RubberDuck
Active member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2002
- Posts
- 37
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
An Observation...
- Thread starter jet newbie
- Start date
- Watchers 12
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
~~~^~~~
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Posts
- 6,137
Pilots:
In the history of aviation there have always been more pilots than flying jobs, remember, even Orvill and Wilbur had to flip a coin to see who got to make the first powered flight.
In the 1920's the surplus of pilots and airplanes meant there was not much of a premium on either. Airmail contracts had as high as a 80% mortality rate - since one pilot who refused to fly in dangerous conditions could easily be replaced by a more daring pilot.
Also, airline operations developed a seniority system for promotion. Like Democracy, the seniority system has flaws, but it is the best solution for the problem of deciding who gets better trips, the left seat, etc...
Due to the seniority system pilots are tied to their employers. The most stunning example is the Delta pilot who earned nearly $200,000 before being furloughed, who now earns $19,000 at ASA as a First Officer and who is grateful to fly.
In comparison, at my former job I was worth $60 to $80K at any employer I cared to work for. Changing companies often was the track to promotion. As a consultant that number could go as high as $250,000 (wish I had realized that then!)
Because of the fact that we can not change jobs without loss of seniority, pay and prestige, we Pilots are uniquely partnered with our employers. Therefore it is important that we fight to improve the standards where we work. Unlike the President of the Company - we are the Company!
It is natural for those pilots paying to learn to envy those who get paid to fly. However, how excited would you be to learn this profession if there was no "profession" for you to enjoy once you got here? Sure the flying is fun, but there are also a lot of long hours, getting tired, missing the beautiful girl at home in your bed, hours of studying for checkrides, the fear of losing your medical, staying in Hotels where the mold, or food, or water, make you ill and the terrifying fear that you screwed something up that could cost you your certification. Believe me you have not lived until you get Montezuma's revenge in the middle of a 5 day.
Also, there is the issue of training. I've got post graduate degrees and professional certification outside of the aviation industry - the EMB120 initial training was by far, at least 200% more difficult than any other endeavor I've ever undertaken. Candidly, it was not worth what I got paid to fly that thing.
In exchange for doing my level best to keep the airline safe and running on time I want a house, a reliable car and the ability to take the aforementioned beautiful girl to a dinner and a movie. Why would any of the "quit yer bitchin'" posters on this board want anything else?
In the history of aviation there have always been more pilots than flying jobs, remember, even Orvill and Wilbur had to flip a coin to see who got to make the first powered flight.
In the 1920's the surplus of pilots and airplanes meant there was not much of a premium on either. Airmail contracts had as high as a 80% mortality rate - since one pilot who refused to fly in dangerous conditions could easily be replaced by a more daring pilot.
Also, airline operations developed a seniority system for promotion. Like Democracy, the seniority system has flaws, but it is the best solution for the problem of deciding who gets better trips, the left seat, etc...
Due to the seniority system pilots are tied to their employers. The most stunning example is the Delta pilot who earned nearly $200,000 before being furloughed, who now earns $19,000 at ASA as a First Officer and who is grateful to fly.
In comparison, at my former job I was worth $60 to $80K at any employer I cared to work for. Changing companies often was the track to promotion. As a consultant that number could go as high as $250,000 (wish I had realized that then!)
Because of the fact that we can not change jobs without loss of seniority, pay and prestige, we Pilots are uniquely partnered with our employers. Therefore it is important that we fight to improve the standards where we work. Unlike the President of the Company - we are the Company!
It is natural for those pilots paying to learn to envy those who get paid to fly. However, how excited would you be to learn this profession if there was no "profession" for you to enjoy once you got here? Sure the flying is fun, but there are also a lot of long hours, getting tired, missing the beautiful girl at home in your bed, hours of studying for checkrides, the fear of losing your medical, staying in Hotels where the mold, or food, or water, make you ill and the terrifying fear that you screwed something up that could cost you your certification. Believe me you have not lived until you get Montezuma's revenge in the middle of a 5 day.
Also, there is the issue of training. I've got post graduate degrees and professional certification outside of the aviation industry - the EMB120 initial training was by far, at least 200% more difficult than any other endeavor I've ever undertaken. Candidly, it was not worth what I got paid to fly that thing.
In exchange for doing my level best to keep the airline safe and running on time I want a house, a reliable car and the ability to take the aforementioned beautiful girl to a dinner and a movie. Why would any of the "quit yer bitchin'" posters on this board want anything else?
