AMR pilots say not so fast

[Russ]

Its disingenious of you to look for WO pilots to help share the pain in the manner you ask. Delta pilots gave token support at sharing the wealth to its regionals when times were good. A five percent cut of a 120's FO pay is cutting into meat, the same to a D pilot means much different.

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

First of all, not everyone hates each other, come on now. I don't hate ASA pilots and rampers---I don't even hate the majority of Comair pilots. Most of us hate Comair's MEC, and some of his cronies. That's about it. As far as "sharing the pain"---I think that is a logical thing to do. You said you did not get major raises when we got or UAL + 1% contract. You know as well as I do that we negotiate separately. And, just because your portion of the company is doing well right now, the RJ's that DELTA bought for you was bought from the large amount of money Mainline made in the late 90's. We were the ones pulling in most of the cash then, and a lot of that money is buying your RJ's. To say that you too don't have a vested interest in this company doing well is wrong. The managers are not going to pull this carrier into Chap 11------yes they protected themselves----but they also have a lot to lose if they do. Fred Reid and Joe Kolshack said yesterday in Dallas that they had no intention of going Chap 11.
They said we had enough cash on hand, and more if we needed it. I think they were embarrassed about the Exec Pension thing, and don't want to lose all of the options they have either in a Chap 11. The War is almost over, and the summer flying is around the corner. We will gain back a lot of passengers, and we will watch the other airlines crumble---especially those with lots of Asian flights that are getting hit with SARS. In the mean time, we will give back something to the company---and we might tie it to everyone, including DCI, giving a little. Your DCI president will do whatever Leo says. Let's all give alittle to save MAMA Delta some cash. Do you have a problem with that?

Bye Bye-----General Lee

 

[Palerider957]

Concessions from the regionals is laughable,---absoluetly rediculous. It's good flame bait for this board, but little more.

Come on General, when you have a group that is b-a-r-e-l-y getting by on crackers and cheese, they can't give more...not one bit. You probably made in a month what I made in a year my first year. I still have credit card debt, et. al to pay off from that first year.

I will NOT vote for any concessions, no matter what picture the company paints, I'll GLADLY walk the picket line before I except a pay reduction....I'll say it again, concessions for regional pilots is TOTALLY absurd.

If signifigant concession are forced on us, I'll go tend bar (like in college) make more money, have better benefits, have a "line," and probably less stress.

Concessions!!!! I think I hurt myself laughing....

 

[AA717driver]

Wow!

And I thought the AA pilot group was dicked up! TC

 

[surplus1]

You know as well as I do that we negotiate separately. And, just because your portion of the company is doing well right now, the RJ's that DELTA bought for you was bought from the large amount of money Mainline made in the late 90's.

Like you just said "we negotiate separately." Like you all said earlier and continue to say until you want something from us, we are a "separate company." How come now that we are profitable and you are not you want us to "share the pain". Why should we share your pain? Do you ever and have you ever shared your wealth or for that matter anything else? The answer is NO. You have shared nothing. As a matter of fact all you have ever tried to do is take from us for yourselves.

As you and your friends point out, the Company is not in any particular danger, when compared to others. The only thing wrong is that you people priced yourselves out of the market. You didn't need our help to do that and didn't want it. You also showed little interest when we tried to improve our own lot. You told us then, like you tell us now, "we negotiate separately". So why all of a sudden are you asking us to help you negotiate yourselves back into the market? Go ahead and negotiate separately, like you always have. It's what you do best. Just don't try to negotiate for us. We can do that ourselves.

We were the ones pulling in most of the cash then, and a lot of that money is buying your RJ's.

Do you really believe the garbage you put out or do you just like to antagonise for the fun of it? The RJs that Comair flys are the RJs that Comair bought before Delta bought Comair. Delta didn't buy them for us, Delta bought them from us which, by the way, we didn't ask you to do, didn't want you to do and regret that you did. It happened and we're living with it. You will have to learn to do the same. Just spare me the "we bought your airplanes" crap. You didn't and you know it. Any aircraft that have been ordered for Comair since we were bought can be paid for with the money that WE generate, just like they were paid for before we were acquired.

