is a necessary evil, but why does it always have to be ALPA???

 

[WAVIT Inbound]

way to change a quote, well done. if skywest goes to the grave doesn't that mean that everybody will then go to the grave. that also means that since we are "bottom-feeders" somebody would have to go lower, that must mean you!!!!! Bash mormons all you want, i'm not even one!!! plus i agree with that quote.

Then your both idiots.

 

[mckpickle]

Mcpickle, I certainly understand what you are saying....Again, I really do. And if I read this as a XJT pilot, I would probably say the same thing.


But, you act like there is a VIABLE alternative to the situation. You look down on me because I am realistic about today's industry. I would love to take a stand if there is even a snowball's chance in hell it would work.......But right now is not the time.

You want to be a regional but act like a Major with regards to it's power. You have none! CAL/UAL, etc. can show you, me, us, everyone the door if we flex more muscle than the sytem can hold. Anything else is just foolish.

You can't just demand things like when you were the only CAL carrier or even the only, wholly owned, regional for CAL. The leverage right now, is gone. The majors can atleast try to play hardball, while defending their routes and ops. (but they haven't given all they can give and rightly so) YOUR routes on the otherhand, along with mine, are not ours. With $120 oil and possible shrinking feed, we have nothing. Zip.

We can try to be a major but as long as the UAL's and CAL's control the payments and the routes, we can do nothing. Again, not defeatist, just realistic when you have 4 months or so, cash on hand. You act like if you lose the CPA next month that you can just place those planes. Again, it's not the 90's or the post 9/11 environment for RJ's.

You will call me names and call me weak. Call me a fool and say I the reason for bringing the industry down. You will call me a bottomfeeder and that I have no heart. Sir, I believe you are wrong.

Just so you know, I don't like where this is going. I could "take a stand" with you and say right now that I deserve 150 dollars to fly a CRJ for one hour. SkW could do that and lose all it's contracts, and we would go down with you.
You blame me for being productive and a company sheep, when in reality, I am just maximizing my output for the company. Does the company notice.... Nope? But I have a decent job and don't work very hard. Am I properly compensated? Nope? But, again it is the reality of today's environment. So what do we do? I am open ears.....

I guess the schools we build in Texas go to the highest bidder. Nope. Let's try again. I guess the highways are built by the highest bidder. Ah, nope again. I guess all contracts that are put out are ALWAYS won by the highest bidder. Nope, not even close.

Do some places that take the lowest bidder get burned? Absolutely. But I'm guessing that is a chance CAL is willing to take. But that's SKW pilots fault too. Also, haven't you noticed that since the Comair strike, all carriers, including CAL, isn't willing to have one carrier disrupt their ops ever again? Diversification, my friend. But you tell them what you want and what you willdo and that you run the show. That will show them. Wrong.

Look, I am not trying to flight and I respect your opinion even though you don't respect mine.

You see me as a punk kid, happy to steal flying from anyone I can. That just isn't it. You basically say, anyone with a opinion unlike mine is just wrong. No if, ands, or buts. We will have to agree to disagree.


PS. I could understand your attitude if the situation was like when the regionals were growing and the airline industry was extremely profitable. If Jerry tried to buy XJT during that time and you didn't like the offer, then fine ridicule us and say no and go your merry way. But, with the current situation, I am scratching my head to figure why you act like you have a sure-fire hand for the poker game when the house's cards are stacked against you.....

But I guess we will see. Again, good luck.

You're missing my point entirely. My point is, had SW pilots voted in a union you would have negotiated scope protection for yourselves and those whom you steam roll. This is not about pay. This is about scope. Thats all.

This is reality because you and your fellow pilots accept it as such. You haven't learned from what Mesa went through with Freedom. You haven't learned from what Chataqua went through, you haven't learned from what Trans States went through with Go Jets. What have you learned other than to look out for only yourselves? Your day will come. Long after myself, with 11 years and 10,000 hours is our of a job and out of aviation, your pilot group will be in this possition. I hope you learn before it's too late for you and whom ever else you take over.

I respect your opinion but may I humbly suggest there is a better way. One that you may have to fight for, as we did.

 

[yellowfever]

Yellow Fever...get your facts straight. No SkyWest pilot has flown anything over 50 seats for 50 seat pay in over 2 years now. That little jab of yours is totally asinine now.

I know my facts. You guys have a crj200 base rate. Your meager BHO is nothing. I know how it came about and I know how it works. Maybe YOU have never flown a 70/76 seat jet for a 200 rate, but the Skywest pilots do. Most pilots that value their skills do not defend the BHO. The pilot group will fly anything up to 99 seats for that 200 rate...even if it's a different type. Sim, ground instruction, training, vacation, sick time, soft pay, all at 50 seat rates. If Skywest gets E175's they will fly them at a CRJ200 rate (even in the sim). The jab is that Skywest was instrumental in driving down the earning potential in a a/c that has been stretched to 100 seats. These are not toys...they are airliners. This is my career, not yours (I understand you are a dispatcher...not a jab at what you do). I feel I have earned/deserve better pay/benefits than what Skywest has to offer. That is why I gave them my resignation.

