An open letter to the pilots of Skywest

[XPOO]

................................ not worth it..................

Likewise

 

[Bushhatesyou]

Likewise

Yeah well.. Just like you're never going to convince a scab he is a piece of Sh!t. I have a feeling you are the same way.

 

[CFI2766]

I understand what he's saying. Its not Skywest Airlines who's made the offer for XJT, its the holding company, Skywest Inc. They also own ASA Airlines. But the post is only addressed to the Skywest pilots, not the ASA pilots who stand to benefit just as much from the acquisition.

How could an ASA pilot potentially benefit from this transaction? I HIGHLY doubt that ASA would be asked/tasked with setting up a new base at LAX, again. Is there some other benefit for the ASA pilot group that you were referring to?

 

[No.W.]

This thread cracks me up.

I appreciate the professionalism of the original poster. I voted for ALPA at OO. I was outvoted. What am I supposed to do? Go on strike by myself? Our power is in numbers, that's why we unionize. If the majority of my fellow pilots don't agree...that's democracy. Even if I wanted to move to another carrier...I'd lose all of my seniority...I've got 2200 pilots under me at SkyWest. Why would I take a chance of moving on(to a major or otherwise) in the current state of the industry.

I think it's accurate to lay the majority of blame for a company's fate with it's management. Sure, the employees have an effect, but if it wasn't for the tactics of SkyWest management(good or bad) we wouldn't be in a position to buy another airline. It really has nothing to do with what the empoyees do...union or not. Southwest has proven you can be successful in a tough environment WITH a union. SkyWest has shown you can be successful without. I submit that is because both companies have good management.

Perhaps Ream and company did their best...perhaps not. I know when I was at ExpressJet before 9/11 I was happy and it was a great place to work...AND appeared to be well managed. Perhaps luck plays a part as well. Perhaps being in the "right place" at the "right time" does as well. I don't know. I DO know that pilots are not even close to the top of the "blame-list" when these situations arise. No employee group is. The top of the list includes board members and people with three letters after their names(CEO, CFO, COO, etc.).

I know you are still going to blame the SkyWest Airlines pilots. That's fine.

Let me get this out of the way...since SkyWest Airlines is now taking center stage as the scape goat for all the industry's woes...

SkyWest SUCKS!!!

What a bunch of SCABS!!!

(said with tongue in cheek...but I figured I'd say it first).

 

[SSDD]

How could an ASA pilot potentially benefit from this transaction? I HIGHLY doubt that ASA would be asked/tasked with setting up a new base at LAX, again. Is there some other benefit for the ASA pilot group that you were referring to?

I'd venture to say that neither you or I know what potential benefits could come from this transaction for either ASA or Skywest. But the point is that singling one group out while not the other is hypocritical.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I'd venture to say that neither you or I know what potential benefits could come from this transaction for either ASA or Skywest. But the point is that singling one group out while not the other is hypocritical.

Well then I guess I'm pissed at Jack Nicholson. Who knows what kind of damage he might do to us!

 

[outtahere]

I swear...Pilots + Internet = retarded, 13 year old, West Side Story-style gang wannabes sometimes with the hatred towards one another.

As long as we are going to turn this into YET ANOTHER union debate...

Perhaps if ALPA national took a little time to UNIFY (novel concept for a union, eh?) all of its member pilot groups and get behind things like a national seniority list instead of pitting all of the member groups against each other in a massive clusterfark...maybe, just maybe, the pilots who don't have such a strained relationship with their
management would be more inclined to join.

Rez, you always talk about ALPA being as strong as the local leadership. As the outside man looking in, that tells me that national is weak. And, based solely on my conversations with friends that are pilots and what I read on this God-forsaken message board...it is the national, universal QOL issues that ALPA needs to be working on...and spending a little less time on the small things like the FFDO program and keeping Captain Kangaroo...er, I mean, Captain Prater's moustache so neatly trimmed.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud ALPA's work as a safety advocate...however, there apparently needs to be more work on actually taking care of the livelihoods of the current member pilots before even considering chasing more membership.