To say that you too don't have a vested interest in this company doing well is wrong.

Yes, we now have a vested interest in this Company doing well. That is no thanks to Delta pilots. As a matter of fact it is in spite of Delta pilots. The only thing Delta pilots have ever done is try to keep us from having an interest in the Company. Therefore you should keep it in perspective. Our interest is in the Company, not in the Delta pilot group. We are a subsidiary of Delta, Inc., but we are not a subsidiary of the Delta pilots. That's something that seems to escape you and you need to get it straight.

We are contributing to the Company's bottom line and have done so consistently, except for our strike at Comair (from which we have recovered), which was totally unnecessary and cost a lot of money thanks only to a series of bad decisions on the part of Delta management. It was Delta's fault exclusively and a huge waste of the Company's money. Notwithstanding, we are again contributing in a positive way, with profitable operations, positive cash flows and a net gain. We are an asset.

In contrast, your group is not doing well and right now you are not contributing to the bottom line. You therefore are a liability at present. If that liability needs to be reduced, then YOU need to reduce it. When you are contributing again, you can go back to the status quo. There is no need for us to make up any part of your drain on the Company. Actually if it were not for what we contribute, your drain on the bottom line would be far greater than it is and then you would be quite similar to AA.

The positive contributions generated by ASA and Comair are a significant part of why the Company is not doing as poorly as it would be, if we were not around. You should be thanking us instead of always trying to eliminate us or asking us to help pay your way.

YOU need to "give a little" to help the Company, so go ahead and do it and stop trying to make others share your responsibilities, when they are not part of the burden.

If and when our activities represent a drain on the Company's bottom line, that will be the time for us to consider concessions. The fact that YOU are a drain on the Company is certainly not a reason for us to consider doing that. Like you said, "we negotiate separately."

That's the way you wanted it and that's the way you got it. So deal with your own problems and leave us alone to deal with ours. The answer to your final question is YES, I do have a problem with what you propose.

 

[Freight Dog]

Surplus,

How do you feel about DALPA scope now that it protects you from lowballers like Mesa due to the fact that they fly aircraft with more than 70 seats?

Looking forward to your answer..

Best regards!


FD

 

[sleepy]

General,

Since we all bargin seperately with DAL, well actually we bargain with ASA or Comair not DAL, why do you want to tie any concessions that DAL pilots give to concessions by the WO employees? Isn't that in effect bargaining for the WO's?

You all had the chance to bargain for the ASA and Comair pilots, but you voted down the PID. The rest is history.

As others have said, you are the only pilot group who's costs are out of line with your peers. Our costs at ASA and Comair are about equal with our peers. We are making money, you are losing money. Logically, you are the ones that should give (if necessary). I really don't think you should give back a penny to Ma DAL, but that is your business.

The problem with you mainline pilots is that you are a bunch of hypocrites:

1. Don't want to fly RJ's, give them to express carriers, until you lose your job, then they look pretty good (J4J).

2. Don't want RJ pilots on your list (voted the PID down), we are seperate companies with no operational integration, but you want to tie your concessions to us taking concessions.

3. Want to put RJ on mainline, fine. When you do we will file another PID. Lets see that hypocracy again.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Do you ever and have you ever shared your wealth or for that matter anything else? The answer is NO. You have shared nothing. As a matter of fact all you have ever tried to do is take from us for yourselves.

I really don't care to get too involved, as most of you already know how I feel. However, I couldn't let the above go.

We have allowed you 49% of our flying!!! You have benefitted from one of the most liberal scope clause in the industry, and are growing faster than almost any other airline. You are doing so only because we have allowed it. I think it was a mistake, and would have much preferred to see that growth at mainline through onelist (with a staple), but find it pretty ironic to be told that it is we who are trying to take things from you. I am furloughed, and guys who were CFIs a month ago are doing my flying only because we have "shared the wealth." I am not going to propose that we have done so out of the goodness of our hearts, but the fact remains that you have directly benefitted from our actions, and continue to do so.

