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An Observation...

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A couple of points:
1. I really like my present job
2. The pay still stinks (conssesionary contract)
3. The chances of moving up to a MAJOR are slimmer by the day
4. I would like kids before I keel over playing catch with'em


Follow your Contracts, If you don't like what your Union is doing run for the MEC next time around. 85% of us will retire at the Regional level, so get the best deal you can when you can.

Jobear
 
A small solution...

Next time you feel like writing a gripe-filled reply on this board....don't. Take the time instead to write a letter to....the company newsletter, the MEC, your chief pilot, even your CEO. Taking the time to preach to the choir on this board, while entertaining, is useless. There are few on this board that would disagree with your gripe-filled post. Maybe your letter to the company will make a difference, maybe it won't. However, I would put money on it doing more good than submitting to this board.
 
Re: A small solution...

jet newbie said:
Next time you feel like writing a gripe-filled reply on this board....don't. Take the time instead to write a letter to....the company newsletter, the MEC, your chief pilot, even your CEO. Taking the time to preach to the choir on this board, while entertaining, is useless. There are few on this board that would disagree with your gripe-filled post. Maybe your letter to the company will make a difference, maybe it won't. However, I would put money on it doing more good than submitting to this board.

Write your CEO saying that your 1st year probation pay is crap....see how well that goes over.

Bitching here is harmless, bitching to the company is suicide.

--03M
 
As far as throwing fists at us "inexperienced" pilots for not knowing anything about management, go easy. Most of us spend enough time here to know some. We're all here to learn something, and look up to you "experienced" pilots with jealousy (to be able to complain about following a C172 on final), but also hopes of learning something and finding just a little hope that we can someday share the FLs with every other "proffesional pilot".

Riddle Momma,
We don't mean to sound like we are throwing fists at you all in the 172's. Sorry if it seems that way. We have nothing against you. What gets us all riled up are the people in the 172's, who feel free to give opinions on our stances and tell us to shut up and take it in the butt. What these people do not seem to get in their thick and empty gourds is that
a) we "did our time". We paid our dues and finally got on to the airlines
b) they have NOT been in our position, so they speak out of, well, ignorance
c) it was the hard effort and sacrafice of those earlier in the airline industry that made it possible to better things. The CMR strike is an example. Now, these new people want to let it be taken away just because someone will do it for nothing. This is like the government seizing your house, which you paid for, and selling it to some bum for half price, because that's all they'll pay for it and they really want a house. They'll do anything to have your house, so you have to give it to them.
and d) they play the "airline pilot versus GA pilot" game.

We have nothing against a hard working honest CFI, freight dog, or whatever trying to climb in to the cockpit of an airliner. What we have a problem with is people who are so willing to cheapen our profession in the process.
Good luck. I'm sure you'll get there.
 
Other Options

I flew for a part 121 commuter airline for 3 years as both a FO and a Capt (was downgraded after a few months) and I can tell you after switching to corporate that the money is the same and the life style is much better. I fly 2-3 days a week and I am paid salary with all expenses put on the company credit card. True, I do sit more in the FBO then on turns in the hub but I am at a different airport every week, which keeps me awake on approach and landing.

It's also very nice not to sit next to some old fart who complains and cries about "you kids with 1500 hours" and how the company/industry is falling apart. Some people seem to think that you need at least 8,000 hours TT to sit right seat in a turboprop/RJ. After flying in both seats I can tell you that the 10% rule applies to both pilots with 10,000 hours and with 1,200 hours, about 1 in 10 would make a better shoe salesman and he/she wouldn't be very good at that. However, the attitude of the older guys who have "seen it all" can be very tiring. My advice to people would be to fly for the commuters for a year or two and then go on to corporate/frax/upper end freight. Those three are much more stable than the airline idustry will ever be and your lifestyle will be the same/better.

Lets face it guys, the days of working for a commuter then moving up to a major in a year or two are past. I don't really consider the majors even an option at this point and unless you really know some one who is connected at SWA, JB, ATA, or Airtran it's probably a realistic outlook. The future is in freight, frax, or coproate. You will never make big six figured money but you will make a good living and have a somewhat stable job. If you can, I would leave the Regionals/commuters, it is great flying but after a couple of years most people are ready for a change, and should in my opinion. Generally(their are exceptions) Staying to long at a commuter/regional is a source of bitterness/anger.