I think, when faced with the decision of whether or not to organize, the average pilot doesn't put alot of thought into ALPA's advocacy on The Hill...they look at the state of QOL of other ALPA pilots. And, when they see the messes of US Airways/America West...ALPA pilots losing jobs left and right...and the general lack of brotherhood and unity amongst all of the ALPA pilot groups...not to mention the "Me vs. The World" and general unhappiness with life
mentality conveyed by many ALPA pilots...and can you see why 2/3 of SkyWest pilots might not want to join up.

I wish nothing but the best for the ExpressJet guys and gals. I truly hope this doesn't go down the way you guys are saying. However, if it does...you must remember that this is business...and your management deserves the blame, not the SkyWest line pilot.

It is hard to disagree with this post. ALPA in concept is a great idea, but there needs to be some serious unification across the board. The problem with Skywest is not only do they compete to the detriment of other groups, they then spit in the face of the conquered groups and brag about the quick upgrade and how much better off they are than other groups. Skywest pilots will never have anything more than what an ALPA group of pilots vote in. So even though Skywest pilots may not make the decision for management, they make managements job so much easier by allowing the work rules to be manipulated at will. Personally, I will not go one extra step farther than legally required to help any Skywest pilot. If we are a pound over weight and a Skywest pilot wants the JS, I am sorry but we are over weight. That is just about as much help as you all have done for the rest of the industry. Just so you know, I would do anything I could to help a Mesa pilot, even though Mesa sucks, atleast they have a shot at bettering the situation they currently have.

 

[CFI2766]

I'd venture to say that neither you or I know what potential benefits could come from this transaction for either ASA or Skywest. But the point is that singling one group out while not the other is hypocritical.

Fair enough; I doubt either of us know of what potential benefits could come of this transaction for either ASA or Skywest.

However, it is not correct to point to any possible future misfortune to be suffered by the XJT guys as being brought about by the ASA pilot group. From just an average line-flying guy's perspective, we had no influence in the decision SKYW made to acquire XJT. Nothing hypocritical here.

 

[SSDD]

Fair enough; I doubt either of us know of what potential benefits could come of this transaction for either ASA or Skywest.

However, it is not correct to point to any possible future misfortune to be suffered by the XJT guys as being brought about by the ASA pilot group. From just an average line-flying guy's perspective, we had no influence in the decision SKYW made to acquire XJT. Nothing hypocritical here.

Agreed. But neither do Skywest pilots! That's my point! ASA is as much a part of Skywest Inc., as Skywest Airlines

 

[whosurdaddy?]

It is hard to disagree with this post. ALPA in concept is a great idea, but there needs to be some serious unification across the board. The problem with Skywest is not only do they compete to the detriment of other groups, they then spit in the face of the conquered groups and brag about the quick upgrade and how much better off they are than other groups. Skywest pilots will never have anything more than what an ALPA group of pilots vote in. So even though Skywest pilots may not make the decision for management, they make managements job so much easier by allowing the work rules to be manipulated at will. Personally, I will not go one extra step farther than legally required to help any Skywest pilot. If we are a pound over weight and a Skywest pilot wants the JS, I am sorry but we are over weight. That is just about as much help as you all have done for the rest of the industry. Just so you know, I would do anything I could to help a Mesa pilot, even though Mesa sucks, atleast they have a shot at bettering the situation they currently have.

You are such a loser, nothing like helping get somebody home to see their family. you sir are what's wrong in this world. please blame all the woes of the aviation industry on a group of pilots who choose not to be represented by a union. we are regional airline pilots, get over yourselfs!!! if denying a jumpseat helps you sleep at night that's fine. skywest pilots will continue to help other pilots from other companies get home to their family and friends.

 

[AWACoff]

skywest pilots will continue to screw other pilots from other companies and their family and friends.

FIXED!