P.S.
Unlike you, no Delta pilot has ever worked to take airplanes that you are already flying. You and the other rjdc supporters cannot make the same claim. I know, you look at it differently (seemingly ignoring the language in the very lawsuit you support). I just thought you should know that I view you accusing us of trying to steal what's yours as the height of hypocracy.

 

[General Lee]

Surplus and Sleepy,

Man alive, you guys have team spirit! Your team, that is. First of all, without Delta feed---your airline or airlines would be toast. We could easily get Mesa or Chit-talk to do your jobs, and we have in Florida. Delta could sell off your portions and bring on Mesa for a premium. Who knows? Maybe they will do that---all to save a $. Our furloughs will eventually be back, and we will grow, especially if UAL tanks. We may be "over priced" as you say, and we will take some cuts to bring us down alittle--but we will still be the highest paid. We will try to take some of those CRJ70's and most definitely the 90 or 100 seaters---so unfortunately your growth in the 70 seat range will stop. So, maybe you are right---you need that pay. We probably will be left holding the bag, and no doubt the Comair pilots will not get squat from us--hiring etc---in the future. But hey, that's the way you want it---alrighty then!!! We'll see what happens.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[trainerjet]

Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta
DALPA, DALPA, DALPA, DALPA, DALPA, DALPA, DALPA, DALPA
Comair, Comair, Comair, Comair, Comair, Comair, Comair, Comair
ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA
Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta
DALPA, DALPA, DALPA, DALPA, DALPA,, DALPA, DALPA, DALPA
Comair, Comair, Comair, Comair, Comair, Comair, Comair, Comair
ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA, ASA
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH

AD NAUSEUM..................

 

[sleepy]

Surplus and Sleepy,

Man alive, you guys have team spirit! Your team, that is. First of all, without Delta feed---your airline or airlines would be toast. We could easily get Mesa or Chit-talk to do your jobs, and we have in Florida. Delta could sell off your portions and bring on Mesa for a premium. Who knows? Maybe they will do that---all to save a $. Our furloughs will eventually be back, and we will grow, especially if UAL tanks. We may be "over priced" as you say, and we will take some cuts to bring us down alittle--but we will still be the highest paid. We will try to take some of those CRJ70's and most definitely the 90 or 100 seaters---so unfortunately your growth in the 70 seat range will stop. So, maybe you are right---you need that pay. We probably will be left holding the bag, and no doubt the Comair pilots will not get squat from us--hiring etc---in the future. But hey, that's the way you want it---alrighty then!!! We'll see what happens.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Unfortunantly, DAL could get someone else to do all of our jobs for less. That is what the portfolio concept is all about. Don't forget, you are in the portfolio too. A little bankruptcy, and the next thing you know DAL pilots lose all of their scope protection.

Why don't you DAL guy ever complain about your liberal international code share (all of those widebody jobs going to French pilots), it's always about ASA and Comair isn't it?

I guess we don't really feel like part of the team because we are not treated like part of the team. DAL enjoys our profitsm (in good times and bad), but when the time comes to be rewarded for all of our hard work; oh no, Mesa or Chit could do your job for less. They could and would do your job for less too.

Tell me General, after we were purchased by DAL, which group of DAL employees welcomed us to the team by filing a grievance to keep our employees from having DOH pass privileges?

Also, you never answered me on the PID. Which Group of DAL employees had a chance to control all ASA and Comair pilots after we were purchased by DAL, but chose not to (BTW, had you approved the PID, and most of us ASA and Comair pilots were on furlough right now instead of your 1200 pilots, how hard would you be working to get us back?)?

Also, you never did say how you could tie concessions at ASA and Comair to concessions at DAL mainline if we are, as you say, seperate bargaining units of ALPA? If you are able to do it, it should make the RJDC crowd pretty happy.

I hope we continue to offer your furloughed pilots a job, but I see little use in dealing with your pilot group in any other way. We have been there before.