American pilots weren’t allowed to strike, so instead they did something clever

[airgator]

IT'S A NAV LIGHT! You're the captain, and you're gonna time out and go to the hotel and strand 100+ pax, YGTBSM.

 

[scoreboardII]

Yes.

The pilots are not running the airline anymore, good for them, or are you on managements side?

 

[UnstableAviator]

Trying to have a reasonable discussion about the schizophrenic world in which we operate is pretty much impossible. EVERY airplane for EVERY departure has something that can be written up. Just like the FAA likes to do a C-check at the gate and begin discovering items most pilots rarely even notice.

If I "just happen" to discover the NAV light is out 1 minute prior to departure then the call goes in, the flight goes late. Or if a yoke boot snap is broken, start/stop selector knob slightly loose, etc etc. There will always be discretion on the part of the PIC.

 

[Quimby]

IT'S A NAV LIGHT! You're the captain, and you're gonna time out and go to the hotel and strand 100+ pax, YGTBSM.

Are you yelling?

 

[PSL]

Airgator:

You have perfectly described the issue we run into on a daily basis. We (Pilots/FEs) are not allowed to use our discretion when there is a procedure in place to deal with the exact issue you mentioned. The first casualty of specificity in aviation is reasonableness. When you fly under any part of the 14 CFR (91,121, 135, etc) there are approved procedures in place that hold the DOM (Director of Maintenance), PIC and Dispatcher (if applicable) accountable. The FAA usually shows no mercy for willfully operating in contravention to an approved maintenance / flight ops procedure. And can you blame the FAA ? They are held accountable to the DOT, Congress and the POTUS.

Now back to you example, the burned out NAV light. Will it bring down the airplane or contribute to a collision ? I doubt it but unless the MEL gives relief for it being out, the airplane is not moving with my signature on the Release without me being able to look the FAA and my boss in the eye and state that I believe the aircraft is airworthy.

What we do in the civilian world is not combat flying. It is elective air transportation. When weapons are pointed at the aircraft, then the priorities change. Until then, I will follow the rules/regs to the best of my ability while I am entrusted with the safety of the PAX, fellow crew and people on the ground.

 

[GogglesPisano]

IT'S A NAV LIGHT! You're the captain, and you're gonna time out and go to the hotel and strand 100+ pax, YGTBSM.

I'm sure the Feds, and your DO when he is caught in the middle, will be completely understanding.

 

[AA717driver]

IT'S A NAV LIGHT! You're the captain, and you're gonna time out and go to the hotel and strand 100+ pax, YGTBSM.

Ignore it, get caught and the Feds (with the help and full cooperation of the company) prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law.

Why? Because you demonsrtated a disregard for the FAR's and the safety of your passengers. The Fed needs a promotion and the company needs a hostage. They both tacitly thank you for delivering your a$$ on a silver platter.

This is a no brainer in today's litigious world. In 1985, I wouldn't have thought twice about calling it "extremely dim" and carrying on. Now, NFW.

TC

 

[Busdriver320]

And yet under a mitt Romney administration, the economy does better, more people are able to fly to Disneyland, your company does better, you upgrade quicker, you get a better contract, you make more $$$, you are able to buy Melvin the GI Joe with the kungfu grip, Momma is happy, she eats more, gets fat, you lose interest, knock up the babysitter, marry her, dump Momma and live happily ever after.
Ironic, eh?

This is the thinking in middle class America that will ultimately doom middle class Americans. Look at Romney's (and his ilk) history. They hate unions, they outsource jobs, they lower wages. Get a clue, you won't HAVE a union to "get a better contract" if Romney wins this election. Their ultimate goal is to make unionism illegal, they may say otherwise because they still need some of what little union vote is left, but why do they keep proposing legislation that makes it harder to organize and harder to remain organized?
People making just enough money to put a roof over their heads and feed their kids don't buy airline tickets, and Romney and his kind are flying their own jets or being flown around by Netjets, Options, Flexjet, etc. Trickle down is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on society, yet people still believe it when there's 30 years of proof showing its only trickled UP.

