American pilots weren’t allowed to strike, so instead they did something clever

[Bringupthebird]

Even the folks who live in PHL are stranded in PHL.

Seriously, if the company asking this question in a interview didn't hire me because of the answer I gave, so be it. They'd like the answer less when it actually happened.

 

[SplitBar]

It's easy for some to say here that they would play hard ball and write up the nav light but in the heat of the battle I highly doubt more than a few would write up the nav light. It's an easy oversight on a pre flight and the FAA isn't going to hang you if you tell them..."hey, I didn't notice it on the prefligth". It's one thing to ignore an inop fire test, but an inop nav light. In my best Chris Carter voice, C-mon Man !!!

 

[Whine Lover]

What would your answer be if it was YOUR last leg home on Christmas Eve and your family was waiting on you for dinner?

Oh...well, then we'd just blast off and go!



NOT.


I might make a second phone call and ask when MX was going to show up...

Here's a little story Folks:

So my buddy, an America West Captain at the time, has his co-pilot give him a wink and nod about "maybe that belly antenna looks like something bumped into it and bent it a little".

Last leg home, wx moving in, bad delays if they don't get out, girlfriend waiting to see him.....standard stuff.

Well, just between the two they agreed " it looks okay to go right ? ".....RIGHT.

Long story short, a mechanic notices it is slightly damaged at the next station. It's not in the book.

They don't want it on their backs, a phone call or two is made and they find a mechanic at the last station who says " Oh yeah, we noticed that. The crew thought it wasn't damaged enough to put it in the book. "

A few weeks later, an FAA audit raises a few eyebrows over some paperwork: - MX Log Entry " Upon landing in XYZ lower VHF antenna..."

Yeah....

A few more questions and my buddy is nailed for " departing with a known discrepancy. "

Y'all do whatever ya' want....I've been 121 for 25 years, 15 at a major and the rest as a freight dog. I know how things "work".

But experience and old age are some great teachers of simple lessons learned.

Whine

 

[SplitBar]

Oh...well, then we'd just blast off and go!



NOT.


I might make a second phone call and ask when MX was going to show up...

Here's a little story Folks:

So my buddy, an America West Captain at the time, has his co-pilot give him a wink and nod about "maybe that belly antenna looks like something bumped into it and bent it a little".

Last leg home, wx moving in, bad delays if they don't get out, girlfriend waiting to see him.....standard stuff.

Well, just between the two they agreed " it looks okay to go right ? ".....RIGHT.

Long story short, a mechanic notices it is slightly damaged at the next station. It's not in the book.

They don't want it on their backs, a phone call or two is made and they find a mechanic at the last station who says " Oh yeah, we noticed that. The crew thought it wasn't damaged enough to put it in the book. "

A few weeks later, an FAA audit raises a few eyebrows over some paperwork: - MX Log Entry " Upon landing in XYZ lower VHF antenna..."

Yeah....

A few more questions and my buddy is nailed for " departing with a known discrepancy. "

Y'all do whatever ya' want....I've been 121 for 25 years, 15 at a major and the rest as a freight dog. I know how things "work".

But experience and old age are some great teachers of simple lessons learned.

Whine

So it wasn't just between the 2 pilots. A mechanic was also in the loop. There is no mechanic in the loop in the Xmas Nav light scenario. Easy pre flight oversight.

 

[airgator]

Sully wouldn't write it up.

 

[Whine Lover]

Why would you not just defer it? Then you would still depart on time and all is well.

Obviously, yes...if it is a crew deferrable item per the MEL, bing-bang-boom and we are outta' there!

However , the original question is posed to assume that this is an item that requires maintenance personnel ( who have gone home ) to correct the problem.


WL

 

[Whine Lover]

Airgator:

You have perfectly described the issue we run into on a daily basis. We (Pilots/FEs) are not allowed to use our discretion when there is a procedure in place to deal with the exact issue you mentioned. The first casualty of specificity in aviation is reasonableness. When you fly under any part of the 14 CFR (91,121, 135, etc) there are approved procedures in place that hold the DOM (Director of Maintenance), PIC and Dispatcher (if applicable) accountable. The FAA usually shows no mercy for willfully operating in contravention to an approved maintenance / flight ops procedure. And can you blame the FAA ? They are held accountable to the DOT, Congress and the POTUS.

Now back to you example, the burned out NAV light. Will it bring down the airplane or contribute to a collision ? I doubt it but unless the MEL gives relief for it being out, the airplane is not moving with my signature on the Release without me being able to look the FAA and my boss in the eye and state that I believe the aircraft is airworthy.

What we do in the civilian world is not combat flying. It is elective air transportation. When weapons are pointed at the aircraft, then the priorities change. Until then, I will follow the rules/regs to the best of my ability while I am entrusted with the safety of the PAX, fellow crew and people on the ground.

Exactly.

Nicely stated.


WL

 

[Whine Lover]

"..hey, I didn't notice it on the preflight".

This works well...IF you are the ONLY ONE who made the "oversight".

Most Crewmembers talk to the other guy and they jointly agree on a course of action.

OOPS. Now there's TWO people in the equation....TWO people willfully violating FAR's.

Ever watch how easy it is to trip up TWO criminals trying to tell the same story when you separate them and ask a few questions?

Geez...it's just so much easier to play by the simple rules we are given and then nobody has to keep "their story straight".

I think my Dad taught me that simple truth when I was around five years old....





WL

 

[SplitBar]

"..hey, I didn't notice it on the preflight".

This works well...IF you are the ONLY ONE who made the "oversight".

Most Crewmembers talk to the other guy and they jointly agree on a course of action.

OOPS. Now there's TWO people in the equation....TWO people willfully violating FAR's.

Ever watch how easy it is to trip up TWO criminals trying to tell the same story when you separate them and ask a few questions?

Geez...it's just so much easier to play by the simple rules we are given and then nobody has to keep "their story straight".

I think my Dad taught me that simple truth when I was around five years old....





WL

There is a difference between simple truth and going outside of the box a little bit. Big picture & common sense stuff, try it sometime. As stated earlier, if everyone operated under a 100% inability to be flexible when it comes to non safety related rules the airlines would come to a crippling hault.

 

[Fox-Tree]

American pilots weren’t allowed to strike over the contract voiding, so instead they did something clever: They started following the rules.

So you mean that, American Pilots were not following the rules?? All of a sudden they're upset with the company and the rules get enforced. it's that clever??

"Rules" have a pretty broad definition. It seems like the media, the flying public, management and even most on this thread are focusing on the maintenance/write up side of following the rules.

What has an equal if not larger role in this whole effort is the pilots following the "rules" regarding what their actual duties involve. It's in most pilots nature to act when they see a train wreck developing. We almost always see this stuff coming first - we're on the front lines. Whether it's a lack of a fuel truck, an impending duty day issue or any number of potential problems, we want to get that info to someone who needs to know so they can head off the problem before it develops. Technically, that's not our job.

If we just fly the plane and do our jobs exactly as defined at our company, nothing more, nothing less (i.e. follow the rules/contract) everything will grind to a crawl very quickly. This power we hold is one of the most effective tools in our kit.