Just my opinon, been known to be wrong.

CD
 
You Havent flown charter very long, give it time and you will be a bitchen soon enough.


Hey the popcorn machine is over in the corner!
 
Pilots:

In the history of aviation there have always been more pilots than flying jobs, remember, even Orvill and Wilbur had to flip a coin to see who got to make the first powered flight.

In the 1920's the surplus of pilots and airplanes meant there was not much of a premium on either. Airmail contracts had as high as a 80% mortality rate - since one pilot who refused to fly in dangerous conditions could easily be replaced by a more daring pilot.

Also, airline operations developed a seniority system for promotion. Like Democracy, the seniority system has flaws, but it is the best solution for the problem of deciding who gets better trips, the left seat, etc...

Due to the seniority system pilots are tied to their employers. The most stunning example is the Delta pilot who earned nearly $200,000 before being furloughed, who now earns $19,000 at ASA as a First Officer and who is grateful to fly.

In comparison, at my former job I was worth $60 to $80K at any employer I cared to work for. Changing companies often was the track to promotion. As a consultant that number could go as high as $250,000 (wish I had realized that then!)

Because of the fact that we can not change jobs without loss of seniority, pay and prestige, we Pilots are uniquely partnered with our employers. Therefore it is important that we fight to improve the standards where we work. Unlike the President of the Company - we are the Company!

It is natural for those pilots paying to learn to envy those who get paid to fly. However, how excited would you be to learn this profession if there was no "profession" for you to enjoy once you got here? Sure the flying is fun, but there are also a lot of long hours, getting tired, missing the beautiful girl at home in your bed, hours of studying for checkrides, the fear of losing your medical, staying in Hotels where the mold, or food, or water, make you ill and the terrifying fear that you screwed something up that could cost you your certification. Believe me you have not lived until you get Montezuma's revenge in the middle of a 5 day.

Also, there is the issue of training. I've got post graduate degrees and professional certification outside of the aviation industry - the EMB120 initial training was by far, at least 200% more difficult than any other endeavor I've ever undertaken. Candidly, it was not worth what I got paid to fly that thing.

In exchange for doing my level best to keep the airline safe and running on time I want a house, a reliable car and the ability to take the aforementioned beautiful girl to a dinner and a movie. Why would any of the "quit yer bitchin'" posters on this board want anything else?
 
Flying is Flying

If you are flying part 91 like I am or part 121 like I used to, it is all the same. It all depends on your point of view and what is acceptable to you personally. If you are brand new to aviation anything will be acceptable and that is the cause of much of the anger and frustration on this board. It seems the older pilots who have been flying forever find nothing acceptable, this is also a cuase of frustration and anger/bitterness.

No matter what you do for a living their are always things you are not going to like about your job. If you got into this profession to get rich you are in for a wake-up call. I agree completely that people should be allowed to make a good life for themselves flying airplanes but it's not always going to be possible.

Having a back up plan is all you can do. The only thing you can count on in this industry is your ability to change and adapt. A guy I used to fly with is a master plumber. He got all his certifications while flying the line for a living. He is one guy who is truly prepared for Chapter 7, retirement etc. It's not that hard to learn a trade/skill with all the time off most of us have. However, I am single with no kids so I am sure the married with kids people on here will disagree. I just think we all have to many options to be so unhappy and frustrated everyday.


CD
 
I love my job. I went to where I am now cause I could get 1000hrs turbine pic in two-two and a half years and move on.
things have changed, and I have to lump it for a few more years
to see if things are going to get better.

Just like entertainment and sports. for everyone that gets that $200K/yr. job, there are a thousand of us standing in line.

I just wish that our management would live up to what they promised when I signed on...they aren't. If I lie to them, they
could fire me...what happens to them when they lie to the employees?

It isn't only aviation...there really isn't a "good" business to be in
right now.
 
Oh,
Escobar was the big druglord in Columbia that they assaainated a few years ago. Spittin' image of him----before the bullets.
 
I am not sure porn stars is where I saw this post headed but at least no one is blaming the "800 hour wonders" or airline management. We are making progress already!!
 

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