 

[MYFpilot]

Yellow Fever...get your facts straight. No SkyWest pilot has flown anything over 50 seats for 50 seat pay in over 2 years now. That little jab of yours is totally asinine now.

Can you answer this riddle?

A SkyWest CRJ-200 pilot flys a 4 day trip with 3 hours of block time each day of the trip. A SkyWest CRJ-900 pilot flys the same 4 day trip with 3 hours of block time each day of the trip. Who makes more money?

 

[XPOO]

Can you answer this riddle?

A SkyWest CRJ-200 pilot flys a 4 day trip with 3 hours of block time each day of the trip. A SkyWest CRJ-900 pilot flys the same 4 day trip with 3 hours of block time each day of the trip. Who makes more money?

Uncle Jerry!

 

[XPOO]

....you have to work so many hours, credit so much of this, fly a lot of that.... yeah I understand. Not as stupid as you think.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Perhaps if ALPA national took a little time to UNIFY (novel concept for a union, eh?) all of its member pilot groups

Two edged sword... how do you get the membership to particapte if the leadership is poor, if the leadership is poor how do you get the membership invovled...

But here is the kicker... its domocracy and each pilots career... at some point a sense of ownership is going to have to kick in...

Just like any democracy...

and get behind things like a national seniority list

This is proven unworkable.... why do you even suggest it... and try to make ALPA accountable?

instead of pitting all of the member groups against each other in a massive clusterfark...maybe, just maybe, the pilots who don't have such a strained relationship with their
management would be more inclined to join.

Agreed. It is a double edged sword. The ALPA leadership can do better...

95% of an LEC membership showing up at a meeting saying we are mand and we want change....

Rez, you always talk about ALPA being as strong as the local leadership. As the outside man looking in, that tells me that national is weak.

Your first sentence...local leadership.. then you say National is weak...

Why should national be strong...?? Was it ever intended to be?

And, based solely on my conversations with friends that are pilots and what I read on this God-forsaken message board...it is the national, universal QOL issues that ALPA needs to be working on...and spending a little less time on the small things like the FFDO program and keeping Captain Kangaroo...er, I mean, Captain Prater's moustache so neatly trimmed.

So the two aren't connected. The power to get QOL issues is all about the RLA....

Don't get me wrong, I applaud ALPA's work as a safety advocate...however, there apparently needs to be more work on actually taking care of the livelihoods of the current member pilots before even considering chasing more membership.

Agreed... is minor minority particaption the key? Or should the leadership just do whatever they think is best... oh wait that is happening now...

I think, when faced with the decision of whether or not to organize, the average pilot doesn't put alot of thought into ALPA's advocacy on The Hill

Do you put allot of value in the things you take for granted? Satisfied needs are not motivators... IOW the only thing pilots want to know is... what has ALPA done for me....lately...

...they look at the state of QOL of other ALPA pilots. And, when they see the messes of US Airways/America West...ALPA pilots losing jobs left and right...and the general lack of brotherhood and unity amongst all of the ALPA pilot groups...not to mention the "Me vs. The World" and general unhappiness with life
mentality conveyed by many ALPA pilots...and can you see why 2/3 of SkyWest pilots might not want to join up.

The trick is to look beyond all of that... the above quote is big problems... but are those problems going to solved my apathetic members and non members?

I wish nothing but the best for the ExpressJet guys and gals. I truly hope this doesn't go down the way you guys are saying. However, if it does...you must remember that this is business...and your management deserves the blame, not the SkyWest line pilot.

SO if/when Skywest fails and all of you are suffering and it looks like your jobs are on the line... if we all turn our backs on you.... that is ok?

That is not my M.O. but it seems to be yours... so if the rest of the pilots treat you the way you are treating us... that's cool?

 

[HockleyPilot]

You're missing my point entirely. My point is, had SW pilots voted in a union you would have negotiated scope protection for yourselves and those whom you steam roll. This is not about pay. This is about scope. Thats all.

This is reality because you and your fellow pilots accept it as such. You haven't learned from what Mesa went through with Freedom. You haven't learned from what Chataqua went through, you haven't learned from what Trans States went through with Go Jets. What have you learned other than to look out for only yourselves? Your day will come. Long after myself, with 11 years and 10,000 hours is our of a job and out of aviation, your pilot group will be in this possition. I hope you learn before it's too late for you and whom ever else you take over.

I respect your opinion but may I humbly suggest there is a better way. One that you may have to fight for, as we did.

I appreciate your candor. I sincerely do.
I must also apoligize for my presumption with regards to your responses. You have been courteous with your posts even with your given disdain for for SKW pilots in general.

I am inclined to agree that scope is pivotal. Again, though, how to acheive uniform scope....still leaves alot to be desired.

For the record, I completely hope that CAL doesn't cave on scope and I would be all for (jet flying) to go back to the majors. Even if it meant I would be furloughed.