I am sure there are many that will enjoy dancing on Skywest's grave when the day comes. Enjoy the ride because it won't last forever. Oh, and Joseph Smith was a child molesting fraud.

 

[kj6991]

It is hard to disagree with this post. ALPA in concept is a great idea, but there needs to be some serious unification across the board. The problem with Skywest is not only do they compete to the detriment of other groups, they then spit in the face of the conquered groups and brag about the quick upgrade and how much better off they are than other groups. Skywest pilots will never have anything more than what an ALPA group of pilots vote in. So even though Skywest pilots may not make the decision for management, they make managements job so much easier by allowing the work rules to be manipulated at will. Personally, I will not go one extra step farther than legally required to help any Skywest pilot. If we are a pound over weight and a Skywest pilot wants the JS, I am sorry but we are over weight. That is just about as much help as you all have done for the rest of the industry. Just so you know, I would do anything I could to help a Mesa pilot, even though Mesa sucks, atleast they have a shot at bettering the situation they currently have.

Weird.... I guess if that ALPA vote went through we could have good work rules like Mesa. Also what's weird about that is my good friend has been there for 5 years and says it's absolutely as miserable as ever.

You wouldn't try to get one of our jumpseaters to work or home from a trip... then don't. Considering 99% of captains here would probably go out of their way to get you on. So be it

1/2 to 3/4 of my fo's come from previous ALPA airlines. All say the same thing with regards to being here as opposed to their previous airline. "It's like night and day."

 

[HockleyPilot]

Here is my take on the situation. You can tell me to STFU and that's fine.

I think that you XJT pilots are some of the cockiest pilots out there. My friends that I talk to on a regular basis tell me the same thing, looking inward. That's not necessarily a bad thing...But, here I believe it is.

SkyWest Airlines, the only thing I can think of negatively about working here, that others are mad about (other than non-union), is that the 1000 or so, original pilots voted to fly 50 for 70 rates. They were duped. Maybe some weren't. I didn't vote for it (I wasn't here and frankly knew nothing about the situation at the time), but I did come to SKW and gained because of it. (You could have come to SKW just as easy during that time too). You can also say we grew at ACA's and Air Whiskey's expense. Only partially true.
The other growth was from UAL and DAL caving on scope. Again, you could have come to SKW at that time to jump in on it, but, that's neither here nor there.

Back to the orginal topic.

I fly on CAL/Express every week and the same idea rings true. You are a strong pilot group and take no prisoners. You have a "industry leading contract" and have a quality operation....Good metrics, etc. And I have to agree.

I also,tend to believe most XJT pilots are out of touch with the reality that we aren't in the booming days of the 90's airline travel where the regional pilots could name a price and MGT would bid with that number accordingly.

Here's why I believe that without emotion involved.

You work under CAL. They haven't been in bankruptcy since most of you have been there. They haven't seen bad times since Gordon turned it around. They run a real airline with mostly, properly staffed ground crews, agents, and other airline people. They have the right equipment on the right routes. They want to give their customers safe, quality, and efficient air travel. You have the support you need (mostly).

Are there some hiccups in your ops? Sure, I have witnessed them first hand in IAH on the Brasilia. Again, I ask my friends how things work around there.....You have it good.....

You haven't worked for a bankrupt UAL. You haven't been asked to make lemonade out of apples. You haven't been squeezed for quality and efficiency that UAL and DAL has asked for. I know ya'll fly a few planes for DAL and had temporary flights in IAD. That is nothing. On a grand scale of things, you don't know what it's like being a DAL or UAL regional. You only have CAL.

You know that CAL tries to do things right.....atleast attempts to. UAL just says please do it this way, even if it's unrealistic. 24 minute turns with a crew swap. We do it. Help with seat belts, we do it. Throw some bags, we do it.....etc...etc...