 

[The Drizzle]

Trickle down is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on society, yet people still believe it when there's 30 years of proof showing its only trickled UP.

Just because it hasn't worked yet, doesn't mean we shouldn't keep giving it a try. U S A U S A U S A

 

[se1776]

I use to fly the Dehavilland Dash8. On the windshield there are two spot lights that are use to inspect the windshield wipers for ice accumulation at night time. The MEL will not allow us to dispatch at night into icing condition without that light.
I remember that it was our last leg home at night, out of PHL to SYR in the winter.
There was a report of icing conditions along the route. If we cancel that flight, 37 angry passengers were going to be stranded in PHL.
Just remember, no one will notice that the light is burned out, but according to the MEL it was a grounding item.
Now as a successful captain, what would you do?? Ground the airplane, or fly with a grounding item??

 

[Bringupthebird]

Even the folks who live in PHL are stranded in PHL.

Seriously, if the company asking this question in a interview didn't hire me because of the answer I gave, so be it. They'd like the answer less when it actually happened.

 

[SplitBar]

It's easy for some to say here that they would play hard ball and write up the nav light but in the heat of the battle I highly doubt more than a few would write up the nav light. It's an easy oversight on a pre flight and the FAA isn't going to hang you if you tell them..."hey, I didn't notice it on the prefligth". It's one thing to ignore an inop fire test, but an inop nav light. In my best Chris Carter voice, C-mon Man !!!

 

[Whine Lover]

What would your answer be if it was YOUR last leg home on Christmas Eve and your family was waiting on you for dinner?

Oh...well, then we'd just blast off and go!



NOT.


I might make a second phone call and ask when MX was going to show up...

Here's a little story Folks:

So my buddy, an America West Captain at the time, has his co-pilot give him a wink and nod about "maybe that belly antenna looks like something bumped into it and bent it a little".

Last leg home, wx moving in, bad delays if they don't get out, girlfriend waiting to see him.....standard stuff.

Well, just between the two they agreed " it looks okay to go right ? ".....RIGHT.

Long story short, a mechanic notices it is slightly damaged at the next station. It's not in the book.

They don't want it on their backs, a phone call or two is made and they find a mechanic at the last station who says " Oh yeah, we noticed that. The crew thought it wasn't damaged enough to put it in the book. "

A few weeks later, an FAA audit raises a few eyebrows over some paperwork: - MX Log Entry " Upon landing in XYZ lower VHF antenna..."

Yeah....

A few more questions and my buddy is nailed for " departing with a known discrepancy. "

Y'all do whatever ya' want....I've been 121 for 25 years, 15 at a major and the rest as a freight dog. I know how things "work".

But experience and old age are some great teachers of simple lessons learned.

Whine

 

[SplitBar]

Oh...well, then we'd just blast off and go!



NOT.


I might make a second phone call and ask when MX was going to show up...

Here's a little story Folks:

So my buddy, an America West Captain at the time, has his co-pilot give him a wink and nod about "maybe that belly antenna looks like something bumped into it and bent it a little".

Last leg home, wx moving in, bad delays if they don't get out, girlfriend waiting to see him.....standard stuff.

Well, just between the two they agreed " it looks okay to go right ? ".....RIGHT.

Long story short, a mechanic notices it is slightly damaged at the next station. It's not in the book.

They don't want it on their backs, a phone call or two is made and they find a mechanic at the last station who says " Oh yeah, we noticed that. The crew thought it wasn't damaged enough to put it in the book. "

A few weeks later, an FAA audit raises a few eyebrows over some paperwork: - MX Log Entry " Upon landing in XYZ lower VHF antenna..."

Yeah....

A few more questions and my buddy is nailed for " departing with a known discrepancy. "

Y'all do whatever ya' want....I've been 121 for 25 years, 15 at a major and the rest as a freight dog. I know how things "work".

But experience and old age are some great teachers of simple lessons learned.

Whine

So it wasn't just between the 2 pilots. A mechanic was also in the loop. There is no mechanic in the loop in the Xmas Nav light scenario. Easy pre flight oversight.

 

[airgator]

Sully wouldn't write it up.