Conquest Driver
Active member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2003
- Posts
- 43
Flying is Flying
If you are flying part 91 like I am or part 121 like I used to, it is all the same. It all depends on your point of view and what is acceptable to you personally. If you are brand new to aviation anything will be acceptable and that is the cause of much of the anger and frustration on this board. It seems the older pilots who have been flying forever find nothing acceptable, this is also a cuase of frustration and anger/bitterness.
No matter what you do for a living their are always things you are not going to like about your job. If you got into this profession to get rich you are in for a wake-up call. I agree completely that people should be allowed to make a good life for themselves flying airplanes but it's not always going to be possible.
Having a back up plan is all you can do. The only thing you can count on in this industry is your ability to change and adapt. A guy I used to fly with is a master plumber. He got all his certifications while flying the line for a living. He is one guy who is truly prepared for Chapter 7, retirement etc. It's not that hard to learn a trade/skill with all the time off most of us have. However, I am single with no kids so I am sure the married with kids people on here will disagree. I just think we all have to many options to be so unhappy and frustrated everyday.
CD
If you are flying part 91 like I am or part 121 like I used to, it is all the same. It all depends on your point of view and what is acceptable to you personally. If you are brand new to aviation anything will be acceptable and that is the cause of much of the anger and frustration on this board. It seems the older pilots who have been flying forever find nothing acceptable, this is also a cuase of frustration and anger/bitterness.
No matter what you do for a living their are always things you are not going to like about your job. If you got into this profession to get rich you are in for a wake-up call. I agree completely that people should be allowed to make a good life for themselves flying airplanes but it's not always going to be possible.
Having a back up plan is all you can do. The only thing you can count on in this industry is your ability to change and adapt. A guy I used to fly with is a master plumber. He got all his certifications while flying the line for a living. He is one guy who is truly prepared for Chapter 7, retirement etc. It's not that hard to learn a trade/skill with all the time off most of us have. However, I am single with no kids so I am sure the married with kids people on here will disagree. I just think we all have to many options to be so unhappy and frustrated everyday.
CD
belchfire
unpredictable member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2003
- Posts
- 27,771
I love my job. I went to where I am now cause I could get 1000hrs turbine pic in two-two and a half years and move on.
things have changed, and I have to lump it for a few more years
to see if things are going to get better.
Just like entertainment and sports. for everyone that gets that $200K/yr. job, there are a thousand of us standing in line.
I just wish that our management would live up to what they promised when I signed on...they aren't. If I lie to them, they
could fire me...what happens to them when they lie to the employees?
It isn't only aviation...there really isn't a "good" business to be in
right now.
things have changed, and I have to lump it for a few more years
to see if things are going to get better.
Just like entertainment and sports. for everyone that gets that $200K/yr. job, there are a thousand of us standing in line.
I just wish that our management would live up to what they promised when I signed on...they aren't. If I lie to them, they
could fire me...what happens to them when they lie to the employees?
It isn't only aviation...there really isn't a "good" business to be in
right now.
treetopflyer
stewed screwed tatooed
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2002
- Posts
- 203
jet newbie
Member
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2003
- Posts
- 7
100LL... Again!
youwantapieceofme??
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Posts
- 1,533
FMR_RGNL_PLT
Active member
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2003
- Posts
- 34
Morning all, I have a little bit to add to all of the fine posts on this thread.
I agree with those who are tired of hearing all of the people who are "insulted" that they have to fly with relatively low time pilots at the regional level.........
Its purely a case of sour grapes. When I went through my regional training I would hear guys make snide remarks about my supposed lack of what they considered "quality experience". But you know what, I did better than most of them in ground school and did very well in the sim, go figure!
The bottom line is, if the guys who are on here whining about low time pilots had been given the opportunity to jump to a regional when THEY had low time they would have done it! Thus, I think it is pure HYPOCRISY for those who, "had to fly freight at night and blah, blah, blah....." to complain about those of us who were fortunate enough to make it to a regional with relatively low time.
Just my 2 cents.........
I agree with those who are tired of hearing all of the people who are "insulted" that they have to fly with relatively low time pilots at the regional level.........
Its purely a case of sour grapes. When I went through my regional training I would hear guys make snide remarks about my supposed lack of what they considered "quality experience". But you know what, I did better than most of them in ground school and did very well in the sim, go figure!
The bottom line is, if the guys who are on here whining about low time pilots had been given the opportunity to jump to a regional when THEY had low time they would have done it! Thus, I think it is pure HYPOCRISY for those who, "had to fly freight at night and blah, blah, blah....." to complain about those of us who were fortunate enough to make it to a regional with relatively low time.
Just my 2 cents.........
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