I watch as you get to the hub and the cleaning lady comes on and cleans while the aircraft turn is 45 minutes.
That sure would be nice, but UAL told SKW to getter done', so SKW asked us to do it and we delivered. (Now, I know some wlll say, that a union will prevent us from doing things like seatbelts or trash, etc., and while I don't like doing seatbelts, I don't HAVE to, it's not in my job description and if the FA is a bitch, she doesn't get any help.) All I am saying is that we have been flexible and so far we have been (mostly) rewarded. Union or not. (BTW, I voted for ALPA and again, I am only one vote). Regardless, this isn't about a union or not. To me, is is about facts and real life logistics.

So, yes, I do think you are out of touch with today's airline reality. Another reason I believe that is that you keep saying SKW is backstabbing you by dealing with CAL directly. How is that underhanded? By ensuring placement of your AC with a SKW buyout? Darn, being bought by a stable company and keep your contracts? Geez. Sounds good to me.... Oh, but branded is going to go away. Well, you should know by now, that the branded is going away no matter what happens. INDY AIR 2, regardless of how well the product is, is not going to work.
Here in the 2008 market, $120 oil is dooming ALL airplanes, so your shi-t can stink, even if you give free BJ's and hand jobs. It's just reality. If we wanted daydream and think that as long as we have a quality product we will make it...that's fine. But then you would have Frontier making hand over fist while UAL mainline would be gone 4 years ago. Unfortunately, that just ain't just how it is.

So Jerry wants to eat your scope. Ok. I would love to have your scope, but it won't happen. Jerry wants flexibility. He needs it from you. Do I drink the SGU koolaid? No, but they do a damn good job of running an airline. I am very vocal about pointing out some of our shortcomings and will discuss them anytime. I just don't think that they (Jerry, et al.)have given you the big FU like some of you think. And it also seems on "the pipe", some of your own think that way too.

I just don't see how being noble and "fight the good fight" till the last day does your child or wife/husband any good in today's reality. Again, I don't condone it, but I can only work with what has been presented to me. I can't just live in the clouds and demand unrealistis things. But that's just me. I want better pay and I want better schedules. I want security and all things associated, but everything has a fine line. SkyWest works the line. But when the opportunity presents itself, we need to push the line up. Now isn't the time.

Ask most INDY pilots and they say, "you know, I took the moral stand and now I am on my 3rd regional". They took UAL on it's bluff and UAL showed them how easily a contract carrier could be replaced. We at SKW are no different. We could be the next ACA. But, we have to try to keep UAL and DAL happy, keep the quality up, and be as efficient as possbile.

So it's up for you to decide what the "correct" thing is for you. As for most SKW pilots "getting wood" as some of you have put it, for INC. to buy XJT, well that's just politcal propaganda.

It will do NO good for the pilots of SKW Airlines for SKYWEST INC. to buy you. Again, we at SkyWest Airlines have 0 to benefit from by Jerry and the boys buying you out.

Unless you have stock totals like Jerry and the boys, it's moot..... It would be more benificial for us for you to lose the CAL contract and then INC. bid on it for SAW Air. But Jerry and his boys want to make more money, like they do with ASA under the umbrella. It's their business. They are playing monopoly.

Like I said, the only thing I can see is the 50 for 70 argument and it was wrong. I could have held out and said, No, I am not going to work for SKW because I will not fly the 70 for 50. I could avoid bidding it on principle. But in life, it seems that if I didn't bid it or didn't come to SKW, guess what....There is another number behind me ready to do it if I don't. It isn't quite the moral delimma some make it out to be.

I got lucky (for now), I chose SKW. I could be at ASA, XJT, Comair, Republic/Chataqua/Shuttle, Mesa, PSA, or any other regional. Like I said, I got lucky that "so far", we have been sucessful.

In closing I am not writing this to be proud, boastful, or hurtful to you guys. I am offering my opinion when some asked. I think you have a quality operation with quality people. I wish we all could be beer brothers and everything works out best for all. I bet UAL, Braniff, TWA, and Pan Am would have said the same thing 35 yrs ago. Unfortunately, in this industry there are some real bummer events.

Maybe solo, XJT can still pull it out and that would be great too. But, I am just realist. So I tend to look at things that way.....And as it stands right now, you are bleeding. So Jerry is looking out for Jerry, and trying to make himself more money.

Again, I am not trying to start poop. That's how I see it and if I am wrong, I certainly do apoligize for it in advance.

 

[whosurdaddy?]

FIXED!

I am sure there are many that will enjoy dancing on Skywest's grave when the day comes. Enjoy the ride because it won't last forever. Oh, and Joseph Smith was a child molesting fraud.

way to change a quote, well done. if skywest goes to the grave doesn't that mean that everybody will then go to the grave. that also means that since we are "bottom-feeders" somebody would have to go lower, that must mean you!!!!! Bash mormons all you want, i'm not even one!!! plus i agree with that quote.

 

[mckpickle]

Here is my take on the situation. You can tell me to STFU and that's fine.

I think that you XJT pilots are some of the cockiest pilots out there. My friends that I talk to on a regular basis tell me the same thing, looking inward. That's not necessarily a bad thing...But, here I believe it is.

SkyWest Airlines, the only thing I can think of negatively about working here, that others are mad about (other than non-union), is that the 1000 or so, original pilots voted to fly 50 for 70 rates. They were duped. Maybe some weren't. I didn't vote for it (I wasn't here and frankly knew nothing about the situation at the time), but I did come to SKW and gained because of it. (You could have come to SKW just as easy during that time too). You can also say we grew at ACA's and Air Whiskey's expense. Only partially true.
The other growth was from UAL and DAL caving on scope. Again, you could have come to SKW at that time to jump in on it, but, that's neither here nor there.

Back to the orginal topic.

I fly on CAL/Express every week and the same idea rings true. You are a strong pilot group and take no prisoners. You have a "industry leading contract" and have a quality operation....Good metrics, etc. And I have to agree.

I also,tend to believe most XJT pilots are out of touch with the reality that we aren't in the booming days of the 90's airline travel where the regional pilots could name a price and MGT would bid with that number accordingly.

Here's why I believe that without emotion involved.

You work under CAL. They haven't been in bankruptcy since most of you have been there. They haven't seen bad times since Gordon turned it around. They run a real airline with mostly, properly staffed ground crews, agents, and other airline people. They have the right equipment on the right routes. They want to give their customers safe, quality, and efficient air travel. You have the support you need (mostly).

Are there some hiccups in your ops? Sure, I have witnessed them first hand in IAH on the Brasilia. Again, I ask my friends how things work around there.....You have it good.....

You haven't worked for a bankrupt UAL. You haven't been asked to make lemonade out of apples. You haven't been squeezed for quality and efficiency that UAL and DAL has asked for. I know ya'll fly a few planes for DAL and had temporary flights in IAD. That is nothing. On a grand scale of things, you don't know what it's like being a DAL or UAL regional. You only have CAL.

You know that CAL tries to do things right.....atleast attempts to. UAL just says please do it this way, even if it's unrealistic. 24 minute turns with a crew swap. We do it. Help with seat belts, we do it. Throw some bags, we do it.....etc...etc...

I watch as you get to the hub and the cleaning lady comes on and cleans while the aircraft turn is 45 minutes.
That sure would be nice, but UAL told SKW to getter done', so SKW asked us to do it and we delivered. (Now, I know some wlll say, that a union will prevent us from doing things like seatbelts or trash, etc., and while I don't like doing seatbelts, I don't HAVE to, it's not in my job description and if the FA is a bitch, she doesn't get any help.) All I am saying is that we have been flexible and so far we have been (mostly) rewarded. Union or not. (BTW, I voted for ALPA and again, I am only one vote). Regardless, this isn't about a union or not. To me, is is about facts and real life logistics.

So, yes, I do think you are out of touch with today's airline reality. Another reason I believe that is that you keep saying SKW is backstabbing you by dealing with CAL directly. How is that underhanded? By ensuring placement of your AC with a SKW buyout? Darn, being bought by a stable company and keep your contracts? Geez. Sounds good to me.... Oh, but branded is going to go away. Well, you should know by now, that the branded is going away no matter what happens. INDY AIR 2, regardless of how well the product is, is not going to work.
Here in the 2008 market, $120 oil is dooming ALL airplanes, so your shi-t can stink, even if you give free BJ's and hand jobs. It's just reality. If we wanted daydream and think that as long as we have a quality product we will make it...that's fine. But then you would have Frontier making hand over fist while UAL mainline would be gone 4 years ago. Unfortunately, that just ain't just how it is.

So Jerry wants to eat your scope. Ok. I would love to have your scope, but it won't happen. Jerry wants flexibility. He needs it from you. Do I drink the SGU koolaid? No, but they do a damn good job of running an airline. I am very vocal about pointing out some of our shortcomings and will discuss them anytime. I just don't think that they (Jerry, et al.)have given you the big FU like some of you think. And it also seems on "the pipe", some of your own think that way too.

I just don't see how being noble and "fight the good fight" till the last day does your child or wife/husband any good in today's reality. Again, I don't condone it, but I can only work with what has been presented to me. I can't just live in the clouds and demand unrealistis things. But that's just me. I want better pay and I want better schedules. I want security and all things associated, but everything has a fine line. SkyWest works the line. But when the opportunity presents itself, we need to push the line up. Now isn't the time.

Ask most INDY pilots and they say, "you know, I took the moral stand and now I am on my 3rd regional". They took UAL on it's bluff and UAL showed them how easily a contract carrier could be replaced. We at SKW are no different. We could be the next ACA. But, we have to try to keep UAL and DAL happy, keep the quality up, and be as efficient as possbile.

So it's up for you to decide what the "correct" thing is for you. As for most SKW pilots "getting wood" as some of you have put it, for INC. to buy XJT, well that's just politcal propaganda.

It will do NO good for the pilots of SKW Airlines for SKYWEST INC. to buy you. Again, we at SkyWest Airlines have 0 to benefit from by Jerry and the boys buying you out.

Unless you have stock totals like Jerry and the boys, it's moot..... It would be more benificial for us for you to lose the CAL contract and then INC. bid on it for SAW Air. But Jerry and his boys want to make more money, like they do with ASA under the umbrella. It's their business. They are playing monopoly.

Like I said, the only thing I can see is the 50 for 70 argument and it was wrong. I could have held out and said, No, I am not going to work for SKW because I will not fly the 70 for 50. I could avoid bidding it on principle. But in life, it seems that if I didn't bid it or didn't come to SKW, guess what....There is another number behind me ready to do it if I don't. It isn't quite the moral delimma some make it out to be.

I got lucky (for now), I chose SKW. I could be at ASA, XJT, Comair, Republic/Chataqua/Shuttle, Mesa, PSA, or any other regional. Like I said, I got lucky that "so far", we have been sucessful.

In closing I am not writing this to be proud, boastful, or hurtful to you guys. I am offering my opinion when some asked. I think you have a quality operation with quality people. I wish we all could be beer brothers and everything works out best for all. I bet UAL, Braniff, TWA, and Pan Am would have said the same thing 35 yrs ago. Unfortunately, in this industry there are some real bummer events.

Maybe solo, XJT can still pull it out and that would be great too. But, I am just realist. So I tend to look at things that way.....And as it stands right now, you are bleeding. So Jerry is looking out for Jerry, and trying to make himself more money.

Again, I am not trying to start poop. That's how I see it and if I am wrong, I certainly do apoligize for it in advance.

Everyone read this. Then reread this, and then read it again.

This thinking fellow pilots, is the reason why we will never take our place as professionals in the industry. We will continue to be beat down by management while you THINK it is impossible to negotiate job protection.

I weep as what you, my fellow pilots, have allowed this industry to become.